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08:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/8cTFcA
08:08 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] errortrace: fix profiling for phase >= 2 code - Matthew Flatt
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10:05 soegaard: From University of Minnesota. A bit harsh. See the very bottom of the page: http://www-users.cselabs.umn.edu/classes/Fall-2011/csci1901/
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10:20 tim-brown: does
10:21 tim-brown: would '#lang r5rs' put racket in a state to be usable for homework?
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10:29 asumu: tim-brown: that depends on the HW.
10:30 asumu: soegaard: huh, that's weird since they've used Racket in the past.
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10:31 asumu: (I guess we have to be 1996-compatible forever)
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10:34 jrslepak: bit of digging around finds https://wiki.umn.edu/CSCI1901/DrSchemeVsMITScheme
10:34 jrslepak: wonder if they know about the sicp language
10:39 soegaard: jrslepak: Intersting the comment I linked to was from 09-01-2011 and your page is from  17 Jan 2011  !
10:40 soegaard: Maybe they have an automated grader  that runs in MIT Scheme?
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10:49 ChibaPet: eli, not sure if there's something odd with the build on phlegethon or not, but it's consuming what I suspect is an unusually large amount of RAM and impacting the box's responsiveness. I don't remember this being the case during previous builds.
10:50 ChibaPet: I've renice'd it, and just wanted to point it out in case it's dropped into some degenerate condition.
10:50 ChibaPet: I've stopped some other work on the box to give the build more resources. If it hasn't finished in a couple hours I'll ping you again.
10:53 eli: ChibaPet: It sometimes goes up when it's running the tests in a CGC mode.
10:53 ChibaPet: kk
10:53 ChibaPet: It's not a big issue. Just wanted to make sure it hadn't broken.
10:53 eli: And we have many manually triggered builds now because of the upcoming release.
10:54 eli: Yesh, Yeah, I do follow the builds...
10:54 eli: s/Yesh, //
10:54 eli is on a very slow line
10:54 ChibaPet: Ah, that can be exciting. Alright, heading off - thanks for checking in!
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11:15 eli: samth, stamourv: So, what problem do you have with swindle?
11:15 samth: eli: no problem w/ swindle
11:16 samth: things that might cause you think i have a problem w/ swindle:
11:16 eli: You said something about redundant dialects.
11:16 samth: (a) i think having a language menu entry for swindle is a mistake (use #lang swindle)
11:16 samth: (b) the swindle/turbo name is funny
11:17 samth: but also, why isn't swindle a library rather than a languge?
11:18 chandler: soegaard: re the harshness of the comment, it reads like a prof or TA hitting the students with a clue-by-four to me
11:19 eli: samth: (a) yes, it should be removed, there might be enough printer hooks now; (b) that name is a reference to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_Pascal;
11:20 eli: as for (c) it has a lot of language level extensions -- if it's re-done now it would be feasible to have it is a library since racket matured enough (it was done ages ago, so I had to do a bunch of things that are now in plain racket).
11:20 soegaard: chandler: Hadn't heard that term before. http://catb.org/jargon/html/C/clue-by-four.html
11:20 stamourv: eli: As samth said, we were just joking around.
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11:22 chandler: soegaard: Oh, heh. Anyway, as I'm sure you're aware, sometimes students need that to prevent them from being too clever for their own good and then impairing their ability to successfully complete the assignments.
11:23 soegaard: I think you are right.
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11:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/tvB7PQ
11:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fixed small mistake in defform/none from conversion to syntax/parse - Matthias Felleisen
11:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add redundancy for scene? to universe docs; Closes PR12924 - Matthias Felleisen
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12:35 tim-brown: night all!
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12:54 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/v3PMwQ
12:54 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix GUI doc typo reported by Kieron Hardy - Asumu Takikawa
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13:20 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/7h3naA
13:20 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Doc fixes reported by Gary Baumgartner - Asumu Takikawa
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13:32 Haffe: I think I discovered an incosistency in the racket gui toolkit.
13:33 Haffe: Some places you can give a string as an argument to a color.
13:33 Haffe: But some places it has to be an instance of a color%-object. What gives?
13:41 asumu: Haffe: examples?
13:42 asumu: (probably just an oversight)
13:42 asumu: If you could submit a bug report, that'd be great.
13:43 Haffe: I will look deeper into it.
13:43 Haffe: I am tasked with writing an introduction to gui programming with racket.
13:44 asumu: Neat. Tasked by whom?
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13:45 Haffe: Last semester I worked on an introductory course in programming using Racket. All groups finished with a small project. Most of them made graphical games, and we were owerwhelmed with questions about guiprogramming.
13:45 Haffe: So now I am employed by an instituion to write a guide.
13:46 stamourv: Haffe: Awesome!
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13:52 Haffe: Not to disrespect the gui guide on the homepage. But I am working on one that is more 'I want to do this, how-to do it'.
13:53 stamourv: Yeah, we definitely need that.
13:56 Haffe: I wrote a small demo app for the students.
13:56 Haffe: Just handle mouse and keyboard on a canvas.
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14:22 soegaard: I have often wished for screen shots in the GUI guide.
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14:43 Haffe: I will talk to my employer about ownership of the guide I am writing.
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14:44 stamourv: Haffe: Is the plan to make it publically available?
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14:44 Haffe: Yes.
14:45 Haffe: At least to hand it out to students.
14:45 chimeracoder: Haffe: You use Racket at work?
14:45 stamourv: What about Racket users in general?
14:45 chimeracoder: who's the employer?
14:46 Haffe: The instituion for computer science at a technical university.
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15:10 danl_ndi: Haffe is being awfully cagey
15:10 Haffe: ?
15:11 Haffe: I don't want to promise too much before I have something to deliver.
15:12 danl_ndi: people are generally on here to help you fulfill promises....
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15:12 danl_ndi: or so I've noticed
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15:14 danl_ndi: but it helps to be very specific about what you're doing and why
15:16 Haffe: I am writing a small illustrated guide to the RACKET gui toolkit.
15:16 Haffe: Because it's better to answer a question once well than answering the same question 20 times.
15:17 bremner: in German?
15:18 Haffe: English.
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15:28 danl_ndi: Haffe: sounds very cool. i'm sure you can find many scratchers for that particular itch. care to share your progress with us?
15:29 danl_ndi: (we don't tell on you ;)
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15:30 Haffe: So far I have read up on gui elements.
15:30 Haffe: I start writing tomroww.
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15:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/DxihCQ
15:36 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] ffi/com: AddRef on IUnknown arguments to COM methods - Matthew Flatt
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16:01 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Q6YxOg
16:01 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix guide description of `when` - Asumu Takikawa
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16:12 asumu: anyone who's used submodules, should this work? https://gist.github.com/3165954
16:12 asumu: Or is there something wrong with my module path?
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16:44 sethalves: no srfi-0 for racket, right?
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16:51 soegaard: sethalves: Not to my knowledge
16:52 soegaard: Is anyone supporting it?
16:54 sethalves: well, most interpreters do.  it seems like racket supports srfi-7 instead
16:54 sethalves: which is fine
16:54 sethalves: i just wanted to make sure i wasn't missing some way to get srfi-0
16:57 sethalves: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tRCHK6jWXuKMABKAfoOwWqw
16:57 sethalves: not sure how up-to-date that is.
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16:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/xQ0lGg
16:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] addex index entry for add/plus, multiply, and friends - Matthias Felleisen
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16:58 stamourv: sethalves: It lists PLT 4.2.1. That's at least 3 years old.
16:58 stamourv: What do you need srfi 0 for?
16:59 sethalves: to allow code to run in more than one interpreter.
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17:01 stamourv: asumu: No idea.
17:02 stamourv: sethalves: Small correction: Racket is not an interpreter, it's based on a compiler. And so are most serious Schemes.
17:02 stamourv: sethalves: As for portability, good luck.
17:03 stamourv: Scheme portability is very hard.
17:03 sethalves: yes
17:03 sethalves: r7rs will save us!!!
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17:09 asumu: stamourv: since a bunch of functions cause that same error, I guess I will report it.
17:10 asumu: And since this is #t:
17:10 asumu: rudybot: (module-path? '(submod "." foo))
17:10 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
17:10 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: #t
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19:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/F0Zf4w
19:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] new 'case' implementation - Jon Zeppieri
19:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] new test cases for `case' - Matthew Flatt
19:57 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] tweaks to `case' implementation - Matthew Flatt
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20:55 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/tlokzQ
20:55 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Make some web server example code use a valid URL. - Eli Barzilay
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20:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to release: http://git.io/NDLrGg
20:56 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] Re-bump the version to an alpha one. - Eli Barzilay
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21:09 eli: asumu: The bad links are still there, and I think that I know what's wrong.
21:09 eli: The demoted links are in docs.racket-lang.org, so the demotion should be done there instead.
21:14 eli: asumu: No, strike that...  But perhaps the problem is that they have both racket-lang.org and www.racket-lang.org -- I've added the same demotions to both.
21:34 asumu: eli: oh good, yeah hopefully that works.
21:34 asumu: BTW: do you manage the redex site? It has some typos.
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21:52 eli: asumu: No, Robby does that.
21:52 asumu: Oh ok.
21:53 lewis17111: here i was about to write a macro when I realised that it's already in racket in the form of the "for*". though I only saw it by chance
21:55 lewis17111: one day I'll find a legitimate use for macros. one day
21:56 asumu: It's worth skimming the guide to discover things like for (chapter 11).
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21:58 lewis17111: I usually just end up searching the manual, but yeah
21:59 eli: lewis17111: It *is* a legitimate use for a macro, just happens that there's already one that does it.
21:59 lewis17111: I meant a legitimate use to write my own :)
21:59 (nick) lewis17111 -> lewis1711
22:00 eli: BTW, `for*' is not like a simple nesting of `for's, it would be tricky to implement it if it wasn't in, and if you wouldn't know a specific trick...
22:01 lewis1711: I was just going to do a double nested one, not arbitrarily nested one
22:01 lewis1711: is even that hard? seems like a pretty simple mapping in my mind
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22:15 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to release: http://git.io/0rmDFA
22:15 RacketCommitBot: [racket/release] New Racket version 5.2.900.1. - Eli Barzilay
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22:22 asumu: eli: I noticed you wrote some of the tests for `file` collection. For a new `unzip` collection, do you think the right thing to do is to add some binary test files and test it on that?
22:23 eli: asumu: unzip collection?
22:23 asumu: I was going to add one. soegaard provided a port of Dave Herman's library.
22:23 asumu: Which I wrote docs for and am now thinking of tests.
22:24 asumu: (it'd be file/unzip)
22:24 eli: Ah, a new library, not a collection.
22:25 asumu: Err, yes.
22:25 eli: FWIW, I had some beginning code there, it'd be needed for packages, as a replacement for the .plt format.
22:27 eli: asumu: Two relevant things to look at: http://common-lisp.net/project/zip/ and https://github.com/jaeschliman/zip
22:28 eli: asumu: In any case, adding binary test files is a bad idea -- instead, make it run zip on known files/dirs and see that it can unzip them.
22:28 asumu: This is what I have https://github.com/takikawa/racket/tree/unzip
22:28 asumu: Okay.
22:30 eli: asumu: It's done in some other test, I don't remember which one.
22:30 eli: base64 maybe.
22:30 eli: asumu: Also, why does it use an async channel?
22:31 eli: asumu: Also², looks like that submodule is a bag of utilities
22:32 eli: And also³, `exact-integer/c' is redundant now that there's a proper predicate.
22:32 asumu: Looks like async-channels are only used in some debug mode.
22:32 asumu: It's mostly a straight port of the PLaneT code.
22:33 eli: Looks like it still needs some serious work.
22:34 eli: Yeah, it's ancent -- `macos' is long dead.
22:35 eli: `bit-set?' is redundant too.
22:36 eli: Submodules use contracts which will make this code fight with itself redundantly.
22:36 eli: (It should be relatively fast.)
22:36 eli: weird (define foo (lambda ...)) style
22:37 eli: `write-chars' is never used
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22:41 eli: asumu: Also redundant: `write-integer', `write-c-string', `write-lines', `read-lines', `mode-symbol/c', `with-output-to-string', `with-temporary-file', `peek-chars', `read-c-string', `read-c-string!'
22:41 eli: so I think that it's better to start with the actual code, then re-add what's needed.
22:41 eli: Also, `skip-bytes' is inefficiently making up a bytestring.
22:42 (quit) chimeracoder: Quit: Leaving.
22:42 eli finishes with an "etc" and goes to sleep.
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22:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/nqdH3g
22:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix `subprocess' test - Matthew Flatt
22:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] ad hoc optimization of `hash-ref' - Matthew Flatt
22:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust `case' expansion to work with Typed Racket - Matthew Flatt
22:49 (part) RacketCommitBot
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