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05:18 asvil: hi all, small question again. I make simple "for" loop compile-time unwrapping, but get error: unsealed local-definition context found in fully expanded form. Source: http://paste.lisp.org/+2UZR
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06:48 tim-brown: morning! i'll repeat my question from yesterday, in case anyone's listening...
06:49 tim-brown: does anyone here use SirMail in earnest?
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07:01 noelw: I don't. I think Matthew Flatt is the most active user
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07:10 tim-brown: noelw: thx
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07:54 didi: I was trying to hack Racket sources but now I can't compile it anymore, even after going back to master state. I get a lot of `write: cannot marshal value that is embedded in compiled code\n  value: (Exact (Exact #f))' and a fail in the final. How do I fix it?
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07:59 noelw: didi: probably need to nuke the existing compiled files
08:00 noelw: make clean might do it
08:00 didi: noelw: I did a `make clean', removed `bin/' `include/' `lib/' and finally `build/'. No change.
08:00 didi: :^(
08:00 noelw: It's the .zo files you want to nuke
08:01 didi: noelw: Where are they?
08:01 noelw: find . -name '*.zo'
08:01 didi: OK.
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08:07 didi: noelw: Shouldn't `make clean' remove these files?
08:08 noelw: I'm not an authority on that.
08:08 didi: I see.
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09:20 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/z3JNsQ
09:20 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 0e4305f Matthew Flatt: fix problem with places and `struct-type-info'...
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10:11 samth: tim-brown: i believe matthew is the only sirmail user
10:13 samth: asvil: you really really don't want to be using `eval` there
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10:16 asvil: samth, the last modification is http://paste.lisp.org/+2UZY , it works, why not `eval`?
10:17 samth: eval is the wrong tool for the job
10:17 samth: you should *only* use eval if you're evaluating unknown code, the way rudybot does
10:17 samth: asvil: what are you trying to accomplish?
10:17 samth: also, there's just no way your code works
10:19 samth: you won't be able to access local bindings with eval, for example
10:19 samth: or module bindings
10:19 asvil: samth i try to make compile-time loop unwinding
10:20 samth: asvil: you can't do that in general for racket for loops
10:20 samth: you can do it for some specific cases
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10:21 asvil: samth, yes I know, only when I can "eval" sequences in for-clauses without lexical bindings
10:22 samth: asvil: or when the for loop has side effects
10:22 samth: or when you write your program in a module
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11:30 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/QUYjFQ
11:30 RacketCommitBot: racket/master f832c96 Matthew Flatt: change `Scheme_Symbol' declaration to avoid compiler warnings
11:30 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 739aa11 Matthew Flatt: Scribble Latex/PDF: use tocstyle only if it's available
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12:16 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/tuDksQ
12:16 RacketCommitBot: racket/master ee97c08 Vincent St-Amour: Replace #lang scheme deprecation notice with a pointer to #lang racket.
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12:54 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/lYKCMg
12:54 RacketCommitBot: racket/master e6ab325 Burke Fetscher: add redex-generator form and some tests...
12:54 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 6be4059 Burke Fetscher: don't use disunify* to check disequations, since at this point they are fully instantiated
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13:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/v7B4ww
13:13 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 2274e23 Jay McCarthy: Fix error with min-width and fractions
13:13 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 6d101c9 Jay McCarthy: add a test for the patch
13:13 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 0c892b5 Jay McCarthy: pushing update timeout
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13:32 tim-brown: night all
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13:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 6 new commits to master: http://git.io/1zP2Og
13:53 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 9c9f269 Jon Rafkind: [honu] add syntax-rules analog
13:53 RacketCommitBot: racket/master ae15ef5 Jon Rafkind: [honu] clean up syntax parse attributes in patterns. dont remove repeats too early from syntax
13:53 RacketCommitBot: racket/master dc1b344 Jon Rafkind: [honu] move honu-syntax to syntax.rkt. allow each pattern to specify a syntax result
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15:38 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/nOmB4w
15:38 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 1f02a0a John Clements: exposed mapping for unreserved characters
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15:44 asumu: Shameless plug: http://blog.racket-lang.org/2012/11/generics.html
15:50 jonrafkind: can you make objects that don't explicitly implement a generic interface somehow generic?
15:51 jonrafkind: and by that I mean create some new generic interface, like iterable, and have (vector->iterable v) return an iterable version of the vector that you can then pass to a function which expects an iterable
15:52 jonrafkind: now of course you can just wrap the vector in a struct which implements those methods, but maybe theres an easier way?
15:53 asumu: jonrafkind: in 5.4 we'll likely have a #:defaults form for `define-generics` that lets you specify how to operate on objects that match predicates (like built-in types)
15:54 asumu: there isn't an easy way to implement vector->iterable without just doing it manually though, yet.
15:54 jonrafkind: and iirc generics use inheritance right?
15:54 asumu: Struct inheritance? No, they just use structure type properties.
15:54 jonrafkind: i mean i can make a new generic that inherits some other generics
15:55 jonrafkind: gets all its methods, and then i can override them in the sub-generic
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15:55 jonrafkind: i thought I did that the last time i used generics
15:56 asumu: Right now we don't have that.
15:56 jonrafkind: do all generic methods have to be implemented for each new instance of the generic? or can I define a generic method that is purely defined in terms of other generic methods
15:57 asumu: No, you can leave some unimplemented and it's up to the interface writer to figure out what the protocol is for missing methods.
15:57 asumu: And methods are just functions, so they can do whatever you want.
15:58 asumu: Including just dispatching to the generic function again.
15:59 asumu: Also, it wouldn't be that hard to make a (generic-of gen:foo [...]) form or something that defined an anonymous new instance of a generic interface (Clojure's protocols has this).
15:59 asumu: Which would let you build vector->iterable easily maybe.
15:59 asumu: I'm just not sure if it's very useful, given that struct is not hard to use.
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16:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/eAZMpg
16:32 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 354a71b Danny Yoo: documentation: adding examples for string input.
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17:07 greghendershott: Is there a way to format just some text inside of a Scribble @interaction[] or @racketblock[]?Such as two code examples, some fragment changes in the second, and you'd like to bold it or do another background color or whatever.
17:08 greghendershott: Obviously something like
17:09 greghendershott: @racketblock[(define (foo x) @italic[(displayln x)] #t)]
17:09 greghendershott: Is printed literally as
17:09 greghendershott: (define (foo x) (italic (displayln x)) #t)
17:10 greghendershott: eli where art thou?
17:12 greghendershott: asumu: Nice blog post.
17:13 asumu: greghendershott: Thanks. :)
17:14 asumu: greghendershott: you can escape it, I think. Try #,
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17:20 greghendershott: asumu: Thanks. #, isn't working for me so far, but I may be getting tripped up by at-exps. Will try to work it out.
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17:23 greghendershott: asumu: BTW re the blog, I think the Blogger template needs to be updated. Both to give a fresher look, and more basically so the main content element is wider and doesn't chop off code.
17:23 greghendershott: I'm all for max line widths of 80, but the effective line width now is 53. That is not very wide. :)
17:24 asumu: Agreed, I'm trying to get it changed.
17:26 asumu: greghendershott: Hmm, I wonder if @interaction is broken. Escaping works for me in racketblock but not interaction.
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17:29 greghendershott: I suppose I could change some of them from interaction to racketblock.
17:33 asumu: Also, I'm not this escape is quite what you want anyway...
17:34 greghendershott: Yeah I seem to be in an at-exp pretzel but I'm still trying to work it out.
17:36 mye: if I define a log function e.g. (define log displayln), use it all over my code and then later change it to (define log void), what does the compiler do with it? Is it removed statically?
17:37 greghendershott: OK so I'm getting to e.g. italicize but I've lost the Racket lexing.
17:39 greghendershott: Ah OK, this seems to be on the right track:
17:39 greghendershott: @racketblock[(define (foo x) #,(@italic (@racket (displayln x))) #t)]
17:39 greghendershott: 
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17:43 greghendershott: OK, so something like this will do:
17:43 greghendershott: @racketblock[(define (foo x) #,(@elem #:style "changed-code" (@racket (displayln x))) #t)]
17:43 greghendershott: 
17:43 greghendershott: Provided I add a style in my custom CSS file like:
17:43 greghendershott: .changed-code {background-color: #f0f0f0;}
17:43 greghendershott: 
17:44 greghendershott: I'll try to run with that.
17:44 greghendershott: asumu: Thanks for the hint re #, being the escape!
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17:48 greghendershott: p.s. But yeah that obviously carps interaction, only makes sense for racketblock. Plus it carps the indentation. So ... maybe not so much.
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17:53 Cryovat: Wow
17:53 Cryovat: I just did a fresh Ubuntu install and installed Racket
17:53 Cryovat: The DrRacket icon looks downright dreadful
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17:54 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/AKYDtA
17:54 RacketCommitBot: racket/master dcf4d8b Danny Yoo: adding close-eval at the end of scribble files that have a toplevel evaluator
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17:54 Cryovat: For reference: http://i.imgur.com/TUkJH.png
17:57 dyoo: Cryovat: wow, that looks hideous
17:58 dyoo: maybe someone can suggest the ubuntu folks use something like http://docs.racket-lang.org/images/Logos.html#(def._((lib._images/logos..rkt)._plt-logo)) instead?
17:59 Cryovat: I like the one on the splash screen
17:59 Cryovat: It's pretty simple
18:00 Cryovat: I have no idea where the Ubuntu guys got this one from
18:00 Cryovat: It's 5.2.1 btw
18:00 asumu: greghendershott: I made the blog sidebar much smaller. I think it should now be more readable.
18:01 dyoo: mye: in modules, you can't re-define a variable, though you can set! it.  But if you're trying to do something with logging, you probably should use the logging facilities… give me a sec
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18:01 dyoo: mye: see http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/logging.html; it's logging that you can control at runtime by setting the log level
18:05 asumu: Ah, there. Taking out the width limitation on the blog page made a big difference.
18:05 asumu: Using some Google web fonts might help too.
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18:07 mye: dyoo: I didn't express clearly what I meant sorry: I meant leaving the (log …) calls in the code but uncommenting (define log displayln) and writing (define log void) in place of it e.g. has (void "foo") any runtime costs?
18:07 dyoo: asumu: I like!  :)
18:08 mye: It's just a convenient way of disabling/enabling printf style debugging
18:09 dyoo: mye: negligible.  (void X Y Z …) returns just the void value.  Note that if you use the logging system, you can disable at the command line or from env variables, without needing to touch source
18:10 mye: dyoo: i might look an the logging docs again but last time I came out rather confused :-)
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18:10 dyoo: mye: :)
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18:13 asumu sets the blog code font to Inconsolata
18:13 asumu: Dealing with the body fonts is too painful for now, so I'll think about that later.
18:15 asumu: dyoo: did the close-eval thing improve documentation build times and/or memory use?
18:15 dyoo: unfortunately, I didn't notice anything from it… :(
18:16 dyoo: but I thought: might as well be consistent
18:16 dyoo: I'll look at scribble rendering later either today or tomorrow to see if there's low-hanging fruit.
18:16 asumu: Ah well, still good to have tidy code.
18:18 dyoo: mye: just as a note: just be aware that since your 'log' is just a function, it's still computing the arguments, so just be careful that the arguments aren't expensive to compute.  (warning comes from personal experience)
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18:25 mye: dyoo: thanks. I had actually hoped the function calls wouldn't end up in the byte code.
18:27 mye: hm, what about a macro that expands to nothing
18:31 stamourv: mye: Yeah, you can do that.
18:31 stamourv: Empty begin.
18:32 stamourv: I didn't really follow the conversation. Are you trying to conditionally add logging code?
18:33 greghendershott: asumu: the new layout is much better!
18:36 mye: stamourv: yes, like this? https://gist.github.com/3997158
18:36 stamourv: Looks good.
18:38 asumu: I get worried when I see "ERROR: evaluator: terminated (custodian-shutdown)" from running the contract tests. :(
18:46 asumu: Okay that error wasn't as drastic as I thought.
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21:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/mqMBcg
21:19 RacketCommitBot: racket/master c1cace2 Sam Tobin-Hochstadt: This test always errors -- belongs in fail.
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21:23 Shambles_1: Was the Realm of Racket book canceled?  The website seems to have gone missing, and the promised 'winter 2012' release is almost upon us with basically no info, and the videos (which I never got to see) were even pulled.
21:27 asumu: Shambles_1: No idea, I haven't heard about any cancellation.
21:31 Shambles_1: Nothing about it on the No Starch Press site.
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22:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/UFjwAA
22:14 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 6f5e43b Robby Findler: added a script that collects log messages for use in performance debugging drracket
22:14 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 478fede Robby Findler: fix up mac os x version of the redex bitmap tests
22:14 RacketCommitBot: racket/master 3d5178b Robby Findler: adjust generate-term so that it has an '=' in its concrete...
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