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04:00 wecing: hey guys a short question -- why (defint t (eval '(+ 1 1))) gives the "+: unbound identifier" error? and it doesn't shows the error in repl.
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04:04 neilv: wecing: you probably need to set up a namespace. it's more complicated than it used to be
04:04 neilv: wecing: also, although lots of old books will tell you about eval, there is rarely a good reason to be using it
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04:06 wecing: neilv: hmm... i'm required to use eval in my assignment in fact. anyway, thanks.
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11:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to release: http://git.io/7Jrwfw
11:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] fix some part of the check syntax blinking arrows infrastructure - Robby Findler
11:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] rename 'online' to 'speculative' in the drracket GUI. - Robby Findler
11:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] preserve the error-print-source parameter when installing planet packages - Robby Findler
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11:43 dyoo: wecing: if you do come back on IRC, check the Guide on the dynamic evaluation section in: http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/reflection.html
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11:45 dyoo: who's coming to racketcon tomorrow?  I was worried if I need to go to a store to pick up a mini displayport->via adapter; I've brought the dvi adapter with me, but don't know if the projector there will support it
11:45 dyoo: s/via/vga
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12:45 neilv: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 290455552 Oct 12 11:42 rackout-live-build-dir/binary.img
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12:46 neilv: usb flash drives are cheap. i'm ready to call it an embedded system :)
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13:18 mithos28: Has there been any update to the possibility of live streaming racketcon?
13:19 ianjneu: Haven't heard. samth is out with mflatt and matthias right now.
13:23 mithos28: Is anyone else helping him with logistics?
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13:38 ianjneu: asumu: do you know anything about the video situation?
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13:43 SamB_MacG5 wishes harm upon the inventor of `define-values'
13:43 ianjneu: multiple values are... special.
13:44 ianjneu: But why?
13:46 stamourv: SamB_MacG5: `define-values' >> `call-with-values'.
13:46 neilv: multiple-value is very useful
13:46 SamB_MacG5: oh, is that what that is?
13:46 stamourv: Define values is *the* thing that makes multiple values usable.
13:46 SamB_MacG5: nevermind
13:47 stamourv: SamB_MacG5: No, I was using ">>" to mean "is orders of magnitude better than".
13:47 neilv: let-values is my preferred way, but the syntax is unnecessarily cumbersome (i suspect a conspiracy, to try to push people to local define forms)
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13:47 SamB_MacG5: stamourv: I was misunderstanding ;-)
13:47 stamourv: neilv's on to us!
13:47 stamourv jumps through the window.
13:48 SamB_MacG5: the misunderstanding the code I was looking at because, partly because I hadn't read the docs ...
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13:50 carleastlund: I never use anything but define-values any more, if I can help it.  I've used let-values, and ((((((((it) is) an) ab)om)in)a)tion).
13:51 neilv: carleastlund: hence my plea to simplify the syntax
13:51 carleastlund: neilv: We did: define-values ;p
13:52 neilv: all the evils of toplevel, and no shadowing
13:52 carleastlund: What evils of toplevel?  You're not writing outside of modules are you?  But I see what you mean about shadowing.
13:55 neilv: i'm not up to that discussion right now (trying to finish some coding)
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13:56 neilv: i think i'll have to make  "#lang evil-scheme". better let-values, colon-keywords, and square brackets are reserved for a less-ugly purpose :)
14:00 carleastlund: neilv: I'm with you on most of those things, but not brackets/braces.  If I have to start writing my conds with all round-parens or something, I'm out!
14:02 neilv: i'm willing to have "#lang evil-scheme" check (getenv "USER") and make an exception for you
14:03 chandler: neilv: Can you make '() not be true while you're at it? :-)
14:04 neilv: i said evil, not psychotic
14:05 chandler: (I don't want it to be false either.)
14:06 neilv: that is not a bad idea. although being a little sloppy with our booleans is very convenient
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14:08 eli: SamB_MacG5: Re running the web script -- it's a little tricky since it does a whole bunch of work that probably requires being on a linux machine and other complications.
14:09 eli: If you want to try things out, you can send me diffs that I can apply and rebuild the pages.
14:09 eli: I don't mind removing that xml line even -- if it breaks that way then I know that if I don't do anything it will get fixed after the next nightly build which will run from the repo anyway.
14:10 SamB_MacG5: eli: where by Linux you mean what?
14:10 SamB_MacG5: "not Windows", or?
14:10 eli: Probably "not windows" is good enough.
14:10 eli: Though OSX might have some issues too.
14:11 eli: So you can try to run it by just running "build.rkt", do it on the command line and give it a "-h" to see the options.
14:11 eli: There's no way to customize the domain name (though the change would be easy since there's a table somewhere for the names),
14:11 eli: but one of the flags runs the whole thing in a "local mode" where the content is meant to be viewed locally as a file:// url.
14:12 eli: Also, that language highlighting thing is likely a bug.  (I didn't do that #:info addition, and it's likely to have been made by mistake.)
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14:15 SamB_MacG5: I don't think I want to try removing the xml line on the live site now; I don't currently have anything on which to run the IE test VMs
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14:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ikJ_lg
14:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Only recommend dropping exactness in truly inexact contexts. - Vincent St-Amour
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14:53 samth: mithos28: I plan to try your google hangout suggestion
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15:01 SamB_MacG5: eli: I was right about the syntax highlighting for `#lang meta/web'; the only reason I didn't fix it last night was that I didn't feel up to figuring out what `require's might be needed by the #:info function ... and of course it turned out not to need any ;-)
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15:06 SamB_MacG5: eli: what's thepoint of collects/meta/build/build starting with "#!/bin/sh" and then immediately switching to bash if it's not already running under bash?
15:06 SamB_MacG5: wouldn't it be simpler to just start it with "#!/usr/bin/env bash" ?
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15:12 eli: SamB_MacG5: Re the info thing -- it would probably be an easy fix, and I'll be happy to look it over.  (I don't run into this problem since I do most of my hacking in Emacs...)
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15:13 eli: re the build/build -- that's something that dates back to certain weird things that would happen on solaris and/or bsd machines, with the defaults being very inconveniet.  (I don't remember thge details but it's likely that even `env' would have some problems there.)
15:14 eli: It was also a more recent addition -- since I started with just /bin/sh and at some point I just gave up on dealing with that insanity...
15:14 SamB_MacG5: eli: I switch back and forth because Emacs doesn't actually grok Racket syntax
15:15 eli: And re testing the live site -- I don't think that it's that dangerous, so I'll be happy to test it out live.  At worst, someone barks, and that will be a concrete explanation why it's needed.
15:15 eli: Re emacs -- I usually deal with the text forms manually.  I'm just lazy.
15:16 SamB_MacG5: I'm a newbie so I need help
15:17 SamB_MacG5: also, DrRacket's handling of bound identifiers is pretty awesome
15:18 SamB_MacG5: not as awesome as it could be, I'm sure, but I can't think of any other tools that can do it at all...
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15:20 SamB_MacG5: is there an explanation somewhere of when you might need to use top-level `module' forms rather than #lang?
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15:25 samth: SamB_MacG5: when you're not writing a module that's terminated with EOF
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15:27 SamB_MacG5 was thinking about, say, at-exp/lang/reader.rkt
15:28 samth: no reason for that one
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15:29 SamB_MacG5: hmm, I figured out why s-exp/lang/reader does it ;-)
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15:30 SamB_MacG5: it's because "#lang s-exp syntax/module-reader" won't work there
15:34 SamB_MacG5 wishes there were a way to file a patch for application at the next version bump
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16:19 SamB_MacG5: eli: oh, see https://github.com/SamB/racket/commit/06e3bccb554039f3e81ae4ea7298b66675f129a0 for the #:info fix
16:19 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/8trl9h6
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16:55 eli: SamB_MacG5: I don't remember what the `scribble-lexer' is doing -- it should be the same one that gets used for the `at-exp' language.  (Actually the language extension thing.)
16:55 eli: (Sorry for not being too helpful.)
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17:00 SamB_MacG5: hmm, the info proc for at-exp only takes two arguments, not three like the one for scribble/base
17:02 eli: That's probably because it uses `make-meta-reader' -- since it's not a real language but something that gets combined with the following language.
17:02 eli: But in any case, it uses the same `scribble-lexer', so it looks like that's the right thing.
17:04 SamB_MacG5: mmm hmm
17:04 SamB_MacG5: do the contracts in the docs get sanity-checked at all?
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17:05 SamB_MacG5: (as to whether they match the code, I mean)
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18:51 dyoo: SamB_MacG5: sometimes I really like define-values.  An example why it helps is code like https://gist.github.com/3881992; using it makes the test code fairly concise, and the algorithm doesn't require so much struct use
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18:53 SamB_MacG5: I retract anything I said against define-values, I was being an idiot
18:53 SamB_MacG5: (mis-estimating what it was)
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18:54 dyoo: no, no, I didn't like it at first either.  It got much better when Racket allowed internal definition positions in more places
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19:15 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/pP1EcQ
19:15 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Adding support for byte counting rather than char counting in XML - Jay McCarthy
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22:19 SlyShy: Does anyone know how to get make-cookie to work on localhost?
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22:38 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] raco setup: improve description of `--doc-pdf' - Matthew Flatt
22:38 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] slideshow/pict repair - Matthew Flatt
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22:53 cky: eli: (Re FFI) So, from what I understand of the documentation, when defining a _fun, you can have a _list that refers to a previous argument for the length. But does the same thing work for a struct? Maybe I am doing it wrong. :-(
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23:34 cky: eli: I'm also confused about the definition of _hfun. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HRESULT (not that it's authoritative, but in my experience working with COM, positive HRESULTs are successful and negative HRESULTs are unsuccessful), throwing an error for a positive HRESULT really perplexed me.
23:37 cky: Also, define-com-interface is really badass. :-D I think I'm going to steal that for my implementation. :-)
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