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00:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to release: http://git.io/SqJfcg
00:19 RacketCommitBot: racket/release b335a3d Ryan Culpepper: Alpha version number for the v5.3.2 release
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02:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/o59pKA
02:02 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 3e3283a Robby Findler: adjust drracket so check syntax can add its preferences itself...
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02:05 Sgeo_: How does graphical debugging interact with multithreading?
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02:58 Sizur: Greetings racketeers!
03:05 Sgeo_: Hi Sizur
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03:30 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/2DStxQ
03:30 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 3f65f91 Eli Barzilay: New Racket version 5.3.2.1.
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04:27 Sgeo_: "The `parameterize' form accepts only parameter procedures
04:27 Sgeo_: created by `make-parameter', not arbitrary procedures that
04:27 Sgeo_: accept 0 or 1 arguments."
04:27 Sgeo_: Hmm, why was that change made?
04:27 Sgeo_: It was made in 3xx
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04:38 Sgeo_: Is there a paper describing the motivation behind Racket's OO system?
04:38 Sgeo_: Because if it's "make Java programmers comfortable" I will scream
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07:10 asumu: Sgeo_: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/racket/pubs/asplas06-fff.pdf
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07:42 bremner: Is there a way to send a file to a running DrRacket, say to open it in a new tab?
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08:26 Sgeo_: Racket has both mutable and immutable strings?
08:26 Sgeo_: :/
08:27 bremner: where are the mutable ones, in some legacy language?
08:27 bremner: hmm. depends on your opinion of r6rs
08:28 Sgeo_: "A string can be mutable or immutable. When an immutable string is provided to a procedure like string-set!, the exn:fail:contract exception is raised. String constants generated by the default reader (see Reading Strings) are immutable, and they are interned in read-syntax mode."
08:28 bremner: just reading that page ;)
08:29 bremner: my attention span wasn't long enough to see what actually mutated them
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08:30 asumu: They're mutable by default, I think, which is a mistake inherited from Scheme.
08:31 asumu: Well, non-literal strings, I mean.
08:32 Sgeo_: I'm trying (hash-ref (hash) 'oops)
08:32 Sgeo_: Which errors, but then the REPL doesn't seem to come back after it
08:32 Sgeo_: Oh hmm, now it is
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09:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/gdemYg
09:43 RacketCommitBot: racket/master b0f3f03 Jay McCarthy: Removing exotic ports for PNRs
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10:37 Sgeo_: Hrm
10:37 Sgeo_: Can I write my own "pseudo random number generator"?
10:37 Sgeo_: In particular, I want to hook it up to a real random number generator like HotBits
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10:39 anonymous: Sgeo_: what do you mean? You can redefine even "define"
10:39 Sgeo_: Well, random seems to take an RNG as an argument
10:39 Sgeo_: Can I make something that would be compatible with random
10:45 anonymous: (define (random ignored-argument) (your-own-random))
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10:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to release: http://git.io/zTtSqw
10:46 RacketCommitBot: racket/release 1a9d203 Eli Barzilay: New Racket version 5.3.1.900.
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10:47 anonymous: ?
10:47 anonymous haven't read it all, maybe that's a bad code
10:47 anonymous: s/a/
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10:48 Sgeo_: I don't want to redefine random, I want to make my own kind of structure that I can pass to the built-in random
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11:08 samth: Sgeo_: unfortunately, that's not currently possible
11:08 Sgeo_: Ok, thank you
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11:31 Sgeo_: One of the most obvious cultural to me between Clojure and Racket is the emphasis in Racket on good error messages
11:31 Sgeo_: Have you ever seen a Clojure stack trace?
11:34 asumu: Sgeo_: yes, and oh the pain.
11:34 asumu once wrote part of a toy compiler in Clojure
11:34 asumu: Also, back then leiningen was pretty painful to use, though I imagine it's gotten better.
11:35 Sgeo_: Leiningen is a pain if you want to use a .jar that's not in a repository
11:35 Sgeo_: The response is usually "don't do that"
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11:39 greghendershott: hi, Racket build nub question: After a version change, I have stale compiled/ dirs even after make && make install
11:40 mithos28: greghendershott: raco setup -c and then raco setup
11:41 greghendershott: Ah thanks!
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11:58 bartbes: ugh, that reminds me, when I had to do some jvm stuff, in a very limited environment, though I might take a look at clojure
11:58 bartbes: it couldn't even do java compat correctly
11:58 bartbes: but kawa exists, thankfully
11:59 bartbes: (though I ended up just using java, it was nice to experiment with these things)
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12:16 Sgeo_: Hmm, /me wonders how include-template works
12:17 anonymous is continuing to study Racket, and has a question after which he will be considered a really slowpoke
12:17 anonymous: ...just for crosscheck
12:18 anonymous has stopped to typing question to not make problems to the Sgeo_'s question
12:18 Sgeo_: anonymous, multiple conversations can occur at once. Don't worry about that
12:19 anonymous: Sgeo_: ok.
12:20 anonymous: (and "true" (if (> 0 3) "true" "false"))
12:20 anonymous: no, not so
12:21 anonymous: (and "a_string" (if (> 0 3) "true" "false"))
12:21 anonymous: is "true" in tail position with respect to (if (> 0 3) "true" "false")
12:21 anonymous: ?
12:21 samth: anonymous: yes
12:22 samth: so is "false"
12:22 anonymous: but the continuation of "if" is "and a string"...
12:23 anonymous: and the continuation of true is not
12:23 samth: anonymous: no, that's not true
12:23 samth: (and A B) => (if A B #false)
12:23 samth: so B is in tail position wrt the overall expression
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12:25 anonymous: what is the continuation of "true"?
12:25 anonymous: what is the continuation of "(if (> 0 3) "true" "false")>
12:25 anonymous: ?
12:25 anonymous: *
12:25 samth: anonymous: well, "true" is never executed
12:26 anonymous: ...and what is the continuation of "false"?
12:26 samth: and wrt which larger expression?
12:26 samth: but in (and #t (if #f "true" "false"))
12:26 samth: "false" is evaluated in an empty continuation
12:27 anonymous: so, false - empty continuation, "true" has no continuation, what about (if #f "true" "false") ?
12:28 samth: that's also evaluated in the empty continuation
12:29 anonymous: is it the same in (and "ff" (if #f "true" "false")) and (and (if #f "true" "false") "bar")?
12:30 samth: "ff" is the same as #t from the perspective of `and`
12:30 samth: but in your second expression, they're evaluated in a non-empty continuation, one that returns "bar"
12:31 samth: anonymous: you would probably benefit from trying out the stepper in drracket
12:31 anonymous: what is stepper?
12:31 anonymous: the*
12:31 anonymous is reading "The Racket Reference"
12:31 samth: anonymous: it visualizes the process of evaluating expressions
12:32 anonymous: samth: how to run it?
12:32 samth: anonymous: to use it, start drracket, switch to the `beginning student` language
12:32 samth: and then click the "step" button
12:32 samth: with your program in the definitions window
12:33 anonymous: samth: thank you
12:33 anonymous isn't sure that he has got the term "continuation"
12:34 samth: continuation = "rest of the computation"
12:35 anonymous has got it just as the text... now he is going to interpret it as tokens, maybe...
12:40 anonymous: (and (if (> 0 3) "true" "false") "a_string")
12:40 anonymous: is "true" in tail position with respect to (if  (> 0 3) "true" "false")?
12:41 carleastlund_: anonymous: I'll answer that question with a question.  Is there anything left for the if-expression to do after computing "true"?
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12:43 anonymous: carleastlund_: I am crosschecking. My answer to my question: no. To yours: no.
12:44 anonymous listening to carleastlund_ very carefully, since he has made many mistakes about it already
12:44 anonymous: is*
12:45 carleastlund_: anonymous: If the answer to my question is "no", then the answer to your question must be "yes".  If there's nothing left to do, there is no "rest of the computation".  If there is no "rest of the computation", there is no continuation.  When there is no continuation, that's tail position.
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12:49 Sgeo_: samth, how does the debugger interact with threads?
12:49 (quit) ambrosebs: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
12:50 Sgeo_: Also, these environments I keep trying which are somewhat nice are almost tempting me back into Smalltalk with its nice IDE
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12:54 anonymous: carleastlund_: Thank you very much!!! So, to crosscheck: is "true" in tail position with respect to (and (if (> 0 3) "true" "false") "a_string") . My answer: no.
12:55 anonymous: ...he must transform "a_string" to #t
12:55 carleastlund_: anonymous, spot-on :)
12:56 anonymous: carleastlund_: thank you very much!!!
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13:22 asumu: http://lanyrd.com/2013/clojurewest/sccbrw/ wooo
13:23 Cryovat: You're sneaky
13:23 Cryovat: Trying to win over the Clojure folks? :D
13:23 asumu: Yes, it's brainwashing.
13:23 asumu: Although it might backfire and Clojure adopts #lang. ;)
13:23 Cryovat: Hehe
13:24 Cryovat: You can offer what they can't though
13:24 Cryovat: Turtles all the way down :D
13:25 chandler: asumu: wouldn't making #lang a universal standard be a Good Thing(TM)?
13:25 Cryovat: Only as long as the implementation is consistant
13:26 asumu: chandler: I was mostly kidding, but yes, it would be nice. Especially if the modules in any #lang implementation could interoperate.
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13:28 asumu: (that would be the hard part, I think. You might also need a unified macro system?)
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13:32 chandler: asumu: Oh, I was just thinking about it from the point of view of tools that might encounter arbitrary source files, e.g. text editors or code-sharing tools. "#lang foo" is a lot better than Emacs modelines, heuristic detection or file extensions.
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13:36 didi: chandler: What type of better? I mean, "-*- foo -*-" seems pretty straight forward to me.
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13:42 Sgeo_: The thing that deeply bothers me about Racket from a theoretical perspective is, how does one compose languages
13:43 Sgeo_: I can't just mix the semantics of two languages into one module. I don't see an easy way to do Typed+Lazy Racket
13:43 samth: Sgeo_: i don't think that's a problem with Racket, per se -- it's yet another awesome thing we could do, but that we don't know how to do yet
13:43 bremner: does anyone know how to do it?
13:44 Cryovat: I can't get my head around how it would work
13:45 Sgeo_: It kind of does suggest that all different #langs might be excessive. Typed Racket + web-server/insta = ?
13:45 Cryovat: Isn't web-server/insta just some default imports?
13:45 Sgeo_: When web-server/insta doesn't provide interesting semantics beyond "Oh hey, call a function to run this function automatically"
13:45 samth: not everything has to be useful for large-scale software
13:46 samth: web-server/insta is for quick things
13:46 Sgeo_: I can imagine wanting to write a quick thing with types (say, if I have a heavy Haskell background)
13:46 carleastlund_: Languages don't necessarily combine in one module, but given that modules of different languages can pretty much always interact meaningfully, I'd say we've got a pretty good story for composing languages.  They just compose via require & provide rather than via #lang.
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13:47 Cryovat: Is it possible to have sections in a file with a specific lang?
13:47 stamourv: Cryovat: With submodules, yes.
13:47 didi: Cryovat: I hope not. ;^)
13:47 didi: Aw...
13:48 stamourv: didi: It's not as scary as it sounds.
13:48 samth: stamourv: note that submodules don't provide the full capability of #lang
13:48 carleastlund_: Different bindings, yes.  The #lang-style reader, no.  We don't yet have "#sublang" or whatever we might call it.
13:48 stamourv: samth: That's right.
13:48 samth: #sublang would be tricky
13:48 samth: what would the delimiter be?
13:49 Sgeo_: samth, the sublanguage decides when it's done parsing? That's what Factor syntax words do
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13:49 carleastlund_: We could pick one, or specify one after #sublang, or it could be language-specific.  But the _only_ difficulty is picking a delimiter, I'd say that's a pretty easy problem to solve.
13:49 samth: Sgeo_: that wouldn't work for `racket`, for example
13:50 samth: carleastlund_: yes
13:50 Sgeo_: Maybe not every language needs to be sublang-able
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13:50 Sgeo_: I can imagine different sorts of languages being sublangs than top-level langs
13:50 Sgeo_: XML literals, for example
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13:50 didi: Ught, XML.
13:50 didi: :^)
13:50 Sgeo_: (it was just an example. Taken from Factor)
13:50 samth: Sgeo_: that's mostly a read-syntax issue, not a language per se
13:50 asumu: If only submodules could change the reader.
13:50 carleastlund_: That's not a #lang, that's a #reader.  #lang specifically means a language with bindings for a module.
13:50 stamourv: Sgeo_: You can already have something like that for reader extensions.
13:50 samth: they don't have to be the same
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13:51 asumu: Why not just delimit by (module foo base ...)?
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13:51 stamourv: See `#lang at-exp racket' or `#lang asumu/sweet-exp typed/racket'.
13:51 carleastlund_: asumu: because the language might not have s-expressions to begin with.
13:51 stamourv: (Syntax of the latter is probably wrong.)
13:51 Sgeo_: Oh, I was wondering where I saw "sweet-" before
13:51 didi: I might suggest taking a look at the pains that some people went trying to make a multi-mode for Emacs.
13:52 asumu: Yeah, I suppose you couldn't distinguish an unmatched parenthesis for the (module ...) and the correct thing.
13:52 Sgeo_: (Looked over Adventures of a Pythonista in Schemeland, the person introduced their own macro construct called sweet-macros)
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14:00 didi: Speaking of languages, what about that article about syntax transformations? Is it ready?
14:01 asumu: didi: what article?
14:02 Sgeo_: asumu, fun fact about Clojure: There are 0 (or 1 if you count ambrosebs's) good macroexpanders that expand body forms correctly
14:03 asumu: Sgeo_: Not sure what that means. Do you have an example?
14:04 Sgeo_: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.walk/macroexpand-all is broken.
14:04 Sgeo_: The one used in Clojail is broken
14:04 Sgeo_: asumu, um, the equivalent of expand, I think
14:04 Sgeo_: Is what's not really present in Clojure
14:04 didi: asumu: I remember a while ago, about the time of RacketCon, that someone was writing an article explaining the `syntax-rule' and friends.
14:05 asumu: didi: Ah, yes. You will have to ask ryanc or calvis about that, but I don't think it's complete yet.
14:05 asumu: IIRC they had one chapter complete.
14:05 stamourv: didi: In the meantime, I recommend greghendershott's excellent "Fear of Macros".
14:06 asumu: Sgeo_: oh, that's weird. Weird that they have one but it's broken.
14:06 didi: rudybot: Fetch me that!
14:06 rudybot: didi: elpa ma man, go fetch me this l33t new major mode. ya dig?
14:06 didi: stamourv: I will. Thank you.
14:06 Sgeo_: asumu, I think that walk one was a contribution that is now distributed with Clojure
14:07 didi: asumu: Wow, "one chapter". That will be long then. Cool.
14:07 asumu: Well, maybe "section" is the right word, I don't know.
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14:33 Sgeo_: This is offby1's documentation:
14:33 Sgeo_: "Welcome to my documentation: (list 'testing 1 2 3)."
14:34 didi: Classic offby1.
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14:36 ijp: does offby1 need documentation? The interface seems pretty intuitive to me
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14:36 didi: rudybot: Do you know how to use offby1?
14:36 rudybot: didi: http://googlereader.blogspot.com/2010/01/follow-changes-to-any-website.html
14:36 Sgeo_: Fun fact, rudybot might not run on Windows
14:37 Sgeo_: It uses offby1's zdate, which calls /bin/date in some circumstances (not sure when)
14:40 carleastlund_: rudybot: You just always have to have the last word, don't you?
14:40 rudybot: carleastlund_: This word, it does not mean what you think it means.
14:41 Cryovat: rudybot: Would you mind getting me a cup of tea?
14:41 rudybot: Cryovat: the octopus picked spain to win the world cup
14:41 (quit) klr_: Quit: Lost terminal
14:41 Cryovat: That... is true
14:42 dyoo: I often get the feeling that rudybot is a Vorlon.  I do not understand.
14:42 Cryovat: :D
14:42 carleastlund_: dyoo: Jump.  Jump now!
14:43 Cryovat: dyoo: Understanding is a three edged sword anyway
14:44 didi: Did someone eat that octopus though? I wonder if one could gain clairvoyance powers from it.
14:44 dyoo: didi: either that or they can see invisible monsters
14:44 Cryovat: Clairvoyant Calamari
14:44 carleastlund_: I think you have to find whatever experiment exposed the octopus to dangerous radiation.
14:45 Cryovat: I've read Lovecraft, I know how things go
14:45 Cryovat: You enjoy the ability to predict lottery results for a few weeks
14:45 Cryovat: Then you learn what other things you opened your eyes too ;)
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14:47 Sgeo_: Is it even worth it to try to comprehend Rudybot's code?
14:49 (quit) ijp: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
14:49 didi: Maybe they just tossed it in the trash and now there is a dog somewhere that knows what garbage bag to rip.
14:49 samth: Sgeo_: yes, definitely
14:49 samth: rudybot: source
14:49 rudybot: samth: git clone git://github.com/offby1/rudybot.git
14:51 Sgeo_: This iserver thing does something where command-sym sends to some thread then waits to receive something
14:51 Sgeo_: But what if the thread that calls command-sym receives a message from elsewhere at that moment?
14:52 Sgeo_: Wait, no, I misread it
14:52 Sgeo_: That problem still exists, but it's an anonymous function, not a function called command-sym
14:52 Sgeo_: derp
14:52 Sgeo_: github's hilighting is not helpful here
14:53 Cryovat: Github highlighting for Racket code is pretty icky
14:54 Sgeo_: I guess there is an advantage to defn/defun style over define style for function definitions
14:55 didi: Sgeo_: Aren't them the same?
14:55 didi: s/them/they
14:56 Sgeo_: (define (foo bar baz) ...) vs (defun foo (bar baz))
14:56 didi: Ow, the syntax.
14:56 stamourv: Sgeo_: For exploring unfamiliar codebases, I highly recommend DrRacket's Check Syntax.
14:57 Sgeo_: In the latter, you don't get the inconsistency with lambda, because with both lambda and defun the first argument is right after (
14:57 (join) Kaylin
14:57 didi: Sgeo_: It's a very minor difference IMO, but I prefer `define'.
15:00 Sgeo_: Hmm, Racket doesn't come with a named-lambda?
15:00 (quit) mizu_no_oto: Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]
15:01 carleastlund_: Sgeo_, what are you looking for from named-lambda?
15:02 Sgeo_: Easy recursion in an anonymous function, I guess?
15:03 carleastlund_: Personally I use a local define for that in most cases.  But it would be very easy to write a one-liner macro to do named lambda.
15:03 (quit) Kaylin: Quit: Leaving.
15:03 stamourv: add1 to local `define'.
15:03 Sgeo_: Oh, another point against define's function syntax: (define foo (lambda args ...)) vs (note: not legal in CL) (defun foo args ...)
15:03 carleastlund_: rudybot: (define-syntax-rule (function (name . args) . body) (letrec {[name (lambda args . body)]} name))
15:04 rudybot: carleastlund_: your sandbox is ready
15:04 rudybot: carleastlund_: Done.
15:04 carleastlund_: rudybot: ((function (len xs) (if (null? xs) 0 (add1 (len (rest xs))))) '(1 2 3))
15:04 rudybot: carleastlund_: ; Value: 3
15:04 didi: Sgeo_: Although they both use s-expressions, Racket and Common Lisp are different languages.
15:05 Sgeo_: didi, I'm aware of this, just noting that defun does make some sense over define
15:05 carleastlund_: Sgeo_: How is this a point against?  I'm not arguing, I actually don't see what you're saying yet.
15:05 stamourv: Sgeo_: `(lambda args ...)' has a useful semantics.
15:05 stamourv: rudybot: ((lambda lambda lambda) 1 2 3)
15:05 rudybot: stamourv: your typed/racket sandbox is ready
15:05 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: (1 2 3)
15:05 rudybot: stamourv: ; stdout: "- : (Listof Any)\n"
15:05 (join) ijp
15:05 Sgeo_: carleastlund, because you can usually use define's syntax instead of writing the lambda explicitly, but can't do that when you just want all the args as a list
15:06 asumu: stamourv: perhaps not the most convincing example. ;)
15:06 carleastlund_: rudybot: (define (f . xs) xs)
15:06 rudybot: carleastlund_: Done.
15:06 carleastlund_: rudybot: (f 1 2 3)
15:06 rudybot: carleastlund_: ; Value: (1 2 3)
15:06 carleastlund_: Sgeo_: like that?  ;-)
15:06 Sgeo_: carleastlund, ...oh
15:06 Sgeo_: I was going off of lambda not accepting (. x) I think
15:08 carleastlund_: I like (define (f x1 x2 …) body1 body2 …) because to me it reads "define the application (f x1 x2 …) as equal to evaluating body1 body2 …".  I like that it contains a template application right there.
15:08 anonymous: rudybot: (print "f") "f"
15:08 rudybot: anonymous: now you have to write the macro to print to pdf :)
15:08 anonymous: rudybot: (print "f")
15:08 rudybot: anonymous: your sandbox is ready
15:08 rudybot: anonymous: ; stdout: "\"f\""
15:08 carleastlund_: (. x) is just x, although I agree it would be nice if (. x) were actually accepted by the reader.
15:08 (join) RacketCommitBot
15:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/WNNSVw
15:08 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 9c0a611 Asumu Takikawa: Disallow duplicate type variable declarations...
15:08 (part) RacketCommitBot
15:08 Sgeo_: I still think that rudybot is broken
15:09 Sgeo_: By using thread mailboxes to communicate in that way
15:09 carleastlund_: Note that this is a reader problem, not a lambda problem.  (define f (lambda xs xs)) would be the same as my (define (f . xs) xs) above.
15:09 Sgeo_: I would replace the response mechanism with a channel
15:09 didi: rudybot: Don't listen to them. You're perfect!
15:09 rudybot: didi: really? I should have started to listen beatles, it's shame for me. thanks for giving a reason
15:10 (join) LnL
15:10 carleastlund_: Sgeo_: is rudybot potentially delivering messages out of order or something?
15:11 Sgeo_: carleastlund, as far as I can tell, potentially, trying to send a command to the incubot server could result in getting a reply from something other than the incubot server
15:11 anonymous: is cleverbot a has same parts of cleverbot or something?
15:11 anonymous: the*
15:11 anonymous: or asks cleverbot what to say*... or something
15:12 Sgeo_: carleastlund, would be easy to fix with a channel or async channel
15:12 Sgeo_: Not sure which
15:12 anonymous: rudybot: hi
15:12 rudybot: anonymous: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: hi in module: 'program
15:13 carleastlund_: Sgeo_: Okay, we're in depths of the implementation beyond which I know nothing :)
15:13 Sgeo_: Need to block on reading from it, but probably not block on sending
15:13 Sgeo_: carleastlund, I'm looking at lines 50-52 https://github.com/offby1/rudybot/blob/master/iserver.rkt
15:13 Sgeo_: That looks like an idiom that would be used in Erlang, except in Racket we're not filtering to make sure that we're receiving from who we think we are
15:14 Sgeo_: Ok, just passing an async-channel would do the trick
15:15 anonymous: rudybot: what is version of your racket?
15:15 rudybot: anonymous: 
VERSION WE WERE DOWN, BUT WE ARE NOT OUT!!!  http://www.peoplesprimary.com/ - irc.hardchats.com #gnaa - THIS MESSAGE BROUGHT TO YOU BY INCOG

15:15 asumu: rudybot: (version)
15:15 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
15:15 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: "5.2.900.1"
15:15 anonymous: thx
15:16 Sgeo_: I don't know though if there's a significant chance of the calling thread actually using its mailbox for other purposes
15:16 (quit) serhart: Quit: Leaving.
15:16 (quit) tilde`: Quit: kthxbai
15:16 Sgeo_: If all communication via its mailbox were in that style, there'd be no reason to worry about it
15:16 Sgeo_: But why risk it, exactly?
15:18 carleastlund_: Hubris!
15:18 (join) serhart
15:19 Sgeo_: I don't exactly have a nice way by which I can test changes
15:19 Sgeo_: Wondering if I should just edit it anyway and note the fact that I haven't done testing
15:19 Sgeo_: ^^real hubris
15:19 carleastlund_: Even worse, it's complex hubris.  It has an extra component of imaginary hubris tacked on.
15:21 (join) mjs2600
15:27 Sgeo_: How do I get offby1 to look at my code without implying that e definitely should use it like a pull request?
15:28 (quit) jrslepak: Quit: What happened to Systems A through E?
15:28 (quit) myx: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
15:28 stamourv: Send him a patch?
15:29 Sgeo_ already sent a pull request :/
15:29 Sgeo_: "PLEASE NOTE THAT I DID NOT TEST THIS CODE AT ALL, EVEN WITH CHECK SYNTAX
15:29 Sgeo_: "
15:29 (quit) bitonic: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
15:29 Sgeo_: https://github.com/Sgeo/rudybot/commit/8f0f5a6f391955e751da88460c0626882d543cf7
15:30 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/b6gztv4
15:35 stamourv: Sgeo_: AFAIK, incubot is dead, so that part of rudybot may be obsolete anyway.
15:35 Sgeo_: Oh
15:35 Sgeo_: I don't even know what incubot is
15:35 stamourv: Sadly, so is minion. I've been trying to get someone to extend rudybot to cover minion's duties natively.
15:35 stamourv: incubot is a Chicken Scheme bot, written by klutometis.
15:36 Sgeo_: Ah
15:36 stamourv: I think it may have provided evaluation, too. But in Chicken.
15:36 LnL: Is there a way to customize how a lambda is displayed?
15:36 stamourv: If you're interested in rudybot hacking, minion emulation would be nice. The "later tell" feature, especially.
15:37 stamourv: LnL: What do you mean?
15:38 LnL: If you display a lambda you'll see #<procedure>, I was wondering if it could be changed
15:40 stamourv: rudybot: (procedure-rename (lambda (x) x) 'identity)
15:40 rudybot: stamourv: your typed/racket sandbox is ready
15:40 rudybot: stamourv: error: #<undefined>:1:1: Type Checker: untyped identifier procedure-rename imported from module <typed/racket> in: procedure-rename
15:40 stamourv: rudybot: init racket
15:40 rudybot: stamourv: your sandbox is ready
15:40 stamourv: rudybot: (procedure-rename (lambda (x) x) 'identity)
15:40 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: #<procedure:identity>
15:40 stamourv: LnL: ^
15:40 asumu: (another thing to add to base-env...)
15:40 (quit) Fare: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
15:40 stamourv: Yep.
15:40 stamourv: LnL: If the procedure already has a name, you don't need that.
15:41 (join) bitonic
15:43 Sgeo_: "The word ?indy? is meant to suggest that blame may be assigned to the contract itself, because the contract must be considered an independent component. "
15:43 Sgeo_: Blame the contract, blame the contract, blame the contract, all the blame
15:44 Sgeo_: </sillyness>
15:47 Sgeo_: rudybot, (lambda (_ _) (+ 1 2))
15:47 rudybot: Sgeo_: your racket/kernel sandbox is ready
15:47 rudybot: Sgeo_: error: #<undefined>:1:11: lambda: duplicate argument name at: _ in: (lambda (_ _) (+ 1 2))
15:47 Sgeo_: :(
15:47 LnL: Thanx, that's what I was looking for
15:47 Sgeo_: rudybot, init racket
15:47 rudybot: Sgeo_: your sandbox is ready
15:47 Sgeo_: rudybot, (lambda (_ _) (+ 1 2))
15:47 rudybot: Sgeo_: error: #<undefined>:1:11: lambda: duplicate argument name at: _ in: (lambda (_ _) (+ 1 2))
15:48 Sgeo_: Why was I on racket/kernel :/
15:48 stamourv: Leftover from a previous experiment?
15:48 stamourv: rudybot: Maybe you shouldn't keep leftovers for that long.
15:48 rudybot: stamourv: (The whole thing is just leftovers anyway, and perhaps it should be removed.)
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15:56 anonymous: rudybot: (define a 1)
15:56 rudybot: anonymous: Done.
15:57 anonymous: rudybot: a
15:57 rudybot: anonymous: ; Value: 1
15:57 anonymous: rudybot: b
15:57 rudybot: anonymous: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: b in module: 'program
15:57 anonymous: rudybot: (sqrt 3)
15:57 rudybot: anonymous: ; Value: 1.7320508075688772
15:58 anonymous: rudybot: (* 1.7320508075688772 1.7320508075688772)
15:58 rudybot: anonymous: ; Value: 2.9999999999999996
15:59 anonymous: rudybot: are you sure that (sqrt 3) = 1.7320508075688772 and (* 1.7320508075688772  1.7320508075688772)
15:59 rudybot: anonymous: Have you tried the sqrt procedure on small numbers?
15:59 anonymous: rudybot: are you sure that (sqrt 3) = 1.7320508075688772 and (* 1.7320508075688772  1.7320508075688772) = 2.9999999999999996?
15:59 rudybot: anonymous: (map sqrt '(1 4 9 16 25))  => (1 2 3 4 5)
16:00 anonymous: is 0.(9) equal 1?
16:00 anonymous: sorry
16:00 anonymous: it was to rudybot
16:00 anonymous: rudybot: is 0.(9) equal 1?
16:01 rudybot: anonymous: is there an add-to-ordered-list variant using equal ?
16:02 anonymous: rudybot: nevermind
16:02 rudybot: anonymous: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: nevermind in module: 'program
16:02 anonymous: rudybot: 1 + 2?
16:02 rudybot: anonymous: eh?  Try "rudybot: help".
16:02 anonymous: rudybot: help
16:02 rudybot: anonymous: bug <more> ..., help [<what>], version, quote, source, url, seen <nick>, uptime, t8 <from> <to> <text> ..., init [<lang>], eval <expr> ..., give <to> <expr> ..., apropos <str> ..., desc <id>, doc <id>
16:02 (quit) kofno: Remote host closed the connection
16:02 anonymous: rudybot: help url
16:02 rudybot: anonymous: url: my web page
16:03 anonymous: rudybot: t8 anonymous anonymous "foo bar"
16:03 rudybot: anonymous: Invalid Value
16:03 anonymous: rudybot: t8 anonymous asumu "foo bar"
16:03 rudybot: anonymous: Invalid Value
16:04 anonymous: rudybot: t8 Sgeo_ anonymous "foo bar"
16:04 rudybot: anonymous: Invalid Value
16:04 anonymous: rudybot: help t8
16:04 rudybot: anonymous: t8 <from> <to> <text> ...: translate TEXT from FROM to TO
16:04 anonymous: ah...
16:04 anonymous: rudybot: t8 english japanese "test"
16:04 rudybot: anonymous: Invalid Value
16:05 anonymous: rudybot: t8 en jp "test"
16:05 rudybot: anonymous: Invalid Value
16:05 anonymous: sorry.
16:06 eli: rudybot: t8 he en שקטבבקשה.
16:06 rudybot: eli: Sktbbksh.
16:06 eli: rudybot: t8 he en שקט בבקשה.
16:06 rudybot: eli: Quiet please.
16:13 (quit) mjs2600: Read error: Connection reset by peer
16:14 ijp: rudybot: t8 en ja anonymous: the language code for japan is ja not jp
16:14 rudybot: ijp: 匿名：日本の言語コードはja JPではない
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16:49 Sgeo_: "Solution : Compile the racket code to c code using Chicken Scheme."
16:49 (quit) mizu_no_oto: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
16:51 didi: Sgeo_: I don't think it's possible.
16:52 Sgeo_: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~s76singh/how-to-compile-your-drracket-code/
16:52 Sgeo_: didi, I think the person hasn't seen raco distribute
16:52 didi: Sgeo_: Or Racket.
16:53 didi: Racket is not Scheme.
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16:55 Sgeo_: If you limit yourself harshly, you end up with Scheme code
16:55 Sgeo_: Except for the #lang I guess
16:55 didi: Sgeo_: Then it's not Racket.
16:55 didi: Sgeo_: Also, libraries.
16:55 Sgeo_: See: limit yourself harshly
16:56 didi: Sgeo_: But why would you do that? I mean, you use Racket but limit yourself to Scheme. Then you're not using Racket.
16:57 Sgeo_: Oh, I didn't see his note
16:57 didi: Let's use C++ but limit ourselves to C.
16:57 neilv: ignore that blog post. there are a few things wrong with it
16:58 (quit) anonymous: Read error: Operation timed out
16:58 ozzloy: maybe someone should send him a comment
16:58 Sgeo_: I did
16:59 dyoo: It does bring up the question: why do we have both 'raco exe' and 'raco distribute'?
16:59 neilv: didi: there are perfectly valid reasons to use the racket tools for r5rs, but the rare person who would actually need to do that probably doesn't need to ask newbie questions about it :)
16:59 didi: neilv: oic
16:59 Sgeo_: neilv, does "it's already on my system" count as a reason to use the Racket tools for r5rs?
16:59 Sgeo_: Rather than installing another R5RS Scheme?
17:00 neilv: Sgeo_: sure
17:02 ozzloy: can i use raco exe to write code on ubuntu and create an ms windows exe my sister can use on her computer?
17:03 ijp: neilv: except that you can't really do anything within the confines of the r5rs
17:03 didi: My point is, if you limit yourself to Scheme, it's Scheme and not Racket.
17:04 Sgeo_ assumes that miniKanren is written in R5RS Scheme
17:05 asumu: More like Dan Friedman Scheme. :)
17:05 ijp: the testsuite has some chez specific things
17:06 Sgeo_: Hmm, Chicken Scheme has a Kanren egg, and all that's on PLaneT is miniKanren
17:06 Sgeo_: I'm starting to get jealous of Chicken Scheme eggs
17:06 Cryovat: Shouldn't the Kanren egg be rather trivial to port?
17:07 ozzloy: it seems i have to do the raco exe on an ms windows computer.  is that the case?
17:07 ijp: why port the egg, when you just package the source directly?
17:07 (quit) Fare: Quit: Leaving
17:08 ijp: I packaged minikanren for guile, and the work was basically all adding module forms
17:08 Sgeo_: Guile has a packaging system?
17:08 ijp: yes
17:09 Sgeo_: ozzloy, that seems likely, although I can't say for sure. I know that a lot of languages do that. Off the top of my head, the only exceptions I can think of are JVM (and probably .NET) languages
17:09 ijp: convincing people to use it is the hard part
17:09 Sgeo_: Although I think there was another, that had a platform-independent bytecode
17:09 asumu: Looking at the kanren CVS tree, it looks pretty easy to package for Racket if you wanted to.
17:09 Sgeo_: Oh, I think various Common Lisps and SWI Prolog basically make executables by prepending a platform-specific file to platform-independent stuff
17:10 ijp: asumu: exactly
17:10 Sgeo_: So by changing the platform-specific file, you compile for the different platform without needing to use that platform
17:10 asumu: The reason it's not in Racket is probably because it already has both datalog and racklog.
17:11 Sgeo_: Wait, the CLs I'm thinking of compile to platform-specific code, so... just SWI Prolog?
17:11 Cryovat: Not that Kanren is obvious either
17:11 ozzloy: Sgeo_, :/
17:11 Cryovat: But the *log naming is a bit unfortunate
17:11 ozzloy: Sgeo_, thanks
17:11 Cryovat: datalog especially sounds db related
17:11 ijp: it's supposed to
17:12 didi: Hehe, racklog reminds me of /var/log
17:12 asumu: "Kanren" is great for those of us from some parts of the East. ;)
17:12 Sgeo_: Somewhere some days ago I asked about the difference between Clojure core.logic and Racklog, someone said that Racklog doesn't do constraint-based programming
17:13 ijp: asumu: ah, now I get it
17:13 Sgeo_ doesn't get it
17:14 ijp: Sgeo_: kanren literally means 'relation
17:14 Sgeo_: Ah
17:14 ijp: at least if wwwjdic is to be believed
17:15 Cryovat: On a side note
17:15 Cryovat: I just had a peek at core.logic
17:15 Cryovat: 4200 line source file
17:15 Cryovat shakes fist
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17:15 Sgeo_: Hm?
17:16 asumu: Modules FTW.
17:16 Cryovat: Yeah
17:16 Cryovat: Maintaining files like that is a nightmare
17:20 didi: Cryovat: You have put some ^P marks and narrow them when hacking time comes.
17:20 Cryovat: Eh? :o
17:21 didi: Cryovat: Page marks.
17:21 Cryovat: Ag
17:21 Cryovat: *Ah
17:21 clements_: eli: ping
17:21 Cryovat: I haven't gotten used to Emacs yet
17:21 didi: Cryovat: :^)
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17:50 greghendershott: Cryovat: GitHub highlighting for Racket code will change soon: https://github.com/github/linguist/pull/325
17:51 Cryovat: Awesome :D
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17:57 eli: clements_: pong?
17:57 didi: greghendershott: Nice.
17:58 clements_: eli: silly question: I'm having trouble cloning the plt repo; it downloads about 2 MB, then wedges for a minute, and reports "Write failed: Broken pipe". I recall this being associated with old versions of git, ...
17:58 eli: Possibly, which version do you have?
17:58 clements_: but I'm running 1.8.1, so I can't see how that would be the problem.
17:59 clements_: I have a funny feeling that git is depending on some other package (opens? openssl?) that's out of date. ...
17:59 clements_: To be clear, I'm configuring a new machine, so this is almost certainly my problem. ...
17:59 eli: At least on the server side I can't think of any possible problems.
17:59 bremner: firewalls are often an issue for git:// urils
17:59 clements_: Also, I went to a machine outside (a vps), and it had no problem cloning. So I'm doing something dumb.
17:59 eli: I always keep it with an up to date git
17:59 bremner: clements_: can you clone other things?
18:00 eli: bremner: But he is getting part of it, so it's not a firewall.
18:00 (quit) anonymous: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
18:00 bremner: oh, doh.
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18:00 eli: Also, he should be using ssh for RW access, clements_ -- right?
18:01 clements_: I'm just using git clone git@git.racket.lang.org:clements/a git-clements
18:03 clements_: My personal tree and the plt tree are both getting wedged. It definitely looks like a time thing. I get about ten seconds of data and then it hangs. It's conceivable that it's just Mozilla doing something goofy---I'm inside Mozilla right now.
18:03 eli: If it's exactly ten seconds then it sounds suspicious.
18:04 eli: Do they have any restrictions on SSHing that you know about?
18:06 clements_: no, not that they seem to know of.  Maybe I'll try cloning the tree straight from github.
18:08 clements_: looks like it's going through. I've now got 50 meg from github, and it's going fine.
18:09 clements_: okay, got the full tree from racket. Trying pltgit again.
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18:13 clements_: Huh… after trying 10 times, I finally got the full plt tree. Now I just need my personal tree.
18:16 asumu: clements_: I had rouble earlier today accessing pltgit.
18:16 asumu: s/rou/trou/
18:16 clements_: okay, I'm just going to wait a few hours and try again.
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18:45 dca: hi. how can i make structures contents printed by default
18:45 dca: instead of #<structuname>
18:45 dca: ?
18:45 samth: dca: make the structure #:transparent
18:46 dca: that works thanks
18:46 dyoo: dca: see http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/define-struct.html?q=struct#(part._trans-struct)
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19:13 bremner: eli: when you have some time, I'm still stuck running your old web.rkt script with 5.3.1; it complains that get-resource-path no longer exists.  At the moment I just keep an a copy of racket 5.2 around just to run that script, but I feel a bit silly about that ;).
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19:22 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mqLv_w
19:22 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 3e8b6b9 Matthew Flatt: scribble: add `+m' / `++main-xref-in' flag...
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20:06 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Bbk8FA
20:06 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 27d3042 Asumu Takikawa: Use correct contract for Procedure type...
20:06 (part) RacketCommitBot
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22:02 offby1: Sgeo_: HAPPY NOW?!
22:03 Sgeo_: offby1, cool
22:04 (quit) kofno: Remote host closed the connection
22:04 Sgeo_: Although may I ask why the caps?
22:04 greghendershott: *gets popcorn*
22:06 Sgeo_: Oh, because of my warnings about me not having tested it?
22:06 bremner: offby1: I'm not especially happy, got anything for me?
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22:07 offby1: Sgeo_: BECAUSE I'M LOUD
22:07 offby1: bremner: pot roast.  I have pot roast for you.
22:07 Sgeo_: OKAY
22:07 Sgeo_ needs sleep
22:07 bremner: yay!
22:08 offby1: It's quite good, by the way.  I recommend it.
22:08 bremner: cool.
22:08 offby1: wtf.  ./freenode-main.rkt => iserver.rkt:46:32: client-channel: unbound identifier in module in: client-channel
22:08 offby1: although the various tests pass.
22:08 offby1 stares even more blankly than usual
22:10 offby1: ah, I see.  It's a real live bug!
22:10 Sgeo_: Oh, I see
22:10 Sgeo_: (list client-thread ...)
22:10 (quit) Kaylin: Quit: Leaving.
22:10 Sgeo_: Change that to client-channel
22:10 Sgeo_: line 44
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22:11 Sgeo_: Opinion time: If a change means an identifier's name is no longer accurate, does it make sense to change the name even considering the risk of not changing it everywhere?
22:12 offby1: yeah
22:12 offby1: I'd say: change the name, and make sure you change it everywhere :)
22:12 offby1: No excuse not to.
22:12 offby1 whistles innocently
22:12 Sgeo_: Well, it was my bug, not yours
22:12 (quit) rudybot_: Remote host closed the connection
22:12 offby1: yep
22:13 offby1: but I thank you for one surprising thing: turns out rudybot is working fine with 5.3.1.  It had been failing mysteriously with 5.3
22:13 offby1: rudybot: (banner)
22:13 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
22:13 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: "Welcome to Racket v5.2.900.1.\n"
22:13 offby1: so I kept him stuck on that version
22:13 offby1: I guess they fixed whatever the problem was with 5.3
22:14 Sgeo_: huh, ok
22:14 offby1 wonders what the new rudybot's nick will be
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22:14 offby1: rudybot_: begone, impostor
22:14 rudybot_: offby1: eh?  Try "rudybot_: help".
22:14 Sgeo_: Also, does it require Linux? Because it seems to use zdate and that uses a /bin/date
22:15 offby1: rudybot_: I say: drop dead!  You're not the REAL rudybot.
22:15 rudybot_: offby1: eh?  Try "rudybot_: help".
22:15 offby1: hmm
22:15 offby1: rudybot_: (banner)
22:15 rudybot_: offby1: your sandbox is ready
22:15 rudybot_: offby1: ; Value: "Welcome to Racket v5.3.1.\n"
22:15 offby1: \o/
22:15 offby1: ~
22:15 offby1: / \
22:15 (quit) rudybot_: Remote host closed the connection
22:15 offby1: All fixed.
22:16 offby1: rudybot: so, when are you gonna upgrade yourself, hmm?
22:16 rudybot: *offby1: the answer in my version seems to be no ... and I was wondering if there is some flag I need to set or some upgrade that I need to get
22:16 offby1: wuss
22:16 offby1: I wonder if this means I should give 5.3.1 a try on the "production server" (doesn't that phrase sound grand!)
22:18 neilv: or the pre-release branch for 5.3.2
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22:20 offby1: neilv: I haven't been keeping up; what grooviness will I find there?
22:21 neilv: i don't know, but so long as you're changing versions, might as well change to something that will keep you on the path to not being out-of-date in a few weeks
22:22 neilv: keeping production servers at recent-ish versions of racket is always an expense
22:25 asumu: offby1: yay yay (on 5.3.1)
22:25 offby1: *grumble*
22:25 asumu: rudybot: eval (require racket/generic) 'party
22:25 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
22:25 rudybot: asumu: error: default-load-handler: cannot open input file: "/mnt/racket-5.2.900.1/collects/racket/generic.rkt" (No such file or directory; errno=2)
22:25 asumu: Oh huh.
22:26 offby1: and I just spent twelve seconds deducing the URL for the current release
22:26 asumu: rudybot: init racket
22:26 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
22:26 asumu: rudybot: eval (require racket/generic) 'party
22:26 rudybot: asumu: error: default-load-handler: cannot open input file: "/mnt/racket-5.2.900.1/collects/racket/generic.rkt" (No such file or directory; errno=2)
22:26 offby1: asumu: also, he won't eval two consecutive forms, I don't think
22:26 asumu: rudybot: 'party
22:26 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: party
22:27 Sgeo_: Can a struct be given a property or be made to follow some generic whatever without its co-operation?
22:27 offby1: grr.  The various "Download" buttons on Raket's site do different things: one takes you to a page with links; another actually starts the download.
22:28 Sgeo_: Suppose I have library A that exports a struct and library B that exports a thing that would be useful with that struct, could glue code be written?
22:29 carleastlund_: offby1: which one actually starts the download?  The only ones I've seen that actually download are the list of mirror links.
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22:30 offby1: carleastlund_: the button on http://pre.racket-lang.org/installers/ actually starts a download
22:32 carleastlund_: Ah, okay, yes.  Well, the whole interface for the pre-release installers is different anyway.  I've no idea if the mirrors actually host the pre-releases, I doubt it given the haphazard update schedule.
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22:41 eli: jeapostrophe: ping
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22:41 jeapostrophe: eli: pong
22:41 eli: I'm just about done writing you an email about the DNS question.
22:42 eli: Just thought that you might be here too late.
22:42 eli: In any case, I just sent it.
22:42 jeapostrophe: I'm on my way to bed actually... so I'll have to check it out in detail in the morning
22:42 eli: Bah.
22:42 eli: I was hoping to do the change now...
22:43 eli: I'll do it tomorrow then.
22:43 jeapostrophe: k, i'll read it
22:44 jeapostrophe: the ip is very unlikely to change
22:44 jeapostrophe: so the racket-lang.org names can go to the IP
22:44 jeapostrophe: and I'll set up the virtual host server to recognize those names
22:44 jeapostrophe: and then we can change the docs/defaults to use the r-l.o names
22:45 eli: OK, so I'll set up the DNS records soon, and by tomorrow they should be working fine.
22:45 jeapostrophe: great
22:46 eli: BTW, why "pnr", I thought it was supposed to be "pns", no?
22:46 jeapostrophe: email me when you do and i'll setup and test the virtual names on the server in morning
22:46 eli: ok
22:46 jeapostrophe: I thought that Matthew renamed it to PNR in the docs?
22:46 eli: Oh, I'll ask him then.
22:46 jeapostrophe: ya, it is
22:47 jeapostrophe: i just checked
22:47 jeapostrophe: "A package name resolver (PNR) ..."
22:47 eli: What does pnr stand for?
22:47 eli: Ah.
22:47 eli: ok.
22:47 carleastlund_: Anyone know what $ADDONDIR/planet/$VERSION/cache.rktd is for?
22:48 jeapostrophe: k, night night
22:52 offby1: Nuts.  5.3.1 still dumps core on my EC2 box
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23:05 asumu: Sgeo_: no (on the generics question). Assuming I understand your question (let me try to repeat it).
23:05 asumu: Basically you want A to define a generic interface, B to some struct, and C to extend B's struct to use A's interface?
23:06 Sgeo_: Yes
23:06 asumu: What you *can* do: define a sub-struct that implements A's interface.
23:06 asumu: What you can't do: back-patch instances of B to implement A.
23:06 Sgeo_: Hrm
23:07 Sgeo_: There are Scheme-y OO systems that would allow for that though, aren't there?
23:07 asumu: Depending on what you mean by Scheme-y, yes. Guile has GOOPs, for example. The generics library was designed not to allow such backpatching.
23:08 asumu: Because it's basically some hidden mutation.
23:12 Sgeo_: Hidden mutation isn't necessarily evil
23:12 Sgeo_: Any Haskell implementation is going to do hidden mutation to turn lazy thunks into values when that thunk is forced
23:12 asumu: That's unobservable mutation.
23:13 asumu: It's an optimization over call-by-name basically.
23:13 asumu: You can definitely observe a mutation of a method table of some object.
23:17 asumu: Finally started to document my random pict/slideshow stuff: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/asumu/pict-stuff/pict-util.html
23:19 jonrafkind: ryb.. never heard of that
23:19 jonrafkind: why do you use such a thing?
23:20 asumu: RYB is just the thing you learn in elementary school where you mix paint basically.
23:20 asumu: It can be nice if you want to make a visualization where colors "naturally" blend together.
23:21 asumu hasn't really used it for anything yet
23:21 jonrafkind: i thought hsv was the best colorspace for naturally blending stuff
23:21 jonrafkind: since all you have to modify is h
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23:22 asumu: They're probably both useful. Maybe RYB is more useful if you start out with two colors you want to mix.
23:23 jonrafkind: i guess its been too many years using rgb, i can't figure out any color combination in ryb
23:23 jonrafkind: yellow + blue = green??
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23:25 asumu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Color_star-en.svg
23:29 carleastlund_: Argh, I wish removing planet packages weren't such an iffy business.  Any time I have more than one to remove, it's easier to just blow away my planet directory entirely and start from scratch.
23:30 asumu: carleastlund_: and you have to remove every version individually too...
23:33 neilv: do you have to remove planet packages often?
23:34 carleastlund_: neilv: I don't do much actively with planet any more, but any time I do (or any time I have in the past), it generally comes up once or twice for some reason or another.
23:35 carleastlund_: For instance, if I pull in something with an ancient reference to cce/scheme:4, all my "race setup" runs are going to be filled with build errors, so I eventually want to rip it out.  Except then I have to figure out everything that depends on it, and rip that out too.  And so on.
23:35 carleastlund_: "raco setup"
23:35 carleastlund_: Apparently I have autocorrect turned on :(
23:37 carleastlund_: And apparently "check spelling as you type" means "pervert your words silently, then send them out to the world".  As opposed to friendly and harmless little red underlines or something.
23:37 neilv: i also take the approach of blow away ~/.racket at first sign of planet problems: http://www.neilvandyke.org/dotracket-enema/
23:37 neilv: i haven't had to use it much lately, though
23:38 carleastlund_: I keep all my stuff in the relevant plt tree, so any time I change version or swap to a different installation, it goes away anyway.