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00:49 sw2wolf: Anybody here has ever tasted RWind (https://github.com/Metaxal/RWind/) ?
00:50 mithos28: I have not.
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01:04 neilv: whatever it is, i hope they make it tiling. xmonad is very nice
01:08 sw2wolf: I am using stumpwm
01:08 mithos28: I used to use xmonad, till I was having issues my synergy setup and the meta key wasn't working
01:09 sw2wolf: RWind seems too simple and not practical, but it is a good tutorial to study racket
01:09 mithos28: Then I just switched to the default wm on the machine
01:10 neilv: the popular xmonad tutorial, about the first thing it does is has you rebind your meta key
01:10 sw2wolf: It is VERY hard to find a general application developed using racket
01:10 mithos28: Synergy broke it, it worked for a long time until I upgraded synergy
01:11 mithos28: I use two windows for most of my work, 1 xterm running screen and 1 window of chrome holding all my tabs. So I didn't lose much by switching
01:13 sw2wolf: stumpwm makes tmux/screen useless for me
01:14 mithos28: Why?
01:14 sw2wolf: i mean my desktop only
01:15 mithos28: huh?
01:17 sw2wolf: How to input Y in racket code ?
01:18 sw2wolf: i mean lambda symbol
01:18 sw2wolf: using emacs
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01:30 neilv: Subject: [SECURITY] [DSA 2576-1] trousers security update
01:30 SHODAN: Haffe, I hope you have a pleasant stay on Citadel Station..
01:30 mithos28: your pants use encryption?
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01:41 neilv: people still writing servers in unsafe languages
01:42 mithos28: neilv: what do you mean by unsafe languages?
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01:44 neilv: unsafe languages like c, obviously
01:44 neilv: if you use c, trouser vulnerability will be exposed and exploited
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01:44 neilv: get a racket in your trousers
01:44 mithos28: but my trousers arn't servers
01:45 neilv: "resolve-path" doesn't go through each step of the path, does it?
01:46 mithos28: I don't think it is recursive
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02:24 Cryovat: neilv: Did someone make a flippant suggestion about belts yet? :D
02:25 neilv: someone was just asking Y. probably meant YKK zippers
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02:49 neilv: (find-system-path 'temp-dir) gives priority to /var/tmp and /usr/tmp over /tmp
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03:52 lewis1711: 'define: not an identifier, identifier with default, or keyword for procedure argument in: (define new-x (+ x (mobile-x m)))' what does that even mean?
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03:55 neilv: is that (define ...) expression in the arguments for another procedure or lambda?
03:58 lewis1711: ...oh. I deleted a bracket by mistake
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04:55 neilv: gah. resolve-path, given an absolute path, can yield a relative path
04:56 neilv: that's documented, but i did not see it
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07:11 megabeest: When a shift-expression is enclosed by a lambda and then a reset, what is captured? (reset (lambda (n) (+ n (shift k k)))) for example, i expected to reduce to (lambda (v) (lambda (n) (+ n v))).
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07:56 neilv: i now have a "canonicalize-path" procedure
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10:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/MpSRTg
10:07 RacketCommitBot: racket/master fdfaf6b Jens Axel Søgaard: Added von Mangoldt function
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10:11 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ZWUNjA
10:11 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 50c03c3 Jens Axel Søgaard: Renamed polygonal functions to include -number the name.
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10:20 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/HyLOJw
10:20 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 961f5e4 Matthew Flatt: fix untagged cpointer as place-channel message...
10:20 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 4e0fac0 Matthew Flatt: JIT: fix allocation of came-lambda closures over flonums...
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10:30 asumu: re: style coach from the mailing list, I think we should call it a "code stylist" or "
10:30 asumu: Racket stylist" ;)
10:30 asumu: (gradually Racket tools will cover all professions...)
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10:31 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/fq-7dg
10:31 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 9f5324b Matthew Flatt: fix quoted submodule path in `all-from-out'
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11:49 francisl: hi, is there a library or language built-in that make possible transparent multi-process communication (a la erlang)
11:49 francisl: ?
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12:06 mye: francisl: places is the name but it's not like erlang AFAIK
12:07 francisl: I'm looking for something that can expand on multicore and multicomputer
12:08 bremner: francisl: maybe this is helpful: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/concurrency.html?q=concurrency
12:09 bremner: that is reference, but it links back to various tutorial style things.
12:13 francisl: distributed places? I ll take a look, thank you
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14:36 mye: do people write unit tests for phases > 0 (eg. check if two syntax values are equal?) ?
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14:38 mithos28: mye: you can, but if you are writing something complicated enough to be tested, then you might put it in its own module and write it at phase 0 and import it at its use at phase 1 but its test at phase 0
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14:51 mye: mithos28: I thought it a good idea to test a macro in the usual (module+ test) but it expands to a (define) so I was confused how to test it, but wrapping the macro in (syntax) should do the trick
14:54 mye: oh no, then it isn't expanded.
14:55 mye: gonna try quasisyntax
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16:41 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/923Gzg
16:41 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 3a04bed Robby Findler: avoid calling client->screen with numbers out of its domain...
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17:42 mithos28: Is there any way to get contracts when using TR?
17:42 mithos28: some of my invariants don't match up well to types, too complicated
17:43 jonrafkind: can't you put them in a separate module?
17:44 jonrafkind: i thought the point of TR was that it let contracted values flow through module boundaries
17:44 jonrafkind: although I think TR should let you give a contract for values inside a typed module if you don't feel like/can't give it a proper type
17:44 mithos28: TR can construct contracts corresponding to types, but it cannot typecheck code using racket/contract
17:45 mithos28: thus I cannot use contracts in a TR program
17:45 mithos28: I want my binding to be a typed binding so that many of the invariants are checked at compile time and so that it can be used in other TR modules
17:46 mithos28: The contract I want is (symbol? hash? -> any) and that the hash contains the symbol as a key
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19:04 mye: how do I get the type tag from a value? eg. (type 'foo) -> symbol
19:08 jonrafkind: is this related to TR?
19:09 jonrafkind: or you mean (type 1) -> integer ?
19:09 mye: the latter
19:09 jonrafkind: http://planet.racket-lang.org/display.ss?package=describe.plt&owner=williams this package will do it I think
19:09 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/25tfz87
19:10 mye: the reason this is not built in is .. bad style if used in a serious program? Something else?
19:11 jonrafkind: i dunno
19:11 mithos28: how do you describe structures?
19:12 mithos28: what about structures for which you don't have the inspector privilages for?
19:18 mye: I thought there was a type tag associated with every runtime value and the (type) function could just print that
19:19 mithos28: mye: There is but you need special privileges to look at it.
19:20 mithos28: for many values, all parts of the program have it. But not for non-transparent structure.s
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19:27 mye: could read access to the type tags make the language unsafe?
19:28 mithos28: mye: yes because you lose data hiding
19:28 mithos28: if you can look at the type tag you may be able to tell more information about the value then you should be able to
19:29 mye: but if the value is immutable?
19:29 mithos28: you can still distinguish values
19:33 mye: In the module where the value is defined code should be able to read the type tag then, it already knows everything?!
19:33 mye: well, the programmer does.
19:34 mithos28: mye: no only code that is executing with the current inspector having those privileges should
19:35 mithos28: and there already is such a function for all custom datatypes
19:35 mithos28: rudybot: doc struct-info
19:35 rudybot: mithos28: your sandbox is ready
19:35 rudybot: mithos28: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/inspectors.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._struct-info))
19:50 mithos28: Is it possible to run racket on android without rooting the device?
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20:04 asumu: Fun: http://blog.racket-lang.org/2012/11/roman-numerals-in-racket-sources.html
20:07 mithos28: Wow its only VL lines of code long
20:08 jonrafkind: what an illuminating post..
20:10 sw2wolf: Does #'foo mean a function in racket as CL does ?
20:10 mithos28: sw2wolf: no
20:10 mithos28: you just need foo
20:10 mithos28: rudybot: (define (f x) (+ 3 x))
20:10 rudybot: mithos28: Done.
20:10 mithos28: rudybot: (map f (list 3 4 5))
20:10 rudybot: mithos28: ; Value: (6 7 8)
20:11 jonrafkind: #'foo means (syntax foo)
20:11 jonrafkind: like 'foo means (quote foo)
20:12 sw2wolf: oj, i see. Scheme has 1 name space
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20:14 sw2wolf: How to understand [str (symbol->string (syntax->datum #'any))] ?
20:15 mithos28: you need to notice that any is bound to a pattern variable
20:15 sw2wolf: yes
20:16 mithos28: and #' replaces any pattern variable bindings with the actual value
20:16 sw2wolf: then what is its syntax ?
20:16 mithos28: it will be the identifier that was unbound
20:16 jonrafkind: the identifier is a symbol as its raw datum
20:16 jonrafkind: so if you pull out the raw datum from the syntax object you get a symbol back
20:17 jonrafkind: you can also have things like numbers and strings in the syntax object
20:17 sw2wolf: very clear, thx
20:18 jonrafkind: this is exactly why his post is bad.. oh well
20:20 mithos28: jonrafkind: That seems like it is just requiring the readers to understand syntax-case, the use without explanation of #%datum and #%top seem worse
20:20 sw2wolf: Then #'foo same as ,foo in CL ?
20:20 jonrafkind: CL has syntax objects?
20:20 jonrafkind: i thought it just pushed s-expressions around
20:20 sw2wolf: CL has macro too
20:20 mithos28: sw2wolf: I have no idea what ,foo means in CL. But I doubt it, for the same reasons as jonrafkind
20:21 jonrafkind: yes but afaik CL macros are just based on lists of symbols
20:21 jonrafkind: like the raw datum's that racket uses
20:22 jonrafkind: i.e. no lexical context
20:22 sw2wolf: CL indeed has lexical context
20:23 mithos28: sw2wolf: lexical scope is different than the lexical context attached to syntax objects
20:23 sw2wolf: oh...
20:23 jonrafkind: sw2wolf, CL macros are unhygienic. if you rebind 'x' over user's code you can shadow their own bindings
20:25 sw2wolf: yes
20:29 mithos28: If I want to write a for/list loop that adds two values to the list per iteration is there an easy way to do that without writing a for/fold manually?
20:37 sw2wolf: "[]" makes racket code more clear,what does "[]" really mean in racket ?
20:37 mithos28: sw2wolf: They are no different than ()s
20:38 sw2wolf: oh,just used for clear code ?
20:38 mithos28: yep
20:38 sw2wolf: thx
20:38 mithos28: almost, they can be detected and code can do different things. This only used for languages where they do mean different thigs
20:38 mithos28: like r6rs, which doesn't allow {} afaik
20:39 sw2wolf: i clojure, [] {} has special meaning
20:40 sw2wolf: up to now i havenot seen {} in racket code
20:40 mithos28: its not commonly used
20:40 jonrafkind: carl uses it i guess
20:40 mithos28: I think sk uses it plai for examples of the object language
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20:40 mithos28: to differentiate it from actual racket
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21:33 lewis1711: say I had the symbol 'vector and the symbol 'map, and I wanted to call "vector-map".. what would be the best way to go about it?
21:33 lewis1711: I am looking at the docs for syntax object right now but I dunno if that's the right way
21:34 mithos28: lewis1711: What are you trying to do at higher level?
21:35 lewis1711: write a procedure property in a struct that will accept 'field-id, and will return the result of(id-field-id self)
21:35 lewis1711: so, (struct foo (x)), (define f (foo 1)), (f 'x) -> 1
21:37 mithos28: so you just need to construct a map from 'x to foo-x at compile time
21:37 mithos28: So I assume you have the list of accessors from the struct info
21:38 mithos28: Then for each of those get the field-id (which as I said yesterday, doesn't actually exist), and create the map
21:38 lewis1711: no. I gave up trying to do that
21:38 mithos28: That is the way to do it
21:38 lewis1711: "So I assume you have the list of accessors from the struct info"
21:38 lewis1711: you showed me a way the other day, and said it was terrible and I shouldn't use it :)
21:39 lewis1711: but what you described was my original plan
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21:40 mithos28: the issue I have with what you are doing is assuming that there is a name for the field without the struct type in it
21:40 mithos28: the only way to refer to the field correctly is through the accessor
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21:41 mithos28: if you are not going to do that then I would suggest the way that I said was bad yesterday, because you have already accepted what is bad about it and thus it is the best solution
21:49 lewis1711: mithos28: by that do you mean that with what I promose you could send the struct 'foo and it'd be a run time error and not a compile time one?
21:50 lewis1711: *propose
21:51 mithos28: that is an issue, but not what I am referring to
21:52 mithos28: structs do not have field ids, they have accessors. Everything that uses 'field ids' is unhygenic and 'broken'.
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21:54 lewis1711: I do not understand the distinction here
21:54 lewis1711: between a field id and an accessor
21:54 mithos28: foo-x is the accessor, x is the field id
21:55 mithos28: there is static information associating the binding foo-x with the concept of the field, if you use x then you have to recreate it or map x to foo-x
21:56 mithos28: there are issues with mapping it if there is renaming involved
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22:00 lewis1711: re-create the binding?
22:00 mithos28: no recreate the information
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22:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 8 new commits to master: http://git.io/u4HDHg
22:08 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 8c1b5db Matthew Flatt: raco setup: build database mapping doc tags to "out.sxref"s...
22:08 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 41e9e3e Matthew Flatt: db: add `sqlite3-available?'...
22:08 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 20bdbb6 Matthew Flatt: racket/serialize: simpler handling of quotable values
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