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02:28 shriphani_: hi. is this problem fixed yet? http://lists.racket-lang.org/users/archive/2011-September/048277.html  Will it be fixed soon ?
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02:39 jonrafkind: you should reply to that email
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02:56 neilv: weird
02:58 neilv: looks like i'm getting a situation in 5.3.1 in which a planet install of foo decides (while formatting documentation) to fetch and install bar (which i had recently released to planet and then removed the dev link), and then it says "found local, uninstalled copy of package at"... even if i removed that file before starting
02:59 neilv: anyway, i was going to show how the new version of my uri library handles that url  bug, but will have to later
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06:15 shriphani_: hi. are there lazy versions of file->lines etc. in some srfi?
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06:27 MightyFoo: shriphani_: maybe not quite what you're after but: in-port "Returns a sequence whose elements are produced by calling r on in until it produces eof."
06:27 MightyFoo: i'm guessing that it is "lazy"
06:27 (nick) MightyFoo -> tim-brown
06:27 shriphani_: tim-brown: I want to perform a reduce / foldl on it.
06:28 shriphani_: so I should use stream-fold ?
06:28 Sgeo: foldl is unlazy
06:28 tim-brown: for/fold may well be useful
06:28 Sgeo: It forces each element to be realized
06:29 tim-brown: tbh, i don't know about stream-fold; for/fold works lovely for me, though
06:31 shriphani_: ah it would have been neat to #lang lazy and then use the lazy fold with file->lines
06:33 Sgeo: shriphani_, well, for that a lazy file->lines would be useful, sure
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06:33 Sgeo: Although, do keep in mind that lazy I/O can be difficult to keep track of
06:34 shriphani_: also, I am approaching this as a super-n00b but if I do (lazy (read-line port)) and force it, why do I keep getting a cached value? Shouldn't it read on till eof?
06:35 Sgeo: I _think_ the thing created by lazy caches, so when you force twice you get the same value
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06:36 Sgeo: Try delay/name
06:36 Sgeo: (Unless you need lazy
06:36 Sgeo: (Unless you need lazy's recursive forcing functionality)
06:36 Sgeo: "Creates a ?call-by-name? promise that is similar to delay-promises, except that the resulting value is not cached. "
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07:11 tim-brown: is there a racket language/module/whatever that allows for unit tests to be combined with function definitions?
07:12 tim-brown: e.g. something like... (define/tested (f a) #:test (= (f 2) 4) (+ a 2))
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07:15 Sgeo: tim-brown, one thing you can do is use module+ to keep adding to a test module
07:15 Sgeo: (define (f a) (+ a 2))
07:16 Sgeo: (module+ test (check-equal (f 2) 4)))
07:16 Sgeo: err
07:16 Sgeo: (module+ test (check-equal? (f 2) 4)))
07:17 tim-brown: Sgeo: i know that; the current challenge in "plt games" www.pltgames.com is to: "The goal of this theme is to create a language that is somehow related to automated testing"
07:17 Sgeo: Ah
07:17 Sgeo: Well, just write a macro that expands into the appropriate code, I would suggest
07:17 tim-brown: i thought that modding racket to have a define/tested (a syntax that does exactly what you just described)
07:17 tim-brown: might fulfil the challenge
07:18 Sgeo: Does writing macros count as modding the language for the purposes of the challenge?
07:18 tim-brown: i've got the macro written (it's not so hard), but i didn't want to duplicate any effort elsewhere
07:18 Sgeo: Ah
07:18 tim-brown: nor did i want to suggest that racket doesn't have such a syntax IF it did
07:18 Sgeo doesn't know
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07:19 tim-brown: re does writing a macro constitute a language; if i can get a working #lang tag going, that satisfies *me* at least :-)
07:19 tim-brown: the other question is can I disable top-level "define"
07:20 tim-brown: that would show that I'm *serious* about enforcing TDD
07:20 noelw: Random testing is fun. That's what I would do (I'm a machine learning dude.)
07:20 tim-brown: (and that I haven't just writ a macro)
07:20 Sgeo: tim-brown, in a #lang, yes you can
07:21 Sgeo: The module that provides the lang should just provide everything from racket except for define
07:21 Sgeo: And other illegal constructs
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07:22 tim-brown: i was also thinking that the #:test could also provide a "mock" function (somehow, not thought it through so much) so that:
07:23 tim-brown: (define/tested (f a) #:test (= (f 2) 4) #:test (= (f 0) 2) #|researching best way to implement this|#)
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07:24 tim-brown: allows me (in a "mock" module) to call (f 0) or (f 2), to get usable results
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07:25 tim-brown: (although I don't know whether this is a count bits, or an add 2 function at the moment)
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07:25 tim-brown: personally, i also want to play around with syntax/parse
07:26 Sgeo: Hmm
07:26 tim-brown: Sgeo: Hmm, what?
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07:27 Sgeo: Create a mock function based on the tests (although I don't see a general way to do that), and provide them from a specially named submodule
07:27 Sgeo: Anything that wants to use the mock functions requires the submodule rather than the direct module
07:27 Sgeo: Is that sufficient
07:27 tim-brown: is what I was thinking
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07:28 Sgeo: Or should code be forced to use the mocks against their will? (I don't think that can be done in Racket, although it can probably be done in Clojure and Common Lisp)
07:28 tim-brown: not sure how usable that would be in practice
07:29 tim-brown: not against their will -- if an implementation exists, then there prolly wouldn't be a need for a mock
07:29 tim-brown: (since the implementation would have to meet the tests and .: work the same as the mock)
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07:31 Sgeo: What I tend to want is, a way to test code that uses some external API, and provide a fake API for it to use while testing, without changing the code
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07:32 tim-brown: i'm not sure if what i'm proposing would work for you one or not... if i find time to get this working; it'd be interesting to see how useful it is to your way of working
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07:54 merijn: hmm, I'm playing around with xrepl, but it seems to misinterpret my delete key? It inserts a tilde instead of deleting a character
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08:32 bremner: merijn: what kind of terminal emulator?
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08:35 merijn: tmux running inside Terminal.app on OSX
08:36 merijn: (which is emulating an xterm-color terminal)
08:36 bremner: hmm. I guess it might be Terminal.app specific; tmux in urxvt works well here
08:37 merijn: Well, delete works in any other program I'm using, gdb, vim, bash, etc.
08:37 merijn: The only one where it breaks seems to be racket+xrepl
08:37 bremner: sure, I'm not saying the problem is Terminal.app's fault, just that I don't know where to go from there.
08:39 bremner: there are certainly some mac users around though, I guess they should know more than me.
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08:43 bartbes: it's odd though, since the tilde is usually produced by the home key
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08:46 merijn: hmm, there's something funky going on with xrepl anyway
08:46 merijn: If I paste unicode characters into it they're magically being turned into unicode escape sequences, which is really weird...
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08:48 bremner: and not to beat a dead horse, normally pasting unicode characters into Terminal.app is fine?
08:48 merijn: Yeah, it appears the readline used by Racket suffers from braindamage (and thus xrepl too)
08:49 merijn: If I run racket (no readline) and paste unicode it works just fine (not sure about delete as I have no arrows to move cursor without readline)
08:49 merijn: If I (require readline) and paste the same character again I get unicode escape sequences
08:50 bartbes: maybe you've got some messed up locale settings somewhere?
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08:51 merijn: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=UTF-8
08:52 bartbes shrugs
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08:52 bartbes: well, it only seems to affect readline anyway
08:53 bartbes: or just racket+readline?
08:53 merijn: Just racket+readline module, my other readline applications work fine
08:54 merijn: So I'm guessing the Racket readline modules is broken or somehow linked to something broken
08:55 merijn: But I wouldn't really know how to figure out which locale racket is seeing if it's not using what I see from "export"
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08:55 samth: merijn: the racket readline module is a pretty thin wrapper over gnu readline
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09:17 bniels: merijn, are you sure that "LC_CTYPE=UTF-8" is a legal specification? according to setlocale(3), the language part is not optional
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09:41 merijn: bniels: I dunno, but changing it to en_US.UTF-8 doesn't fix things
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10:45 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/_vTgSg
10:45 RacketCommitBot: racket/master d406e2d Asumu Takikawa: Make srfi/19 compatible with date* structs...
10:45 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 8d1c56c Asumu Takikawa: Rackety
10:45 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 1ae216e Asumu Takikawa: Delete trailing whitespace
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10:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Cs5rJg
10:59 RacketCommitBot: racket/master cd03585 Asumu Takikawa: HISTORY update
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12:42 GojaN: hello there... I want to know, is any history of the commands executed in the DrRacket terminal showed in the editor window?
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13:00 asumu: GojaN: try alt-p
13:00 asumu: (that should let you "scroll up")
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13:09 GojaN: asumu: no luck, it prints the pi character "π" I'm using a Mac
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13:12 Sgeo: Ctrl-uparrow?
13:15 GojaN: nice! Thanks Sego!
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13:18 Sgeo: You're welcome
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13:35 asumu: Oh, sorry, alt-p must be with emacs keybindings on.
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13:38 GojaN: asumu: yes, maybe. Thanks you asumu anyway :)
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14:29 cky: asumu: .oO(Emacs keybindings? Does it mean that DrRacket can actually support paredit mode?)
14:30 Sgeo wants paredit in DrRacket
14:30 cky: :-D
14:30 asumu: cky: nah, but if you turn off menu keybindings it acts slightly more like emacs for keybindings.
14:30 cky: Bummer.
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14:36 samth: mithos28: ping
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14:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/7apCIA
14:57 RacketCommitBot: racket/master b656498 Sam Tobin-Hochstadt: Typed modules as languages doesn't currently work.
14:57 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 230172c Sam Tobin-Hochstadt: Use `syntax-procedure-alias-property` with struct constructor procedures as well....
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15:05 samth: greghendershott: you know about geiser, right?
15:06 stamourv: samth: I'm curious, what's that second commit for?
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15:06 samth: right now the `constructor-for` property can't be trusted
15:06 samth: so this is a trusted way to do that
15:07 stamourv: Ok.
15:07 stamourv: Are you taking care of mithos28's pull requests?
15:08 greghendershott: samth: Yes, I've used Quack+Geiser, and sometimes just Quack+XREPL.
15:08 samth: stamourv: yes
15:09 stamourv: samth: Ok, great.
15:09 samth: greghendershott: is your mode intended to be used w/ geiser?
15:10 greghendershott: Probably but maybe also just with XREPL. I like Geiser but sometimes I need the ,log feature in XREPL which doesn't work with Geiser.
15:10 greghendershott: ATM I'm just doinking around, not trying to create any big thang
15:11 greghendershott: I did email neilv first to check
15:14 bremner: greghendershott: fwiw, I was thinking yesterday that some xrepl features in emacs would be useful; and geiser does seem a bit fragile sometimes.
15:15 bremner surprised eli hasn't done some xrepl+emacs thing
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15:18 eli: bremner: ?
15:19 eli: You mean something that interacts with a running racket where expressions get sent to their proper context etc?
15:22 bremner: eli: I guess I'm not sure what I expect.  I thought you might have some "inferior-xrepl" mode. I was looking for some way to start drracket on a buffer from within emacs.
15:24 bremner: I should say I just ran "git grep xrepl" in your EliEmacs git repo ;)
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15:24 eli: bremner: One thing that I'd like to do is something that used to exist in the past -- it was called "DrSchemeJr" and was an attempt to implement the same interface in Emacs.
15:24 eli: That would be close to what geiser is doing.
15:25 eli: But if you want to just start drr from a buffer then that's much easier, you just run a shell command...
15:25 bremner: well, I don't really want to start a new drracket, just a new tab
15:26 bremner: maybe that has less to do with emacs, and more to do with extending drracket
15:26 eli: An extension that is semi-relevant that I have is a shell-command variant that has $f, $F, and $d have the current file name, the full name, and the directory.
15:26 eli: Makes it very convenient to do things like `F4 git checkout $f'
15:26 (nick) mye_ -> mye
15:27 eli: And for the drracket side, you should start it with a -singleInstance flag and have it running in the background,
15:27 bremner: oh, that's easy :)
15:27 eli: then you can run it again (with the same flag) on new files, and it will just open a tab.
15:27 eli: I don't use it for work, but it's very convenient in class.
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15:27 bremner: right, that's what I want it for also.
15:27 eli: Do you use my emacs hacks in class?
15:28 eli: :)
15:28 bremner: no, I use my own emacs hacks based on emacsclient and geiser
15:28 eli: Phhft...
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15:28 bremner: it's mostly great, except when I need e.g. the debugger.
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15:28 eli doesn't believe in stuff he didn't write, of course...
15:28 bremner: a true schemer ;)
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15:29 eli: In any case, if you use my thing, then the two relevant keys are M-F1 and M-F2
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15:29 eli: The first one will start a related buffer showing just the selection, after maximizing the font so it is as big as possible
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15:29 eli: If there is no selection it tries to guess the region of racket code around the point.
15:30 eli: Editing this display buffer and then killing it updates the real buffer too.
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15:31 eli: And M-F2 does the same thing, except that instead of displaying the region it saves it in a temporary file and then starts drracket on it.
15:31 eli: With the -singleInstance thing.
15:31 eli: So it has exactly the effect that you want.
15:31 dented42: is using scribble/srcdoc for library documentation deprecated? because it doesn't seem to be able to document structures, classes, or interfaces, which rather limits it's usefulness.
15:31 eli: bremner: And generally speaking, I try to do more work in drr in class, since my emacs work habits are too obscure for the kids.
15:31 bremner: eli: right, I can probably adapt the M-F2 function to my workflow
15:32 eli: The first one is great too -- I actually use it *very* frequently.
15:32 bremner: eli: I'm using geiser, so it looks superficially similar.
15:32 eli: Basically on all of the little snippets of code.
15:33 eli: The whole thing is hopefully not too tied up to my environment too, maybe except for a couple of fuctions here and there.
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15:34 bremner: Yeah, I can't remember now exactly why, but I headed off in the direction of generating seperate files for all the snippets, and using hyperlinks to those files from PDF files.
15:35 eli: Bah...  Why?
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15:35 eli: FWIW, I find the single text file thing is *extremely* convenient
15:35 eli: s/is//
15:35 eli: I've made many global changes to the course, and having a single file makes it very easy to adapt code.
15:36 eli: I also have code that dices the file according to dates, so students get one file per lecture.
15:36 (quit) dyoo: Quit: dyoo
15:36 eli: I considered making it a markdown thing at some point, but I still hate common markdowns way too much.
15:37 eli: Starting with the ugly `foo` convention instead of `foo'
15:37 eli: (And of course my Emacs displays `...'s with the nice quotes, instead of the ugly assymetric ascii characters that everyone else probably sees now.)
15:39 eli: http://tmp.barzilay.org/x.png
15:39 samth: eli: i think `` is a big improvement over the asymmetric `'
15:40 didi: All hail Latex.
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15:40 bremner: I'm not sure about the effort involved in getting it working, but now that I have beamer generated PDFs with syntax-highlighting (generated from the text files) I'm reasonably happy with that as something to distribute to students.
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15:47 eli: samth: You think wrong, of course.
15:47 eli: Let me explain why, very shortly.
15:47 eli: `` have no direction.
15:47 eli: They're a hack that doesn't mean anything textually because markdown confuses content and display.
15:47 eli: And worse, it does that *inherently*, so there's no way to avoid it.
15:47 eli: The assymetric `'s are much better because the content does have proper delimiters, and now rendering can be done independently in the exact same way that markdown does.
15:47 samth: eli: regardless of right or wrong, however, network effects swamp the other reasons
15:47 eli: In short, it's yet another case where markdown loses because of this mixture that it's trying to do -- yet another case where the pitiful attempt at "doing the right thing following what people write anyway" just breaks down completely: people *don't* write like that, and in fact, I believe that he chose ``s exactly because of the existing convention of `'s as single-sided symmetric quotations.
15:47 eli: The bottom line is that the whole idea of markdown is completely bogus at its root, since you do end up learning the syntax, and you do end up using particulars just for the way they end up rendering, and that's exactly what it was intended not to do.
15:47 eli: And because of that, I consider it a total fail.
15:47 eli: (Oh yes, and god save you if you run into obscure corner cases, where you start trying to second-guess how things will render, and god save you if you end up depending on "github-flavored markdown" or any of the other 2000 flavors, and god save you if you need to do things that go beyond what markdown does (like render some margin note, as greghendershott discovered recently).)
15:48 eli: Yes, network effects do work.  That's how we ended up with Apple being what it is.
15:48 eli: <Insert obvious reference to nazism here.>
15:49 samth: i think invoking godwin in a discussion on markdown is a bit over the top
15:49 eli: Yet, that's what you deed by bringing up the "everybody's doing it" point...
15:49 eli: s/deed/did/
15:50 eli: So I'd agree to the fact that ``s *only* redeeming point is the fact that it's been made popular.  It's a sad fact, but it's there.
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15:50 samth: eli: no, i disagree that there's any analogy between suggesting that we should deal w/ markdown because it's popular, and nazis
15:51 samth: also, markdown is quite nice, and i find it useful in many contexts
15:51 samth: even when i don't actually render it
15:51 eli: (Oh, you really want to upgrade that from a semi-joke to a serious discussion?  Consider "just following orders".)
15:52 samth: eli: did I say "just following orders"?
15:52 eli: (No, but that's how you do the godwin thing.)
15:52 samth: eli: believe me, i know how discussion on the internet works
15:52 eli: The markdown that you find quite nice in such contexts -- like in emails -- is something that pisses me off every time I see it.  I can guarantee you that.
15:53 samth: de gustibus non est disputandem
15:56 eli: Nonsense.  Not when communicating -- when you feed your text to me.
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16:12 mye: Is the "Add User-defined Keybindings from Planet…" thing in Edit->Keybindings in DrRacket actually useful for anything?
16:13 mye: If there are bindings on planet, I've never found them :-)
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16:19 samth: mithos28: ping
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16:22 mye: I can't figure out if the date struct is immutable or not :-/
16:23 mye: I think it is, but apart from set-date-year! being undefinded, how does one tell?
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16:29 jonrafkind: isnt there a mutable? predicate
16:29 jonrafkind: oh its immutable?
16:29 samth: mye: you can't, in general tell
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16:40 asumu: mye: the struct struct is immutable.
16:41 asumu: s/struct/date/
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17:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/wf-TbA
17:17 RacketCommitBot: racket/master b03450c Carl Eastlund: Clarified the purpose of quote-module-name and quote-module-path in the Scribble docs.
17:17 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 860cc3c Carl Eastlund: Added quote-srcloc-string and quote-srcloc-prefix to syntax/location....
17:17 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 5130abf Carl Eastlund: Wrote documentation for quote-srcloc-string and quote-srcloc-prefix.
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17:19 mye: Is there something like dict-apply f d: use the key/value pairs from d as keyword args for f?
17:22 mye: I'm trying to collect arguments for f in loop but I don't know the order, so in the loop I could build a dict.
17:23 mye: Aha, I'll simply define all the args above the loop and use set! inside it
17:23 Kaylin twitches.
17:24 mye: Kaylin: honestly, after fidgeting with this for nearly an hour now it's time to do *something*
17:24 Kaylin: *nods*
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17:26 samth: mye: see `keyword-apply`
17:26 samth: rudybot: doc keyword-apply
17:26 rudybot: samth: your sandbox is ready
17:26 rudybot: samth: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/procedures.html#(def._((lib._racket%2Fprivate%2Fbase..rkt)._keyword-apply))
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17:32 mye: samth: thanks
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17:38 samth: jeapostrophe: drdr needs kicking
17:38 mye: I just realized I was missing lots of stuff from the seach results bc. of not really being aware/caring of the second result page (keyword-apply is the first result on the second page) :O
17:39 mye: and that after so many hours with the racket docs :'(
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17:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ht3yyg
17:58 RacketCommitBot: racket/master a5daacd Eric Dobson: Fix register-struct-bindings! to meet correct contract....
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