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00:18 lewis1711: TIL that not only is there eq? eqv? and equal? there is also =. seems to be for numbers only
00:19 lewis1711: (in docs)
00:20 mithos28: lewis1711: And symbol=?, boolean=? bytes=? ...
00:20 asumu has never found an occasion to use boolean=?
00:22 asumu: Hmm, also it's a little weird that symbol=? is in racket/bool.
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00:32 sw2wolf: Are there any books about racket ?
00:32 lewis1711: wouldn't symbol=? just be eq?
00:33 sw2wolf: lewis1711: i think so
00:35 lewis1711: it'd be a sad state of affairs if you needed an equality proc for every single type
00:37 sw2wolf: I feel such a thing should be polymorphic too
00:37 mithos28: How do you define the base case for the polymorphic one?
00:38 sw2wolf: it is hard ?
00:38 mithos28: no, but you would delegate to the type specific one
00:38 sw2wolf: maybe it OOP thing ?
00:40 lewis1711: I dunno, how does eq? work
00:40 lewis1711: dynamic dispatch?
00:40 lewis1711: that is one thing I dislike about scheme/racket. lack of polymorphism. you have to have map and vector-map... though for/$whatever forms solve much of htis
00:40 sw2wolf: Is it difficult to uniform eq? eqv? equal?
00:40 lewis1711: *this
00:42 asumu: lewis1711: eq? is built-in and non-extensible. equal? uses generic dispatch on custom datatypes.
00:43 asumu: If you want polymorphic operations over lists, vectors, etc. you can use sequence operations.
00:43 asumu: rudybot: eval (sequence-map add1 '(1 2 3)) (sequence-map add1 #(1 2 3))
00:43 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: #<sequence>
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00:44 sw2wolf: Sometimes many choices are not so good ...
00:44 lewis1711: sequence-map is limited
00:44 lewis1711: rudybot:  (sequence-map + '(1 2 3) '(3 4 2))
00:44 rudybot: lewis1711: your sandbox is ready
00:44 rudybot: lewis1711: error: procedure sequence-map: expects 2 arguments, given 3: #<procedure:+> '(1 2 3) '(3 4 2)
00:44 lewis1711: I'd much rather use the for forms
00:45 lewis1711: rudybot: (for*/list ([i '(1 2 3)][j '(3 4 2)]) (+ i j))
00:45 rudybot: lewis1711: ; Value: (4 5 3 5 6 4 6 7 5)
00:45 lewis1711: LOL..
00:45 asumu: That'll probably be changed sometime, but sure. I'm just saying you can define polymorphic operations.
00:45 lewis1711: rudybot: (for/list ([i '(1 2 3)][j '(3 4 2)]) (+ i j))
00:45 rudybot: lewis1711: ; Value: (4 6 5)
00:45 lewis1711: ah
00:45 lewis1711: asumu: has htere been talk about it? good to hear
00:46 sw2wolf: me too
00:46 lewis1711: sw2wolf: hmm?
00:46 asumu: You can already define your own polymorphic functions. http://blog.racket-lang.org/2012/11/generics.html
00:46 asumu: (that's a blog article I wrote about the topic recently)
00:47 lewis1711: reading blog now
00:47 lewis1711: have often wondered why this didn't work
00:48 lewis1711: rudybot: (sequence-ref 'x (make-hash '((x . 1))))
00:48 rudybot: lewis1711: error: sequence-ref: expected argument of type <sequence>; given: 'x
00:48 lewis1711: rudybot: (sequence-ref (make-hash '((x . 1))) 'x)
00:48 rudybot: lewis1711: error: sequence-ref: expected argument of type <nonnegative exact integer>; given: 'x
00:48 lewis1711: ah
00:49 asumu: Hashtables implement the dictionary interface. They're not really sequences because they have no notion of order.
00:49 asumu: rudybot: (dict-ref (make-hash '((x . 1))) 'x)
00:49 rudybot: asumu: error: car: expects argument of type <pair>; given: #f
00:50 lewis1711: that makes sense i guess
00:50 asumu: Hmm, that's odd. That works in my REPL.
00:51 lewis1711: thought rudybot was pre 5.3
00:51 asumu: Generic interfaces have been around for a long time. 5.3 just makes them more convenient.
00:52 lewis1711: seems almost CLOSy
00:53 asumu: It is related, but it's more like Clojure's protocols.
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00:54 lewis1711: hmmm I could probably use this for my prototype object system. would save me writing macros
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00:58 lewis1711: good write up asumu. I had difficulty parsing the reference
01:00 asumu: Thanks. :) Yeah, we will probably write a Guide entry for generics at some point.
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01:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/wMt--w
01:04 RacketCommitBot: racket/master d716314 Asumu Takikawa: Forgot to add the test for commit b4dd3b5e1dcb...
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02:00 lewis1711: how do you make syntax-rules treat something as a "literal"?
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02:03 jonrafkind: (syntax-rules (literals go here) [...])
02:08 lewis1711: oh. that's what the arguments are for
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02:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/XQfQQw
02:17 RacketCommitBot: racket/master e4f5a05 Neil Toronto: Changed how array strictness works: `array-strict' now makes the...
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04:49 lewis1711: http://pastebin.com/QT15WLr9 I want to use the macro at 133 (def-method) inside the macro at 74 (make-table) but I am... well confused. I have macro spaghetti code. how could I go about it?
04:50 lewis1711: (if test cases would help anyone understand this, i can paste them too)
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09:00 soegaard: rudybot: (begin (require unstable/sequence) (for/sum ([(a d (in-pairs '(1 2 3)))]) a))
09:00 rudybot: soegaard: your sandbox is ready
09:00 rudybot: soegaard: error: #<undefined>:1:45: for/sum: bad sequence binding clause at: ((a d (in-pairs (quote (1 2 3))))) in: (for/sum (((a d (in-pairs (quote (1 2 3)))))) a)
09:00 soegaard: rudybot: (begin (require unstable/sequence) (for/sum ([(a d) (in-pairs '(1 2 3))]) a))
09:00 rudybot: soegaard: error: car: expects argument of type <pair>; given: 1
09:02 lewis1711: soegaard: what is d supposed to be?
09:02 soegaard: The cdr.
09:03 soegaard: I was hoping to get 1 (2 3)   then 2 (3)   and finally 3 ()
09:04 soegaard: I can't find any examples nor any tests for in-pairs.
09:04 lewis1711: yeah I am reading the docs  of it now and I don't get it
09:05 lewis1711: ...which is hardly surprising. best of luck
09:08 soegaard: rudybot: (begin (require unstable/sequence) (for/sum ([(a d) (in-pairs '((1 . 2) (3 . 4)))]) a))
09:08 rudybot: soegaard: ; Value: 4
09:09 soegaard: Not what I needed.
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09:14 torog: how get an element's index in a list?
09:19 soegaard: Here is a convoluted way:
09:19 soegaard: rudybot: (for/first ([(s i) (in-indexed (in-list '(a b c d e f)))]
09:19 rudybot: soegaard: doc in-indexed
09:19 soegaard: #:when (eq? s 'd))
09:19 soegaard: i)
09:19 soegaard: rudybot: (for/first ([(s i) (in-indexed (in-list '(a b c d e f)))]  #:when (eq? s 'd)) i)
09:19 rudybot: soegaard: ; Value: 3
09:21 soegaard: rudybot: (require srfi/1) (list-index odd? '(2 4 6 5 2))
09:21 rudybot: soegaard: SRFI-1 has a LIST-INDEX procedure
09:21 soegaard: rudybot: (begin (require srfi/1) (list-index odd? '(2 4 6 5 2)))
09:21 rudybot: soegaard: ; Value: 3
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09:28 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/x38h4g
09:28 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 540bab8 Matthew Flatt: setup/getinfo: allow a path string for `get-info/full'
09:28 RacketCommitBot: racket/master b1fe666 Matthew Flatt: errortrace: remove redundant expansion
09:28 RacketCommitBot: racket/master cbe0831 Matthew Flatt: fix problem with re-expansion and renamed imports
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10:41 epsil: I am writing an article on parser combinators, using Racket as a demonstration language. Maybe someone can give me critical feeedback on the code?
10:41 epsil: https://github.com/epsil/gll/
10:41 epsil: Fair warning: the article is quite long.
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10:43 dca-: epsil:
10:43 dca-: > I especially recommend you to read Spiewak's paper. It is a very good paper
10:44 dca-: 2 much papers :3
10:44 dca-: epsil: also you start using the term "parser combinator" without defining what it is.
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10:48 dca-: i think it's important to polish the introduction - whether reader will decide to read the article depends on introduction
10:48 dca-: but i like it overally
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10:56 samth: epsil: that's awesome!
10:56 samth: epsil: you may get more feedback by posting to the mailing list
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11:01 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/EYOMgA
11:01 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 7ac80bb Robby Findler: make the paren highlight use non alpha=1 colors so that...
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11:13 epsil: samth: which of the mailing lists?
11:14 epsil: dca-: I agree that the introduction is a little abrupt. I'll add some context and motivation
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11:31 samth: epsil: dev@ might be better
11:34 asumu: epsil: neat! Will take a look.
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11:40 dyoo: epsil: try the Racket Users mailing list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/users/
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11:47 dyoo: epsil: thanks for writing this.  Highly relevant to me since I'm starting to look at my autogrammar project again.
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11:53 epsil: dyoo: you're welcome :)
11:58 asumu: epsil: using data/queue or data/gvector for your trampoline% stack might be clearer than doing it manually with mcons.
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12:07 epsil: asumu: thanks for the tip, I'll look into that
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12:40 asumu: epsil: also, am I wrong to think that `make-stream` does the same thing as `stream`?
12:42 asumu: Just finished skimming it. Very nice article.
12:43 asumu: Another interesting paper to read on this topic: http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~jsobel/Parsing/explicit.html
12:43 asumu: (using monads to, among other things, optimize combinator parsers)
12:44 asumu: epsil: do you plan to build this as a general-purpose library?
12:49 epsil: asumu: thanks. the local function `stream` converts the list of recently produced results (usually an one-element list, but occasionally more) into a stream
12:49 epsil: my goal was just to demonstrate the principles. I think Racket is awesome as a teaching language.
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12:57 epsil: but yeah, one could build a library from this, although I don't know Racket well enough to pronounce on the most efficient way to implement things
13:02 asumu: epsil: ok, well, I think a combinator parser library would be a great thing to have. There's one on planet, but it's not well documented and I'm not sure if it handles left recursion.
13:03 asumu: In any case, I agree that sharing this on the mailing list is the way to go. :)
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13:11 Blkt: good evening everyone
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13:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/eDWorw
13:24 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 5d1bb74 Jon Rafkind: [honu] ignore braces when computing syntax result for a pattern
13:24 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 943ac79 Jon Rafkind: [honu] add operator which creates simple lambdas
13:24 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 67c6da0 Jon Rafkind: [honu] return a parsed syntax object immediately if the parser has a current expression
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14:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/-dqSfA
14:43 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 46fb05e Ryan Culpepper: ignore reset result, reset on error...
14:43 RacketCommitBot: racket/master fa21ce3 Ryan Culpepper: add diagnostics for SQLITE_BUSY
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15:05 ozzloy: are macros first-class in racket?
15:05 asumu: ozzloy: no, although it depends on what you mean by that.
15:05 ozzloy: can a macro be a return value, does it have literal syntax, can it be an argument, can it be stored in a variable
15:05 asumu: They are not first-class values in the sense that a function is, no.
15:06 asumu: Not at runtime, that is.
15:06 ozzloy: ic
15:06 asumu: At compile-time, they are just functions.
15:06 ozzloy: macros are entirely compile-time
15:06 ozzloy: ?
15:06 asumu: Yes.
15:07 ozzloy: entirely for transforming code to as though you had written something else
15:07 ozzloy: ?
15:08 asumu: More or less, yes.
15:08 ozzloy: "Racket is awesome as a teaching language." makes me think of "i really like you, as a friend"
15:09 ozzloy: asumu, thanks
15:09 ozzloy: asumu, do you charge for your tutoring, or is this gratis?
15:10 asumu: No, but my job is working on Racket.
15:10 stamourv: ozzloy: Racket is certainly useful beyond teaching.
15:10 ozzloy: stamourv, preaching to the choir
15:11 asumu: (although feel free to send a cheque for a million dollars to PLT Inc)
15:11 ozzloy: asumu, heh
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15:21 ozzloy: stamourv, what i mean is, they both sound like one side trying to say something nice and the other side wanting something more
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15:22 stamourv: ozzloy: I disagree.
15:22 ozzloy: oh
15:22 ozzloy: go on?
15:23 stamourv: Quite a few people say that python is a great teaching language (which which I disagree).
15:23 stamourv: But I don't think anyone thinks that python is a toy because of that.
15:23 ozzloy: asumu, how do you get paid to work on racket?
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15:24 ozzloy: stamourv, i know what to say at my next rejection!
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15:28 ozzloy: (that was a joke)
15:30 ozzloy: stamourv, that's a good way of looking at it.  maybe that's the sense in which it was said
15:31 stamourv: I do agree that sometimes, teaching needs and development needs pull in different directions.
15:32 stamourv: I think that Racket's approach (using multiple, interoperating languages) mostly solves that, and in a pretty elegant way.
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15:34 ozzloy: racket has some pretty elegant solutions to other things.  i'm willing to bet it has a good solution for this too.  though i'm not too familiar with it, so i'll have to take your word
15:34 ozzloy: like submodules test and main
15:35 ozzloy: those are much more pleasing than if __FILE__ == $0:
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16:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/gCp6SQ
16:02 RacketCommitBot: racket/master b3b56fa Matthew Flatt: unbreak PLaneT install
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16:28 ozzloy: what's the name of the form of the ",@elements" part of parser.rkt shown here: http://hashcollision.org/brainfudge/#(part._.Parsing_the_surface_syntax)
16:28 ozzloy: ?
16:29 ozzloy: is that unquote in front of @ in front of an identifier?  i'm guessing @ makes it splat the elements list out
16:30 ozzloy: (oh, nm it looks like you can search ",@" in the manuals.  cool.  i expected that not to work)
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16:34 ozzloy: splicing is the term i wanted, not splat
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16:43 jonrafkind: hm racket emails are strange today, im receiving emails that were sent hours ago just now
16:47 asumu: jonrafkind: I'm even getting things out of order, like replies before the original.
16:47 asumu: Which is kinda odd.
16:47 stamourv: Same ehre.
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17:27 jonrafkind: what exactly does it mean in the macro stepper when there is id:234, what is that number?
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17:27 samth: jonrafkind: it's like the colors
17:27 samth: it uses numbers when it runs out of colors
17:27 samth: it means a particular transcription step
17:28 jonrafkind: hm i used an (emit-remark) so it shows my remark at the top then "while executing macro transformer in <stx1> while executing macro transformer in <stx2>"
17:28 jonrafkind: <stx1> comes from <stx2> but stx1 has different numbers on it
17:28 jonrafkind: even though its the same expression
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17:30 jonrafkind: ok but anyway im wondering when marks are applied. im executing a function at phase 1 which returns syntax but it seems to have a different set of marks than the rest of the syntax produced by the transformer
17:30 jonrafkind: I thought the expander applies marks when it invokes a macro
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17:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 17 new commits to master: http://git.io/hemFGQ
17:59 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 29d54fb Sam Tobin-Hochstadt: Starting on control typing.
17:59 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 5fbeffa Asumu Takikawa: Contract generation for continuation mark keys
17:59 RacketCommitBot: racket/master e123e85 Asumu Takikawa: Fix continuation-mark-set-first type
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18:15 lewis1711: anyone know why I am getting " #%datum: keyword used as an expression in: #:parents " at 16?
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18:16 jonrafkind: how did you invoke the functin
18:17 lewis1711: jonrafkind: I don't understand. 16 invoked it. which is a macro.
18:18 jonrafkind: 16 is a macro?
18:18 lewis1711: well "define" is a macro, so is "make-table" (the defn of which is begins at line 4)
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18:31 lewis1711: http://pastebin.com/SkH1f45z if I uncomment the "make-table" at line 6, and comment the one below it, line 26 executes without a hitch. However as it stands, line 26 gives me " root: undefined;
18:31 lewis1711: cannot reference an identifier before its definition"
18:31 lewis1711: yet both have use root inside their forms, and in both cases it's defined after make-table
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18:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/sW8m-A
18:57 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 2f94e17 Danny Yoo: Add an abstracted red-black tree that can take a custom node combinator.
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19:11 asumu: lewis1711: your first clause will always match before your second clause (in syntax-rules). Did you mean it to be that way?
19:17 asumu: http://pltgames.com/ <-- this should be fun to do with #langs.
19:19 jonrafkind: hm the macro stepper isn't displaying my emit-remark.. is there some other way to "see" the marks on a syntax object?
19:22 lewis1711: asumu: sorry which first clause?
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19:44 asumu: lewis1711: in your make-table macro.
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20:17 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/H4YHiQ
20:17 RacketCommitBot: racket/master d94d479 Robby Findler: added 'boolean' pattern to Redex...
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20:47 lewis1711: asumu: oh I see why the old one works and the new one doesn't. the old one expected [k v] form and this one takes any old form so it always matches the first. thanks for pointing that out.
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21:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 5 new commits to master: http://git.io/vRI5vQ
21:09 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 381d9d8 Matthew Flatt: raco pkg: switch from "METADATA.rktd" to "info.rkt"...
21:09 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 567a84c Matthew Flatt: raco pkg install: limit `raco setup' to installed collections...
21:09 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 7712d1a Matthew Flatt: call "Planet2" just "the package manager" in its docs
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21:51 asumu: lewis1711: I think you asked something how macros compose yesterday.
21:51 asumu: The usual way that you compose macros is that one expands to the other.
21:52 asumu: That's why most macros invocations won't locally expand their contents.
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22:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/HItvKA
22:32 RacketCommitBot: racket/master d6efcde Robby Findler: docs fixes related to somewhat recent DrRacket window...
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22:34 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/PT4Cag
22:34 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 03daa7f Robby Findler: whoops; @racket[] should have been @method[]
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23:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/_P9drw
23:46 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 7026760 Asumu Takikawa: Ignore contracted proxies from `racket`
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