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02:41 ewemoa: am having difficulty using net/url with a particular https url... http://pastie.org/private/yrqtslb9fdjjavyj1h1jhw any help?
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08:59 P0: hi
08:59 P0: ni how
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10:50 agent-p: Hello
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10:57 jitty: hello
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11:03 didi: I think the statistical profile is not working with the last release. I get no report with it but I've just compiled v5.3 tag and now I get one.
11:03 didi: Could someone confirm this?
11:05 didi: A better description would be a "empty report".
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11:11 asumu: didi: if you try running the program for longer, does it work?
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11:32 didi: asumu: Nope. It doesn't seem to be a problem with the samples. I'm running the same program with v5.3 and v5.3.1 and although v5.3 runs faster, I get ~111 samples with v5.3.1 and ~70 with v5.3.
11:32 didi:
11:33 didi: I get the system wide version from a PPA, so it might be a problem there.
11:35 asumu: Hmm, strange, I don't know why that would happen. If you can provide an example program I can try running it.
11:35 didi: Here is the whole report from v5.3.1 .
11:36 didi: asumu: I will. Hold on.
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11:39 didi: asumu: Here
11:43 asumu: I get a report on both 5.3 and the git version I'm running. I'll try building a 5.3.1 and see what happens.
11:44 didi: asumu: Nice. I do too get with the v5.3 tag compiled from git. I do not get it though from PPA's v5.3.1.
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11:57 dyoo: didi: cannot reproduce; I do see a profile that looks like this: http://paste.kde.org/606650/
11:57 didi: dyoo: Dang. Are you using PPA's version?
11:58 dyoo: this is under 5.3.1 on Mac OS X. quick check: what happens if you try it with and without the jit? I've noticed that the profiler
11:58 dyoo: sometimes gives better results without the jit
11:58 dyoo: you can do: $ racket --no-jit ...
11:58 didi: dyoo: One sec.
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11:59 didi: dyoo: Oops, I think I'll have to turn it down a little, hehe.
11:59 didi: Aha!
12:00 didi: Habemus report.
12:00 didi: That's strange.
12:00 dyoo: does it report a profile with and without the --no-jit thing?
12:00 didi: dyoo: It reports a profile with --no-jit.
12:01 dyoo: (just want to isolate the cause for lack of profile)
12:01 didi: Sure.
12:01 dyoo: 32 bit or 64 bit?
12:01 didi: I'm at 64 bits.
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12:02 dyoo: Darn, my ubuntu box is back at home. I'll try to remember to try this out when I get back tonight.
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12:02 didi: Thank you.
12:02 dyoo: didi: so the situation you're seeing, just to confirm, is that you're not getting a profile under 64-bit ubuntu when running that fib program, right?
12:03 dyoo: when the jit is enabled
12:03 didi: dyoo: Exactly. A even better description would be an "empty report", as it tells me the number of seconds it took and the number of samples, but not the procedures called.
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12:06 didi: dyoo: To more complete, I'm running Ubuntu 12.04.
12:06 didi: s/To/To be
12:07 dyoo: yup, I believe that's what I'm running at home. If anyone else can confirm that they're seeing the same lack of a profile, that'd be great.
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12:29 didi: News: I also get a report from git's v5.3.1 tag. So the problem is with PPA.
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12:30 didi: I remember that something happened during the last release with the PPA, where it had to be re-released.
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12:31 didi: I'll try to purge and reinstall racket.
12:33 didi: Nope, the issue remains.
12:35 didi: So I guess the problem is now narrowed down to Ubuntu's PPA, version 5.3.1, Ubuntu 12.04 x86_64.
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12:36 didi:
12:37 bremner: that's more jonrafkind's ppa than ubuntu's iirc
12:37 dyoo: weird… what in the world could be causing that?
12:38 didi: bremner: Oh, right. I didn't mean to imply it was from Ubuntu. Just it was a PPA. I guess all PPAs are for Ubuntu.
12:38 didi: dyoo: I have no idea. :^(
12:38 bremner: yep, afaik it's ubuntu jargo
12:39 bremner: +n
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12:41 bremner: hmm. I can check debian's 5.3.1. Not sure what kind of racket program to profile.
12:41 didi: bremner: Try
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12:43 bremner: running man is running
12:43 didi: To the hills!
12:43 bremner: and I have a report
12:44 didi: bremner: It might be a problem only with the PPA then.
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12:45 didi: Or only with my machine... :^(
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12:57 flying_rhino: hello
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12:58 mammoth: hello
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12:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/WghkHg
12:59 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 032e1eb Danny Yoo: Add contract for run-tests.
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13:42 didi: Bummer... `curry' can slow things down. I got the same algorithm, without `curry', to run in 70% of the time of the original. Nah, that's fine. I'll miss `curry' though.
13:43 jonrafkind: there was some similar discussion on the list about how `compose' slows things donw
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13:48 didi: In the other hand, the statistical profiler proved to be very useful.
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13:57 mammoth: are there plans to implement real threads here?
13:57 didi: mammoth: What do you mean?
13:57 mammoth: the ones that use multiple cores?
13:57 jonrafkind: mammoth, you can use places
13:58 mammoth: how do they differ from threads?
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13:58 jonrafkind: they spawn the racket vm in a new thread
13:58 jonrafkind: and let you communicate with it over channels
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14:35 friscosam: /c/c
14:35 friscosam: dumb irc client
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14:44 mammoth: okay but I don't really see the reason for threads not working that way....
14:49 didi: mammoth: (and (= Threads ConcurrencyIO) (not (= Threads Parallel-Computation))) , maybe.
14:50 mammoth: didi: why can't it be both? It is in Java.
14:50 didi: mammoth: I don't know. That's how things are historically.
14:50 didi: mammoth: That's how python does it.
14:51 mye: mammoth: the reason is probably that os threads can't be integrated with the language model
14:51 mammoth: mye: what's stopping it?
14:51 mammoth: mye: what part of the model is the problem?
14:52 asumu: I found a segfault, but thankfully it's probably not my fault. :p
14:52 didi: asumu: Hehe.
14:53 asumu: mammoth: it is difficult to rearchitect a VM that wasn't designed for concurrency from the ground up.
14:54 asumu: That's the problem as I understand it. Places is an experiment in adding concurrency without the need to rearchitect the whole system.
14:54 mammoth: asumu: I see
14:55 asumu: The paper on places has more details: http://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/publications/dls11-tsffd.pdf
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15:24 mye: what's the smartest way to reverse a string? Convert to list, reverse and back?
15:25 dyoo: question: why does it need to be reversed?
15:25 didi: mye: (make-string) and iterate until the middle?
15:27 mye: dyoo: I want to pass the reversed string to a function that iterates over a string
15:28 dyoo: It might be possible to return a "sequence" that does the in-place reverse for you. Give me a sec...
15:29 Cryovat: Looking at the docs, it doesn't look like there's a function for it
15:29 Cryovat: That feels like a weird omission :|
15:29 mye: Cryovat: that's what I thought
15:31 dyoo: https://gist.github.com/4074580
15:32 dyoo: here you go mye
15:32 dyoo: Not necessarily the right solution for you; it may depend whether it's worth it to avoid allocating a new string.
15:33 Cryovat: Hmm
15:33 Cryovat: dyoo: Why am I not stalking you on Github?
15:33 Cryovat: I Should
15:33 dyoo: um.. ok? :)
15:35 Cryovat: I need to sit down with Whalesong someday
15:36 dyoo: (and so do I. :) But I'm busy trying to hack Racket at the moment…)
15:39 mye: dyoo: thanks for the work you put in there, I could rewrite the function from recursive to sequence based
15:40 dyoo: mye: frankly, just doing (list->string (reverse (string->list str))) is probably fine. Use the statistical profiler later to see if you really need to avoid the allocation
15:40 dyoo: the code I posted above is cute but it might be overkill. :)
15:40 didi: Just for fun: http://paste.kde.org/606824/
15:41 dyoo: didi: yup, looks good
15:41 didi: :^D
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15:41 Cryovat: That feels like something that ought to be implemented in C :P
15:41 didi: Cryovat: Ugh. :^P
15:55 asumu: Really what we need here are iterators, and you just define a reverse iterator over strings...
15:55 asumu: (and have iterators implement gen:stream)
15:59 Cryovat: Sorry for the slight jump;
15:59 Cryovat: Does generics work in TR yet?
16:00 asumu: Cryovat: No, not yet. Still research to be done.
16:00 Cryovat: I think generics and contracts are both very cool
16:00 Cryovat: But they feel completely disconnected from TR :(
16:03 asumu: We do want to support generics in TR, but we want to get the generics design "right" before that too.
16:04 Cryovat: I do appreciate that
16:05 asumu: And part of that is using generics for more libraries. For example, there's a question of if we need some kind of multiple dispatch for it to be practical.
16:06 asumu: Or if there should be integration (and to what extent) with the class system.
16:07 Cryovat: Multiple dispatch in the sense that you could use it for hetrogenous lists and such?
16:08 asumu: But I agree it's frustrating that it's missing. I want to add support for stream/sequence operations for Hari's purely functional data structure library, for example.
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16:08 asumu: Cryovat: a good example is sets. Say you have tree and hash representations of sets that both implement a gen:set interface.
16:08 asumu: You can have an efficient implementation of union if both sets are trees or hashes, but not mixed.
16:09 asumu: So you'd like to be able to specify that the union method dispatches on both of its set arguments.
16:09 Cryovat: Ah, yeah, that makes sense
16:09 Cryovat: If that wasn't possible, much of the point would be gone
16:10 asumu: Yeah, at least for some data structures. Also, you can emulate it with double dispatch like you do in Java or C++.
16:14 Cryovat: I keep wishing I could contribute somehow :(
16:16 jonrafkind: write some examples for the docs :p
16:17 Cryovat: Maybe I can proofread :P
16:19 asumu: Cryovat: proofreading, examples, tutorials are all great. And there are code things on the github wiki page too.
16:20 asumu: Pull requests welcome. :)
16:21 Cryovat: I should do that, thanks :)
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17:06 greghendershott: Did syntax-parse change since the paper, http://www.ccs.neu.edu/racket/pubs/icfp10-cf.pdf?
17:06 greghendershott: The example clause
17:06 greghendershott: ( ̃or field:identifier [internal:identifier field:identifier])
17:07 greghendershott: gives me error: "syntax-parse: duplicate attribute in: field"
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17:19 asumu: greghendershott: hmm, seems to work for me.
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17:20 asumu: You're looking at parse-field-declaration right?
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17:26 greghendershott: omfg, it's the ~ character in the copy from the PDF.
17:26 greghendershott: lol
17:27 asumu: Oh, hah. Yeah, I noticed the #' is different too.
17:27 didi: The statistical profiler is _very_ useful. It gets "confused" by named lets, but that's nothing to worry about.
17:28 greghendershott: I pasted into DrRacket, it warned about ligatures or other non-normal chars. I clicked Normalize.
17:29 greghendershott: But still had ̃or instead of ~or. Didn't notice.
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17:30 greghendershott: *maybe won't put that experience in Fear of Macros tutorial*
17:31 didi: Also, dyoo is right. It gives you better results without the jit.
17:36 greghendershott: asumu: But how I got into copying from the PDF was after a pattern I'd written by hand — with normal chars — wasn't working for me. Giving me that same error
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17:36 greghendershott: It was:
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17:36 greghendershott: (syntax-parse #'0 [(_ id:id ((~or arg:id [arg:id def:expr]) ...)) #'0])
17:36 Cryovat: Sorry for the total digression here
17:37 Cryovat: But I have a C question (of all things)
17:37 Cryovat: Is there a common standard for naming methods that are effectively constructors and destructors?
17:38 didi: Cryovat: like foo_new()?
17:38 Cryovat: Yeah
17:39 didi: Cryovat: That's how GTK+ does it, for example.
17:41 Cryovat: What would the opposite be?
17:41 greghendershott: I vaguely recall seeing something like _foo_ctor and _foo_dtor generated by C++ compiler
17:41 greghendershott: ctor and dtor?
17:42 didi: Cryovat: In GTK+, _destroy.
17:42 Cryovat: Ok, I'll adhere to the GTK+ way
17:42 Cryovat: Thanks a lot :)
17:42 (part) firefux
17:43 Cryovat: greghendershott: I'm afraid I don't know C++
17:43 Cryovat: I've been trying to avoid it
17:44 Cryovat: It feels so... big
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17:46 greghendershott: asumu: OK it's related to the ellipses (the duplicate attribute error from syntax-parse). I'll spend more time with the docs and figure it out. (That was just a bizarre detour/coincidence that I got the same error message due to odd char in PDF copy.)
17:47 Cryovat: My general experience with papers has been that it's easier to just type out the code manually
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17:52 greghendershott: Cyrovat: If you ever had to learn C++ e.g. for some specific job, I think you'd be OK if you were comfortable with C and found a copy of Scott Meyers' Effective C++. Which is similar to JavaScript: The Good Parts.
17:55 asumu: greghendershott: hmm, that's weird, it works if you make that ~or clause a syntax class.
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17:58 Cryovat: Thanks for the tip
17:58 Cryovat: I'll be on the lookout for it if the need arises
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17:58 didi: From list to set: task done in 37% of the original time. Now that's a speedup.
17:59 greghendershott: asumu: I figured I'd get it working directly in the clause, before defining my first-ever syntax class. But I may as well jump directly to that.
18:00 greghendershott: Cryovat: It would not be an entirely bad thing if the need to learn C++ never arises. :) But you never know.
18:01 Cryovat: I have a very faint hope that Rust will be mature and popular enough by that time ;)
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19:50 udzinari: Hello folks, how can one use '#lang planet neil/sicp' from 'racket -i'?
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19:55 neilv: udzinari: neil/sicp is intended only for use with drracket, but you might be able to do it with: racket -p neil/sicp -i
19:59 udzinari: i see, thanks
19:59 (quit) udzinari: Remote host closed the connection
19:59 neilv: everyone can rejoin the channel now. we're done talking about sicp
20:07 neilv: anyone know how to disable the arrow in the upper-right corner? i don't see a preference for it
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20:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/m1hyJA
20:43 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 4cdcfd6 Ryan Culpepper: improve db tests
20:43 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 8db023c Ryan Culpepper: add string typeid for mysql char(N) fields...
20:43 RacketCommitBot: racket/master ab88a2a Ryan Culpepper: add table-based db tests...
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21:15 firefux: Hi, should I start with HtDP 1st-Edition or 2nd-Edition?
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21:25 offby1: 2nd definitely
21:25 offby1: I haven't read both but I'm sure nevertheless
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21:33 firefux: offby1: ok cool, was asking because the 2e is still a work in progress
21:33 offby1: ooh, good point.
21:34 offby1: Still, give it a try. I'd expect that those bits that exist at all are good.
21:34 firefux: ok
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21:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 8 new commits to master: http://git.io/03plfg
21:37 RacketCommitBot: racket/master d99888d Matthew Flatt: x86_64: more direct thread-local access in JIT...
21:37 RacketCommitBot: racket/master f1807d2 Matthew Flatt: JIT: skip an unused load
21:37 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 335711b Matthew Flatt: tweak JIT-inlined `cons'...
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21:53 asumu: firefux: most of the important parts of 2e are already written.
21:53 asumu: And if you get far enough for the difference to matter, you can switch to reading the 1st edition.
21:54 asumu: The 2nd edition is much better, IMHO.
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22:37 aezx: hi
22:39 asumu: aezx: hi
22:44 aezx: im having trouble understanding racket threads
22:47 asumu: What in particular?
22:47 aezx: http://pastebin.com/wXqF24cC
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22:47 aezx: hey mithos
22:48 aezx: asumu, I'm wondering why that doesnt return 1 2 1 2 1, instead of 1 1 1 1 1
22:48 mithos28: hello aezx
22:49 asumu: aezx: because you didn't give the `thread` form a thunk.
22:49 asumu: You called the expression that prints endlessly.
22:49 asumu: You need to wrap it in a lambda.
22:49 aezx: would it be too much to ask for an example? I understand what you're saying, but it'd be easier to "get" if I could see it
22:50 mithos28: (thread (lambda () (printf "from the thread")))
22:50 mithos28: thread is just a function not a special form. It needs to evaluate its argument
22:51 (quit) SamB_MacG5: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
22:51 mithos28: is racket's scheduler fair in any sense?
22:51 aezx: ok, I think I get it
22:51 aezx: yeah
22:51 asumu: rudybot: eval (define (loop) (loop)) (thread (lambda () (loop))) (thread (lambda () (loop)))
22:51 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: #
22:51 asumu: Hmm, I guess it won't give a timeout error.
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22:52 mithos28: rudybot: eval (define (loop) (loop)) (sync (thread (lambda () (loop))) (thread (lambda () (loop))))
22:52 rudybot: mithos28: your sandbox is ready
22:52 rudybot: mithos28: error: with-limit: out of time
22:53 offby1: ^-:
22:54 mithos28: offby1: What protections does rudybot have outside of the racket sandboxing mechanisms?
22:56 aezx: alright, it works now.
22:56 aezx: its much easier to understand why it wasnt working before now that it works now
22:56 aezx: thanks again, you were a huge help
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23:02 offby1: mithos28: that's pretty much it
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23:03 mithos28: I wonder how hard it would be to hack it then
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23:09 offby1: have at it
23:09 offby1: just, if you do break something, let me and/or Eli know
23:09 mithos28: oh breaking it is easy, the issue is getting it to do something useful
23:10 mithos28: rudybot: init typed/racket
23:10 rudybot: mithos28: error: with-limit: out of time
23:10 mithos28: rudybot: init typed/racket
23:10 rudybot: mithos28: error: with-limit: out of time
23:10 mithos28: for example starting background threads
23:10 mithos28: rudybot: (+ 1 1)
23:11 rudybot: mithos28: error: with-limit: out of time
23:11 offby1: one easy way to break it: download the code, look for "TODO" :-(
23:11 offby1: rudybot: (+ 1 1)
23:11 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
23:11 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 2
23:11 offby1: *shrug*
23:11 offby1: :-)
23:11 mithos28: rudybot: (+ 1 1)
23:11 rudybot: mithos28: error: with-limit: out of time
23:11 mithos28: stupid thread groups
23:11 offby1: you appear to have broken your own sandbox.
23:12 offby1: do "rudybot: init racket" to clear it out
23:12 mithos28: rudybot: init racket
23:12 rudybot: mithos28: your sandbox is ready
23:12 mithos28: I don't think that works
23:12 mithos28: oh
23:12 offby1: let's see
23:12 mithos28: rudybot: init typed/racket
23:12 rudybot: mithos28: error: with-limit: out of time
23:12 mithos28: rudybot: (+ 1 1)
23:13 rudybot: mithos28: error: with-limit: out of time
23:13 offby1: hmph
23:13 offby1: that seems like a real live bug
23:13 mithos28: that wasn't going to be my attack even
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23:28 ewemoa: seem to be having problems fetching a particular https url using get-pure-port in net/url -- works from a browser, but i get diff results programmatically: http://pastie.org/private/yrqtslb9fdjjavyj1h1jhw -- any ideas how to investigate further?
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23:33 mithos28: Thats interesting
23:37 mithos28: it would be interesting to see what the request that racket is making
23:37 mithos28: do you know what wireshark is?
23:37 ewemoa: yes i used it to take a look
23:37 ewemoa: but we're talking about ssl here
23:39 mithos28: can wireshark not decode that? Isn't that a level below where it hooks in?
23:39 ewemoa: haven't investigated -> "The SSL dissector is fully functional and even supports advanced features such as decryption of SSL if the encryption key can be provided and Wireshark is compiled against GnuTLS (rather than OpenSSL or bsafe)."
23:40 mithos28: Its likel an empty user-agent string
23:41 mithos28: curl https://tools.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2616.txt -A ''
23:41 mithos28: that fails for me in the same way
23:41 ewemoa: thanks
23:41 mithos28: and get-pures-port allows you to pass headers in
23:42 mithos28: so I think that should be an easy solution (if it works)
23:42 ewemoa: will take a look -- thanks for the lead and hints :)