00:12 asumu: eli: something like "The following reply was made to PR all/13446 (noted by Gnats)" and a link
00:13 asumu: Also, woo. I got net/dns to return IPv6 AAAA records.
00:13 asumu does not look forward to implementing IPv6 address parsing though
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00:48 shriphani: Hi. I did a raco link on my #lang. When I try to use it, I get an error: dynamic-require: name is not provided
00:51 shriphani: raco link didn't complain...
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01:43 dyoo: shriphani: do you have the #lang somewhere where I can investigate?
01:44 dyoo: shriphani: If I understand correctly: raco link does not do anything but tell the module resolver how to find your package; it wouldn't trigger module evaluation.  The error you're reporting sounds like a runtime error.
01:46 shriphani: dyoo: one sec.
01:46 shriphani: I'll put it up on a pastebin
01:46 dyoo: ok
01:46 dyoo: by the way
01:46 dyoo: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/reader.html?q=sexp#%28mod-path._s-exp%29 might be relevant
01:46 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/bg3xvyt
01:46 dyoo: If your language is s-expression based, you don't even need to go through the raco link stuff
01:47 shriphani: dyoo: http://pastebin.ca/2327269
01:47 shriphani: it is at-exp based.
01:47 dyoo: ah, ok, looking closely at the syntax module reader stuff...
01:47 dyoo: wait.
01:48 dyoo: something looks off
01:48 dyoo: Where's the name of the language?
01:48 dyoo: for example, in
01:49 dyoo: http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/syntax_module-reader.html
01:49 dyoo: near the bottom of the dollar-racket.rkt example
01:49 shriphani: dyoo: it is shriphani
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01:49 shriphani: so the file in collects/ is at collects/shriphani/lang/reader.rkt
01:49 shriphani: and I want to load it up as #lang shriphani
01:50 dyoo: you want the language defintions, such as post-body, etc. in a separate module.  Call it collects/shriphani/lang/semantics.rkt
01:51 shriphani: I see
01:51 dyoo: then your reader.rkt should look like
01:51 dyoo: https://gist.github.com/dyoo/5069973
01:52 shriphani: hmm why s-exp ?
01:53 shriphani: shouldn't it be at-exp ?
01:53 dyoo: if your language is at-exp based, you might need to customize the #:read and #:read-syntax parts of the reader.  Instead of the defaults (as my example gist has), you'll probably need to do a little more.  But let's make sure the normal stuff works before going on to the at-exp stuff.. :)
01:54 shriphani: so what I have in reader.rkt right now, it goes into semantics.rkt ?
01:54 dyoo: yeah.
01:55 shriphani: and raco link again ?
01:55 dyoo: no need to raco link again
01:56 dyoo: it remembers taht.
01:56 shriphani: I see.
01:56 shriphani: so I just try to use #lang shriphani ?
01:56 dyoo: yeah, try again
01:56 dyoo: shriphani: dunno if you've already seen this, but: http://hashcollision.org/brainfudge/
01:57 shriphani: dynamic-require: name is not provided
01:57 shriphani: so yeah....
01:57 dyoo: give me a sec.  thinking.  Out of curiosity
01:58 dyoo: what happens if you do: #lang at-exp shriphani/lang/shriphani
01:58 dyoo: That is, let's dodge the reader.rkt stuff for the moment; let's isolate to see if the semantics is the problem.
01:59 shriphani: dyoo: http://pastebin.ca/2327273
01:59 (quit) z1l0g: Quit: That's it for today
01:59 dyoo: ok, better.  I think you've messed up the raco link stuff slightly
01:59 shriphani: I see.
01:59 dyoo: The path that it's reporting is totally wrong.  :)
01:59 shriphani: yea I can see that.
01:59 dyoo: let's fix that.
01:59 shriphani: it is just raco link shriphani isn't it ?
02:00 shriphani: or should it be done in some special directory ?
02:00 dyoo: go up to the parent of your shriphani directory
02:00 dyoo: that is, go in blog-lang
02:00 dyoo: from that directory, you do a 'raco link shriphani'
02:00 dyoo: but we might have to clean up the existing entry
02:00 dyoo: because it's going to conflict.
02:01 dyoo: You'll probably need to do 'raco link -r shriphani' on the directory you accidently did the link on before, to clear it.    Then go ahead and link the right directory
02:03 shriphani: ok.
02:04 shriphani: how do I confirm it is ok now?
02:04 dyoo: Well, let's try it again.  Try running that program with: "#lang at-exp shriphani/lang/shriphani"
02:04 dyoo: and see if we get through this time
02:04 dyoo: I mean #lang at-exp shriphani/lang/semantics
02:05 dyoo: grrr. so many names… :)
02:05 shriphani: /Applications/Racket/collects/shriphani/lang/semantics.rkt:42:0: #%datum: keyword used as an expression
02:05 shriphani: in: #:read
02:05 dyoo: hey, that's better
02:05 dyoo: it's using the right module at least.  :)
02:05 shriphani: so there's a bug in my lang?
02:05 dyoo: remove the #:read and #:read-syntax stuff from that module.
02:05 dyoo: it should just contain:
02:06 dyoo: (give me sec; pasting in gist...)
02:06 dyoo: semantics.rkt should just have: https://gist.github.com/dyoo/5070006
02:09 dyoo: yikes, it's midnight here.  I'd better start walking home soon.  Let me know if it worked though, so I have peace of mind.
02:09 shriphani: standard-module-name-resolver: collection not found
02:09 shriphani: raco link again ?
02:10 dyoo: wait, can you say what you just tried?
02:10 dyoo: Did you do: #lang at-exp shriphani/lang/semantics
02:10 shriphani: that is what I have at the top of test.rkt
02:10 dyoo: what else does test.rkt have?
02:11 shriphani: http://pastebin.ca/2327277
02:11 shriphani: but I still see /Users/shriphani in my stack trace
02:12 dyoo: can you gist the full stack trace?  Let me take a look at the error you're seeing in full.
02:12 shriphani: http://pastebin.ca/2327278
02:13 dyoo: Please try the following: raco link -l
02:13 dyoo: copy and paste what it prints out so we can take a look.
02:14 dyoo: cd
02:14 shriphani: http://pastebin.ca/2327279
02:14 shriphani: that doesn't look good at all
02:14 dyoo: all those look wrong.  :)
02:14 dyoo: Great, so we can fix this.
02:14 dyoo: well, the first looks ok,
02:15 dyoo: huh.  So you can link multiple directories to the same collection?  I didn't know that.
02:16 dyoo: just to make sure, can you do this:  ls -Rl ~/Dropbox/racket-expts/blog-lang/shriphani
02:16 dyoo: let me make sure my expectations on the directory tree structure match reality
02:17 shriphani: I am not even sure how that directory is relevant...
02:18 shriphani: I am not even operating there.
02:18 dyoo: wait.  Isn't that where your semantics.rkt lives?
02:19 dyoo: oh dear.  I may have been giving you the wrong lang line… give me a sec to test something out...
02:19 dyoo: darn it.  I'm an idiot.
02:20 dyoo: I'm so sorry. The line I was giving you is wrong.
02:20 dyoo: it's supposed to be:
02:20 shriphani: my semantics.rkt is in /Applications/Racket/collects/shriphani/lang/semantics.rkt
02:20 dyoo: #lang at-exp s-exp shriphani/lang/semantics
02:20 dyoo: We're doing manually what would have been handled by reader.rkt, so the line is a little long.  My apologies!
02:21 shriphani: that worked !
02:21 dyoo: I'm so sorry that took so long
02:21 shriphani: no worries man. i'm the one keeping you from going home
02:21 dyoo: I completely had forgotten a crucial detail on how at-exp works...
02:21 dyoo: but good, finally, at least it's doing somethign now. :)
02:22 dyoo: The point of the reader is to handle the busy work of that "at exp s-exp shirphani/lang/semantics" business
02:22 shriphani: i see.
02:22 dyoo: but that's something you can do later, after you hammer out the semantics of the language you're building, as polish.
02:23 dyoo: Ok, I can go home with a cleaner conscience now.  :)
02:23 dyoo: Talk to you later1
02:23 dyoo: later!
02:23 shriphani: see ya!
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05:37 yeboot: any examples of Y-combinators in Racket?
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05:40 yeboot: baha, google search flags ftw
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10:15 anonymous97890: Hello everyone! Tell me, please, will I need Common Lisp after I study Racket?
10:15 anonymous97890: can I have any advances?
10:16 anonymous97890: ...except for stable language
10:16 anonymous97890: // it doesn't matter
10:16 anonymous97890: ;; *
10:18 anonymous97890: that*
10:18 soegaard: I'd say no. It never hurts to learn many languages though.
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12:11 offby1: dented42: rudybot printed "??" because he failed to convert a long URL via tinyurl.
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12:31 asumu: Hmm, racket/list really needs `take-while`.
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14:05 mithos28: Well TR's typechecking is exponential
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14:15 asumu: mithos28: that's bad, how do you figure?
14:15 asumu just finished implementing DNS reverse lookup for IPv6 addresses
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14:28 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/c1qkyg
14:28 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 621fc2b Asumu Takikawa: Start to add internal documentation
14:28 RacketCommitBot: racket/master c2e8ef3 Asumu Takikawa: Support querying AAAA records for IPv6
14:28 RacketCommitBot: racket/master cf4c71a Asumu Takikawa: Shorten IPv6 addresses for display
14:28 (part) RacketCommitBot
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16:18 maxigas: is there already a library for converting json to bson?
16:19 maxigas: or is it trivial?
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16:24 Fare: what's bson?
16:24 Fare: a binary format variant of json?
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16:30 dyoo: maxigas: from looking at the spec at http://bsonspec.org/#/specification, this doesn't sound too hard.
16:32 dyoo: for the liitle endianness stuff, Racket provides functions like http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/generic-numbers.html#%28def._%28%28quote._~23~25kernel%29._floating-point-bytes-~3ereal%29%29
16:32 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/a4wpu5t
16:33 dyoo: maxigas: you'll want to be fairly comfortable with byte strings, since this is a binary protocol.  http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/bytestrings.html
16:34 dyoo: but yeah, this seems like a very straightforward thing to write, though I don't see an implementation for it on PLaneT.
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17:15 offby1: Is there a library for converting Macon to bacon?
17:17 eli: asumu: Send me one of these emails, headers and all.
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17:40 SunMoonStar: In an expression (if a a b), does it evaluate a only once, or should I use a let expression?
17:41 offby1: that's two separate questions! :)
17:42 offby1: it will evaluate a _at least_ once.
17:42 offby1: If it's not #f, it will evaluate it again.
17:42 offby1: You probably want (or a b).
17:42 offby1: rudybot: (define (a) (display "A is running!"))
17:42 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
17:42 rudybot: *offby1: Done.
17:42 offby1: rudybot: (if (a) (a) 'b)
17:42 rudybot: *offby1: ; stdout: "A is running!A is running!"
17:42 offby1: rudybot: (or (a) 'b)
17:42 rudybot: *offby1: ; stdout: "A is running!"
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17:43 SunMoonStar: rudybot: i made up this simple example for purpose of the question, i wouldnt actually have a in the true branch, so I don't want or. But thanks this answers my question. I guess this means I need a let expression
17:43 rudybot: SunMoonStar: Im using a mit-scheme .. dunno if that makes any difference .. wouldnt mind seeing how any of them do it
17:44 SunMoonStar: oops, i meant to send that to you offby1
17:44 SunMoonStar: haha
17:45 offby1: SunMoonStar: yeah -- let is a sensible way to "capture" the result of evaluation and then use it willy nilly
17:45 offby1: rudybot: I think you're better off using racket instead of mit-scheme.
17:45 rudybot: *offby1: BTW, I'd be surprised if Chez has no keywords at all, mit-scheme might have them soon due to Joe who suggested implementing them (and Chris didn't object to the addition), ikarus does have a library for doing them and Aziz has no moral objection to them.
17:46 offby1: rudybot: objectivity is subjective.
17:46 rudybot: *offby1: actually it does, if nothing else is an accurate description of the physiologic symptoms of obsession as observed from the point of view of a neurologist or a psychiatrist add to it that it was written hundreds of years before any of those two sciences took root and it's pretty fucking amazing the degree and objectivity of the description
17:46 offby1: rudybot: amazing indeed.
17:46 rudybot: *offby1: I love it how the AMAZING LISP PROGRAMMERS who write emacs can't seem to actually produce any robust code.
17:47 didi: rudybot: You sir... Shame. Shame on you.
17:47 rudybot: didi: thank you much, sir. looks to be just what i wanted. (http://docs.plt-scheme.org/gui/drawing-overview.html)
17:48 soegaard: offby1: Is Aziz still working on Ikarus?
17:50 offby1: Good Lord, I haven't thought about Aziz and Ikarus since a Scheme conference in Portland five years ago.
17:53 soegaard: I met Aziz in Freiburg. It's just that the webpage for Ikarus is dead.
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18:04 soegaard: Nearly a 100 tasks done! http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Racket
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18:14 offby1: wow, is the goal of that site to describe typical ways of doing things in every language?
18:14 soegaard: yes
18:15 asumu: soegaard: woo
18:15 soegaard: woo?
18:15 asumu: Oh, on 100 rosetta code tasks.
18:16 asumu: I should've put a ! there
18:16 soegaard: ok!!!
18:16 offby1: obsessive
18:16 soegaard: I miss a counter on the ones, not implemented:  http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Reports:Tasks_not_implemented_in_Racket
18:18 offby1: wow, that's a big list.
18:18 soegaard: Some languages cheat. For example on this page: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Nth_root
18:19 soegaard: The description says that one must implement the algorithm on the Wikipedia page, but many just use a builtin nth root.
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18:19 offby1: heh.  And at http://rosettacode.org/wiki/HTTPS/Authenticated#Python I see they're just deferring to a browser library, which smells like cheating.
18:20 maxigas: dyoo: thanks i am looking at that page atm too
18:20 maxigas: i am not confortable with byte strings but maybe i can cook something up. :D
18:21 (quit) mizu_no_oto: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
18:22 soegaard: I think it is fair to use a library for https. I have a hunch that the protocol is complicated.
18:23 soegaard: The Mathematica solution on the other hand. That's cheating. http://rosettacode.org/wiki/HTTPS/Authenticated#Mathematica
18:23 offby1: heh
18:23 offby1: 'course that's what most of us do, most of the time, in most languages :)
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18:24 offby1: puttin' the password on the command line.  Nice.
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18:28 asumu: Hehe, I just realized I can pretend Racket is like C or Java and ; terminate all of my "statements"
18:28 asumu: Another fun obfuscation.
18:30 rich1: is there a reason a lot of the built in functions take lists instead of streams ?
18:30 didi: Another fun one: Create a macro but evaluate forms from right to left.
18:31 asumu: rich1: tradition and backwards compatibility.
18:31 asumu: I agree it'd be better if they works on streams/sequences.
18:31 asumu: *worked
18:31 asumu: Also, a technical point: sequence and stream functions have a subtly different semantics.
18:31 rich1: asumu: righto just wondering
18:32 rich1: sequence?
18:32 asumu: A sequence is anything you can do a `for` loop over, basically.
18:32 asumu: rudybot: (in-range 1 100)
18:32 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
18:32 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: #<stream>
18:32 asumu: Hmm, bad example
18:32 offby1: heh
18:32 asumu: rudybot: (sequence-map add1 (in-range 1 100))
18:32 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: #(struct:stream {eager . #(struct:stream-pare #(struct:stream {lazy . #<procedure>}) #(struct:stream {lazy . #<procedure>}))})
18:32 offby1: *snicker*
18:32 asumu: Sigh.
18:33 offby1: 'course I don't know how to easily convert a stream to an array or antying
18:33 rich1: sequence-fold - i think that might be what i was looking for
18:33 asumu: rudybot: (in-vector #(1 2 3))
18:33 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: #<sequence>
18:33 asumu: There we go.
18:34 rich1: because i have large lists and a huge chunk of time is spent on GC
18:34 didi: rudybot: (vector? (in-vector #(1 2 3)))
18:34 rudybot: didi: your sandbox is ready
18:34 rudybot: didi: ; Value: #f
18:35 rich1: i rewrote my algorithm to use foldl - which saved alot of time both in user code and GC - and i thought it would be faster using streams, but contract violations occur
18:35 (quit) mithos28: Quit: mithos28
18:36 didi: rich1: AFAIU, streams are not exactly lightweight. At least, not the ones I know how to implement.
18:37 rich1: didi: it's probably me misunderstanding then - i thought there might be a way of not constructing lists when it's not needed
18:37 rich1: in 1 place i'm constructing a list to call max on it
18:38 soegaard: For small lists it is faster to generate the list.
18:38 (join) RacketCommitBot
18:38 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/qntUXg
18:38 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 312792a Asumu Takikawa: Set the socket protocol family...
18:38 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 855ce45 Asumu Takikawa: Fix docs on `udp-open-socket`
18:38 (part) RacketCommitBot
18:38 firefux: is HtDP2e the place to start with Racket?
18:38 rich1: ok good to know
18:38 soegaard: Note that a "small" list can be rather large.
18:38 didi: rich1: If the length of the list is an issue, you can maybe iterate over each element instead of generating the whole list first.
18:38 rich1: 10^6?
18:39 didi: It's a trade off issue, I guess.
18:39 soegaard: Not sure.
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18:40 rich1: list with 3 million integers, cpu time: 16547 real time: 16563 gc time: 9860
18:41 didi: firefux: I don't think htdp is exactly an introduction to Racket.
18:41 rich1: same input list but rewriting to use foldl etc, cpu time: 5719 real time: 5718 gc time: 673
18:42 asumu: firefux: that depends.
18:42 rich1: firefux: i find the racket guide good
18:42 didi: firefux: If you already know how to program, maybe the internal docs are a better way.
18:42 asumu: HtDP2e is more of a guide to learn to program. If you already know how to program, the Guide is likely more helpful.
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18:43 rich1: tell a lie, the fairer comparison is with this version, cpu time: 11375 real time: 11391 gc time: 5405
18:43 rich1: the even quicker one uses for/list and in-range instead of map and range
18:44 didi: rich1: I understand your problem and I have too wondered about how awesome streams are. But on real tests, streams sometimes are heavier than lists, I find.
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18:50 firefux: ok thanks
18:51 rich1: i got caught out with foldl because racket puts the result parameter last, mathematica puts it 1st
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18:51 didi: rich1: Maybe you want to use foldr.
18:52 didi: No no, foldl.
18:52 didi *sigh*
18:52 didi: It always confuse me.
18:52 didi: s/confuse/confuses
18:54 rich1: same here - and the terms backwards/forwards compatible - i'm sure i've heard people say it the other way around by accident just to confuse me moe
18:54 didi: It's the opposite from SICP.
18:54 asumu: I like how simple this is: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Hello_world/Web_server#Racket
18:55 asumu: Though the Run BASIC one is more simple.
18:55 rich1: did: aha!
18:56 rich1: i didn't know about the SICP thing but reading their description is why i always get them confused
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18:57 didi: rich1: Yeah. As I read there first, I always have to do some mental work. And as you can see, I always fail. ;^)
18:57 mithos28: asumu: typechecking case-> types requires type checking the body of the lambda for each type
18:58 didi: One is "FROM the [blank]" and the other is "TO the [blank]".
18:58 mithos28: thus by nesting like 10 of these you make it so typechecking won't complete in the near future
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19:56 dented42: what's today's start for?
19:56 dented42: s/start/star/
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20:29 shriphani: Hi. dyoo mentioned yesterday that I need to do some work to get an at-exp language to be placed in collects. Is there some documentation on how to do this ?
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20:47 offby1: asumu: I did one: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/HTTPS/Authenticated#Racket
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20:55 (nick) cantcode -> banana_pee
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21:14 acarrico: I wonder why ffi/unsafe there is no _char? Easy enough to do (define _char _byte), but ... strange.
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21:17 offby1: perhaps because the word "character" could be misinterpreted to mean "Unicode code point"
21:26 acarrico: Maybe just so you can define your own conversions (to a scheme char or an integer or whatever).
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21:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/rdLXYg
21:42 RacketCommitBot: racket/master be0e32b Robby Findler: remove a use of normal-case-path...
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22:18 didi: Am I the only one that is seeing ^O characters in RacketCommitBot messages?
22:19 jao is not
22:20 didi: Bad ERC, bad.
22:20 didi: acarrico: Hum, if you remember that a `byte?' is an integer between 0 and 255, it starts to make sense.
22:21 didi: Or at least, a little sense. I don't know.
22:22 didi goes back to kittens playing pianos youtube videos
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22:30 acarrico: didi: Ya, I get it. I was just translating some C structs that happened to have some char fields.  I automatically typed _char in the define-cstruct, and was just surprised to get an error since it is a very common C type.
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22:32 didi: acarrico: I understand. But thinking about it, it's kinda a misnomer nowadays with UTF-8 and those fancy codings.
22:33 acarrico: If I was implementing racket, I'd just treat it as another integer type and alias it to _byte, or whatever is platform appropriate. It is an FFI, so make it easy get the sizeof's right, so to speak.
22:34 acarrico: But every use case is different, I guess that is why they didn't specify it.
22:35 didi: acarrico: If I remember correctly, they added `size_t' just recently.
22:36 acarrico: FFI is kind of depressing. It seems like there should be some tool that can analyze C headers and do define the types automatically, but then you look at swig and give up on that idea.
22:37 acarrico: :).
22:38 didi: acarrico: Ah, we actually should implement it all in Racket. Having to deal with a foreign world is _really_ depressing.
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22:39 didi: "Oh, look, cute. A segfault."
22:39 didi: Bummer.
22:40 acarrico: I don't mind low level stuff that much. It is appropriate at a certain level. But it would be nice if C had tighter types and a decent module system, etc. so that it was easier to interface down to.
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23:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/BQ6wFw
23:37 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 7f67252 chrdimo: replacing applicable structures for procedure options with chaperones + tweak-option + with-contract mode
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