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03:30 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/YKci_A
03:30 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 576a573 Eli Barzilay: New Racket version 5.3.3.2.
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05:47 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org -- RacketCon videos/slides: http://con.racket-lang.org -- logs at http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs/
05:47 (names) -: gabot stchang jrslepak samth_away danking Fare bitonic` noelw tcsc juanfra__ hkBst tilde` cdidd mceier noam_ Shambles_1 Raynes xulfer Nereid sirdancealot7 Pupnik jaimef Shviller ASau eikonos sizz Nisstyre BeLucid Twey parcha dented42 dca lusory fasta_ ivan\ JStoker greghendershott ohama mattmight ozzloy hyko SeanTAllen friscosam m4burns gf3 @ChanServ offby1 xian strawmn Shvillr bremner willem ormaaj errstr majoh basepi cky ivan` pinupgeek notdan mario-goulart
05:47 (names) -: pono asumu eMBee jschuster whoops elliottcable rapacity dsantiago cipher DarthRamone karswell sethalves Draggor SHODAN Guest9717 mau_ Cryovat otterdam acarrico merijn zeom chandler rudybot eataix spanner_ danl-ndi_ snorble_
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08:52 rich_: i'm trying to learn 'future' and 'touch' by having a few futures which sleep
08:52 rich_: the idea being that the approx. runtime will be just a bit longer than the longest sleep
08:52 rich_: however, i can only get it to be the sum of all the sleeps - i.e. it's sequential
08:53 rich_: "...Between a call to future and touch for a given future, the given thunk may run speculatively in parallel to other computations..."
08:54 rich_: my futures only seem to be executed by a touch
08:55 (nick) fasta_ -> fasta
08:57 rich_: http://paste.opensuse.org/84758529
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09:18 samth: rich_: that's because the futures all block waiting to use output
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09:18 samth: futures can't run in parallel if they need to use output (or many other parts of the runtime system)
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09:19 samth: see the discussion about "safe" here: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/futures.html?q=future
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11:14 mithos28: samth: ping
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11:26 samth: mithos28: pong
11:26 mithos28: what is the meaning of the result of the function subtype in TR
11:26 mithos28: is it truth or proof
11:27 samth: mithos28: proof
11:27 samth: there's definitely situations involving case-> and Un that are not proved
11:27 samth: at least, that's my feeling, i haven't thought about it much recently
11:27 mithos28: ok so a false value tells you nothing?
11:28 samth: mithos28: i believe a false answer is treated as telling you that they aren't subtypes
11:28 samth: it depends what you mean by truth
11:29 samth: if you mean truth in the sense of provable by some formal subtyping system that subtype.rkt implements, then i think it's true
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11:29 samth: if you mean truth in the sense of things we could allow soundly, then i think #f doesn't tell you anything
11:30 mithos28: Ok, the question comes up because of numeric sequences
11:31 mithos28: A byte should be a (-seq -Byte), and Fixnum should be (-seq Fixnum)
11:31 mithos28: but I haven't added those cases only Nat is (-seq Nat)
11:32 samth: that seems ok but suboptimal
11:32 samth: ok in the sense that i'm sure nothing relies on it being truth in that sense
11:33 mithos28: So I thought about how to do it, but I'm not sure how to easily do it
11:33 mithos28: also should we get (-val 10) be a (-seq -Byte)
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11:34 samth: mithos28: if it's hard, no need to worry about it to get the initial patch in
11:34 samth: mithos28: also, i'd like to get you commit access to the repository
11:35 samth: so that you can commit things yourself after review
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11:35 samth: mithos28: does that seem reasonable to you?
11:35 mithos28: samth: Sounds good
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11:36 mithos28: Actually I think I can do it, I thought the number of range bounded types I would need to do it for was huge, but it is actually only 4 and so special casing those will work and I don't need a general algo
11:37 samth: mithos28: awesome
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11:49 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 93bf0cd Robby Findler: fix 2d lexer for the case when the #2d expression...
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11:51 mithos28: samth: do you need a public key or anything like that from me?
11:51 samth: mithos28: we will, but i need to email eli and then he'll be the one who sets that up
11:52 mithos28: ok, also I should probably get bug access as well
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12:29 rich_: samth: ah thanks
12:30 rich_: if i remove the display calls - it still takes the sum - so does this mean sleep is "unsafe"?
12:31 (part) rich_
12:32 mithos28: rich_: I believe sleep is unsafe
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12:39 Shambles_1: Clowns might get you.
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12:52 bremner want's a shirt that says "Clowns are scared of me"
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14:38 RacketCommitBot: racket/master a348e54 Matthew Flatt: fix a `configure' test...
14:38 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 840fc9c Michael Filonenko: full unboxing for extflonums, plus `ffi/unsafe' support...
14:38 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 6281ac0 Matthew Flatt: less noisy win32 builds
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14:57 masm: Can I have a submodule using a planet language?
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15:20 asumu: masm: yes
15:20 asumu: Hmm, although I got an odd error when I tried, but that might be my planet package being broken
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15:22 asumu: Ah, yeah, it was the planet package I used.
15:22 asumu: (so if you wanted to use sweet expressions in a submodule, too bad :p)
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15:25 RacketCommitBot: racket/master e7a4345 Asumu Takikawa: Add a missing contract
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15:54 rich_: http://paste.opensuse.org/74514566 - trying to calculate prime in parallel
15:55 rich_: again trying to learn future and touch - but they both seem to take the same amount of time
15:55 rich_: i tried would-be-future as well, and don't think anything in the debug log says prime? is unsafe
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16:48 dyoo: asumu: out of curiosity, do you see weird glyphs when viewing: http://hashcollision.org/tmp/foo.html
16:49 dyoo: I'm wondering if the regression I introduced was because the zero-wdith spaces are in the monospaced font...
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16:51 stamourv: rich_: Have you tried the futures visualizer?
16:52 asumu: dyoo: No, I just see underscores and words.
16:52 eli: dyoo: For this kind of work you should really use browsershots.org
16:52 eli: http://browsershots.org/http://hashcollision.org/tmp/foo.html
16:52 dyoo: oh, sweet
16:53 dyoo: ok, will do.  So I'll try to correct this.
16:54 eli: dyoo: IIRC, if you create a user account there, then you get some benefits.  I don't remember the details though, just that it's extremely useful when you're at that level.
16:54 dyoo: eli: ok.  Thanks again!
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16:57 rich_: stamourv: wow! i just tried that. it shows the futures executing in sequential order
17:03 rich_: i think guile allows lua code by rewriting it into lisp - would that be #lang in racket land?
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17:06 asumu: rich_: Yeah, it wouldn't be too hard to write a #lang lua.
17:06 stamourv: rich_: Re visualizer: It should also tell you what it's blocking on.
17:06 asumu: Especially with dyoo's ragg tool to write the parser.
17:06 stamourv: Re lua: In Racket, we'd do it as a #lang, I don't know if Guile's mechanism works the same way or not.
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17:10 rich_: cool. i'm loving the arbitrary numbers + unicode string support btw
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17:11 rich_: just going to check future visualizer again to see if/where it blocks
17:11 rich_: scheme-force-value-same-mark?
17:12 rich_: it's not in the manual
17:15 stamourv: rich_: Sounds like something in the implementation of promises.
17:15 stamourv: Maybe `prime?' uses promises. I don't know how it's implemented.
17:16 stamourv: Here's a guess: `prime?' does memoization, and since you're running 2 instances of it, they need to synchronize.
17:16 stamourv: soegaard: Does the above make sense?
17:17 rich_: ah that could be it - i couldn't find anything in the debug log mentioned by 'would-be-future' saying it's unsafe though
17:18 rich_: i couldn't think of a simple yet time consuming process to test futures/touch - other than the example in the manual
17:18 rich_: *think of another
17:19 stamourv: Ok, I had a look at `prime?', and it does indeed memoize, which would block.
17:19 stamourv: If you want an example of using futures, our recent FHPC paper walks through how to use futures and the visualizer to parallelize an FFT.
17:19 rich_: ok - that makes sense now.
17:20 stamourv: http://www.eecs.northwestern.edu/~robby/pubs/papers/fhpc2012-sfsff.pdf
17:20 stamourv: (In case you're interested.)
17:20 rich_: that could be interesting, i thought FFT split it recursively
17:21 stamourv: Yep. The example is a pretty vanilla Cooley-Tukey.
17:21 stamourv: So you end up with a tree of futures.
17:22 stamourv: I think it's a cool example. But I'm biased. ;)
17:23 soegaard: stamourv: No promises. In fact I don't remember doing anything too fancy in prime?
17:26 rich_: stamourv: "...When it encounters other kinds of numbers (e.g., bignums, rationals, or complex numbers), or encounters non-numbers, then + must be barricaded..."
17:26 stamourv: soegaard: It looks like it's doing memoization. Dunno if that counts as fancy.
17:26 rich_: wouldn't that also explain sequential for prime? as i'm using bignums
17:26 stamourv: rich_: Ah, good point.
17:26 stamourv: You did use a pretty big number.
17:27 rich_: smallers ones executed too quickly :)
17:27 stamourv: Then run `test-parallel' in a loop.
17:28 rich_: good call
17:28 stamourv: Also, depending on your platforms, you can get some reasonably large fixnums.
17:28 stamourv: rudybot: (fixnum? (sub1 (expt 2 62)))
17:28 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: #f
17:28 stamourv: rudybot: (fixnum? (sub1 (expt 2 30)))
17:28 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: #t
17:29 stamourv: rudybot: You're on a 32-bit machine, did you know that?
17:29 rudybot: stamourv: Your machine has been infected by the recent spam attacks - visit http://www2.freenode.pl/ for a quick and easy solution!
17:29 stamourv: Thanks, but no thanks.
17:29 rich_: nice
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17:49 rich_: stamourv: interesting paper - glad to see the benchmarks too
17:49 dyoo: asumu: about mentioning Lua.  Hmmm.  https://github.com/dyoo/ragg/blob/master/ragg/examples/lua-parser.rkt
17:49 dyoo: :)
17:49 rich_: i don't know anything about guile apart from reading the news file and seeing lua on the website...
17:50 rich_: it'd be interesting to see if their future/touch has the same legacy reasons as racket
17:50 stamourv: rich_: Have you looked at Racket's places?
17:51 stamourv: They also provide parallelism, but make different tradeoffs.
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17:52 rich_: i haven't yet - i seen them mentioned in the paper though. i'm currently learning racket from scratch
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17:56 asumu: dyoo: oh, very nice.
17:56 asumu: BTW: anyone else have a DrRacket at the most recent git version?
17:57 stamourv: rich_: If you're learning Racket, I recommend reading the Racket Guide.
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17:57 stamourv: It's a good intro to what Racket has to offer.
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18:03 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 0c37849 Matthew Flatt: racket/gui: fix contract of `set-value' in `gauge%'
18:03 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 80a2249 Matthew Flatt: doc clarification
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22:00 mye: this should be added to racket/dict: (test (dict 1 2 3 4) => '((1 . 2) (3 . 4)))
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22:11 mye: Is there a sequence constructor that produces two values each time from a one-valued sequence e.g. [(a b) (in-twos)]
22:11 mye: I want this to implement the aforementioned dict function :-)
22:12 mye: I have looked through the constructors but maybe there's a trick I don't know?!
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23:16 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/_t2f0w
23:16 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 23d0627 Matthew Flatt: scribble: improve HTML handling of 'unnumbered and 'toc-hidden...
23:16 RacketCommitBot: racket/master c8ae8c4 Matthew Flatt: scribble Latex: support all 2d-cond characters
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23:22 asumu: mye: does `hash` do what you want to do?
23:22 asumu: rudybot: (hash 1 2 3 4)
23:22 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: #hash((1 . 2) (3 . 4))
23:23 mye: rudybot: (sequence-length (hash 1 2 1 3))
23:24 rudybot: mye: your sandbox is ready
23:24 rudybot: mye: ; Value: 1
23:24 mye: :(
23:25 mye: any idea how hash is implemented? (can't use jump to definition)
23:26 asumu: It's in the C code.
23:26 asumu: I think immutable hashes are some kind of tree.
23:26 mye: yeah, do you know other functions that only accept an even number of args?
23:27 mye: I just failed to write dict and am looking for ideas :-)
23:27 asumu: There are some like that, but I don't remember off the top of my head.
23:27 asumu: Also, shouldn't (sequence-length (hash 1 2 1 3)) be 1?
23:27 asumu: After all, you're setting the same key twice.
23:28 mye: asumu: yes but it's not what I need
23:31 asumu: Oh, I see what you mean now.
23:31 (quit) Nisstyre: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
23:32 mye: Hmm, that dict function could take a keyworke #:type and would construct e.g. alists, splay-tree, skip-lists and what else implements the gen:dict in data/
23:35 asumu: So doesn't `in-hash-pairs` do what you want?
23:35 asumu: rudybot: (sequence->list (in-hash-pairs (hash 1 2 3 4)))
23:35 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: ((1 . 2) (3 . 4))
23:36 asumu: I guess it doesn't work on arbitrary dicts, if that's what you want.
23:36 asumu: Ah, but there's `in-dict-pairs`
23:39 (quit) bitonic: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
23:43 mye: asumu: I want a convenient notation for making dicts :-)
23:44 mye: Racket either lacks in that regard or I'm not informed
23:44 (join) Nisstyre
23:45 mye: The dict datatype lacks a general constructor is what I think my issue is
23:50 asumu: Well, it's not really a datatype in the normal Racket sense.
23:50 asumu: It's just a generic interface for different things.
23:50 asumu: (what's confusing is streams and sequences are also generic interfaces, but they "pun" with a distinct datatype too)
23:51 asumu: If you want to write `dict`, you could just (define dict hash)