00:00 eli: mithos28_: Note that I'm giving apple the benefit of the doubt and ignore the obvious that chimeracoder is talking about... 00:00 chimeracoder: the only way iOS comes out ahead is if you count smartphones and tablets together, but define tablets such that only high-end (ie, iPad competitors) count 00:00 eli: chimeracoder: For a while, I think that the official excuse was that the holliday season numbers would show the *real* pictures. 00:00 chimeracoder: (high-end naturally excludes the Kindle Fire, which I believe is Android's most popular) 00:00 eli: And now that they didn't there's the tablet thing. 00:01 mithos28_: My numbers might have been a bit stale 00:01 chimeracoder: eli: whose official excuse? 00:01 eli: chimeracoder: s/official/popular/ 00:01 chimeracoder: eli: yes, but for whom? 00:01 eli: For apple fans. 00:01 eli: I'm always amused to read the comments in any ios vs android article. 00:02 eli: It's usually full of gems. 00:02 chimeracoder: eli: dear God, you have more patience than I do ;-) 00:02 eli: It's pure entertainment... 00:02 chimeracoder: Then again, I'm a Linux user working in a very Apple-dominated area, so I hear enough fanboyism as it is :-D 00:03 eli: chimeracoder: Yeah, I'm usually on linux too, often via windows that's used as nothing more than a vnc viewer (and browser bootstrapper). 00:03 eli: But many people on the core group love apple. 00:03 chimeracoder: I wish I could use my Macbook Air at work like that :-( 00:03 mithos28_: All my computers are mostly a terminal + browser 00:04 mithos28_: at work my air is mostly a keyboard (using synergy) 00:04 eli: mithos28_: In any case, a completely different point in why I'm expecting them to fall is the economical angle -- where it has grown in stock value way more than the company has grown. 00:04 eli: IOW, "air" is a relevant term. 00:04 eli: Prefixed by "full of hot" 00:04 mithos28_: eli: I agree with that 00:04 eli: And that means a huge bubble. 00:04 chimeracoder: mithos28_: yeah, I do'nt have a second computer at work (yet), so synergy isn't really an option 00:05 eli: And in the past decade such bubbles tend to explode mercilessly. 00:05 chimeracoder: eli: the problem is, someone would need to replace them 00:05 chimeracoder: the demand for personal computers isn't going to evaporate overnight 00:05 chimeracoder: and from what I can tell, Windows 8 isn't ready to win everyone back yet 00:05 eli: The sad story, IIRC, is that they're a significant portion of the us economy. 00:05 mithos28_: chimeracoder: They can suffer huge stock losses and still provide the same product 00:06 mithos28_: The stock price really doesn't affect their revenue 00:06 eli: Um, why talk about personal computers -- when apple is going in the opposite direction of general computing devices... 00:06 chimeracoder: mithos28_ I'm well aware of how the finances work :-D. I was just interpreting 'fail' as in 'fail in the marketplace' 00:07 chimeracoder: What do you mean? All Apple does is end-user stuff... 00:07 mithos28_: but locked down 00:07 chimeracoder: yes, well, the whole point is that they want people to forget that a personal computer was, at one point, a computer 00:07 mithos28_: Because there is no reason to have a personal computer, just use the cloud(tm) 00:07 mithos28_: Because there is no reason to have a personal computer, just use the cloud(™) 00:07 chimeracoder: instead of a polished toy with silly 'apps' 00:08 eli: (Yes -- that's what I was talking about.) 00:08 chimeracoder: ah 00:08 eli gets distracted in getting a youngling to school 00:09 chimeracoder: School? On a Saturday/Sunday? Where are you? 00:09 eli: Israel... 00:09 eli: One of these sunday-incompatible places. 00:09 chimeracoder: Ah right, I forgot 00:09 chimeracoder: your weekend is Friday/Saturday, right? 00:10 (quit) hash_table: Ping timeout: 252 seconds 00:10 (quit) getpwnam: Ping timeout: 252 seconds 00:10 eli: Sometimes, most places are open on saturday. 00:12 chimeracoder: well, what I mean is, you have a 5-day workweek as well? 00:19 eli: chimeracoder: Most places have 5 days, though not all are out on the same day; and schools are 6 days. 00:20 mithos28_: rudybot: init typed/racket 00:20 rudybot: mithos28_: your typed/racket sandbox is ready 00:20 mithos28_: (: a (Vectorof (Vectorof Natural))) 00:20 chimeracoder: ah, I didn't realize that 00:20 mithos28_: rudybot: (: a (Vectorof (Vectorof Natural))) 00:20 rudybot: mithos28_: Done. 00:21 mithos28_: rudybot: (define a (vector (vector 0))) 00:21 rudybot: mithos28_: Done. 00:21 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org -- logs at http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs/ 00:21 (names) -: gabot Shambles_ chimeracoder mithos28_ sizz Kaylin jacius jrslepak jrslepak_neu jyc_ aidy Znudzon rudybot Shviller cataska noam stchang jimmypk rbarraud sethalves Shvillr surrounder cdidd ivan\ rotty dspt offby1 hyko ppilate mattmight rapacity BeLucid ski SHODAN gf3 stamourv imami|afk basepi m4burns eli eMBee danl_ndi asumu mario-goulart DraX Nisstyre em ivan` elliottcable tauntaun SeanTAllen dsantiago samth_away Araq karswell errstr danking ozzloy igibson 00:21 (names) -: @ChanServ anonus Cryovat jamessan friscosam chandler bremner cky antono bartbes otterdam lusory tewk spanner s_p_a_c_e_d_o_u_ 00:23 mithos28_: Ugh, well I broke TR. That program doesn't work with my changes 00:25 mithos28_: rudybot: (: f (All (a) (a -> (Vectorof a)))) 00:25 rudybot: mithos28_: Done. 00:25 mithos28_: rudybot: (define f vector) 00:25 rudybot: mithos28_: Done. 00:25 (quit) Shambles_: Ping timeout: 255 seconds 00:26 mithos28_: rudybot: (define a (f (f 0))) 00:26 rudybot: mithos28_: error: Type Checker: Summary: 2 errors encountered 00:26 mithos28_: rudybot: would you like to print those errors out? 00:26 rudybot: mithos28_: ok, that way, gnus buttons and bindings isn't deleted from the current built emacs so i thought it would cause errors maybe 00:27 mithos28_: rudybot: (: b (Vectorof (Vectorof Natural))) 00:27 rudybot: mithos28_: ; stderr: "Type Checker: Duplicate definition for a in: #%top-interaction\n#:1:10: Type Checker: Polymorphic function f could not be applied to arguments:\nArgument 1:\n Expected: a\n Given: (Vectorof Integer)\n\nResult type: (Vectorof a)\nExpected result: (Vectorof (Vectorof Exact-Nonnegative-Integer))\n in: (#%app f (#%app f (quote 0)))\n" 00:27 (join) Shambles_ 00:27 mithos28_: rudybot: 2 00:27 rudybot: mithos28_: ; Value: 2 00:27 rudybot: mithos28_: ; stdout: "- : Integer [generalized from Positive-Byte]\n" 00:27 mithos28_: rudybot: (define b (f (f 0))) 00:27 rudybot: mithos28_: error: #:1:10: Type Checker: Polymorphic function f could not be applied to arguments: Argument 1: Expected: a Given: (Vectorof Integer) Result type: (Vectorof a) Expected result: (Vectorof (Vectorof Exact-Nonnegative-Integer)) in: (#%app f (#%app f (quote 0))) 00:28 mithos28_: Yeah, special casing primitives for the win. 00:29 chimeracoder: mithos28_: speaking of primitive types, this is basically the code I was going for the other night 00:30 chimeracoder: http://pastebin.com/vWSdacE9 00:30 chimeracoder: I imagine there's got to be a racket macro equivalent (there is in Common Lisp) - I just don't understand Racket/Scheme macros well enough to know how 00:31 mithos28_: why do you need a macro? you can write an automap function, that takes a function and returns the automapped one. 00:31 chimeracoder: mithos28_: yes, but I can't do that and rebind it to the original name 00:31 mithos28_: What syntax do you want to write? 00:32 chimeracoder: in racket? 00:32 chimeracoder: something like this: 00:32 chimeracoder: http://pastebin.com/DnPEtFcr 00:33 mithos28_: would define/automap work? 00:33 chimeracoder: In Python, writing "@somedecorator" is the same as writing "my_function = somedecorator(myfunction)" 00:33 chimeracoder: define/automap? I don't follow 00:34 mithos28_: give me a sec, and ill have a prototype 00:34 chimeracoder: sure, thanks 00:36 mithos28_: https://gist.github.com/3115010 00:36 mithos28_: rudybot: init racket 00:36 rudybot: mithos28_: your sandbox is ready 00:37 mithos28_: rudybot: (define-syntax-rule (define/automap (name arg) bodies) (define (name new-arg) (define (old arg) bodies) (if (list? new-arg) (map old new-arg) (old arg)))) 00:37 rudybot: mithos28_: Done. 00:37 chimeracoder: (I really should start using gist more....) 00:37 mithos28_: rudybot: (define/automap (f x) (* x 2)) 00:37 rudybot: mithos28_: Done. 00:37 mithos28_: rudybot: (f 2) 00:37 rudybot: mithos28_: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: x in module: 'program 00:37 chimeracoder: hmm, that looks like it might work; let me see 00:38 mithos28_: messed it up 00:38 mithos28_: fixed it though 00:38 mithos28_: rudybot: (define-syntax-rule (define/automap (name arg) bodies) (define (name new-arg) (define (old arg) bodies) (if (list? new-arg) (map old new-arg) (old new-arg)))) 00:38 rudybot: mithos28_: Done. 00:38 mithos28_: rudybot: (define/automap (f x) (* x 2)) 00:38 rudybot: mithos28_: Done. 00:38 mithos28_: rudybot: (f 2) 00:38 rudybot: mithos28_: ; Value: 4 00:39 mithos28_: rudybot: (f '(4 5 6)) 00:39 rudybot: mithos28_: ; Value: (8 10 12) 00:43 mithos28_: stamourv: you around? 00:47 chimeracoder: mithos28_: I think I'm doing something wrong (also, I think my example syntax before was misleading) 00:48 chimeracoder: basically, I'm looking to allow a function definition and function call something like this: 00:48 chimeracoder: http://pastebin.com/ePwuJiy9 00:49 mithos28_: You missed the last line, but look at my interaction with rudybot 00:49 chimeracoder: Yeah, I just saw that :-) 00:49 chimeracoder: was in my terminal; wasn't paying attention to the chat ;-) 00:49 mithos28_: just use notifications 00:50 mithos28_: I have it so chats pop up over everything for a split second 00:50 chimeracoder: I do that for when I'm mentioned, but if I do that for everything that's said in the room, I find it too distracting 00:51 chimeracoder: alright, awesome, this does what I want - thanks! :-D 00:51 mithos28_: no problem 00:51 chimeracoder: I've got to say, migrating over to Racket from Common Lisp this past month has been a lot of fun 00:58 Kaylin: has been a racket* 01:00 bremner: rudybot: distract chimeracoder 01:00 rudybot: bremner: Note that I'm giving apple the benefit of the doubt and ignore the obvious that chimeracoder is talking about... 01:00 bremner whistles innocently. 01:01 Kaylin: :P 01:02 (quit) Nisstyre: Ping timeout: 264 seconds 01:02 chimeracoder sighs 01:03 chimeracoder: is rudybot written in racket/open source? 01:03 bremner: yes and yes 01:04 bremner: rudybot: source 01:04 rudybot: bremner: git clone git://github.com/offby1/rudybot.git 01:04 chimeracoder: nice 01:52 (quit) jacius: Remote host closed the connection 02:30 (join) josdeha_rt 02:30 (join) mceier 02:43 (join) Nisstyre 02:44 (join) lebro 02:52 (join) gciolli 02:55 (quit) gciolli: Client Quit 03:12 (quit) chimeracoder: Ping timeout: 246 seconds 03:19 (quit) sizz: Read error: Connection reset by peer 03:19 (join) sizz 03:26 (join) sizz_ 03:27 (quit) sizz: Ping timeout: 248 seconds 03:44 (nick) imami|afk -> banseljaj 03:47 (join) antithesis 04:05 (quit) lebro: Remote host closed the connection 04:06 (quit) Kaylin: Quit: Leaving. 04:09 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org -- logs at http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs/ 04:09 (names) -: gabot antithesis sizz_ Nisstyre mceier josdeha_rt Shambles_ mithos28_ jrslepak jrslepak_neu jyc_ aidy Znudzon rudybot Shviller cataska noam stchang jimmypk rbarraud sethalves Shvillr surrounder cdidd ivan\ rotty dspt offby1 hyko ppilate mattmight rapacity BeLucid ski SHODAN gf3 stamourv banseljaj basepi m4burns eli eMBee danl_ndi asumu mario-goulart DraX em ivan` elliottcable tauntaun SeanTAllen dsantiago samth_away Araq karswell errstr danking ozzloy 04:09 (names) -: igibson @ChanServ anonus s_p_a_c_e_d_o_u_ spanner tewk lusory otterdam bartbes antono cky bremner chandler friscosam Cryovat jamessan 04:19 (quit) Shambles_: Quit: Leaving. 04:19 (join) Shambles_ 04:55 (quit) ski: Ping timeout: 255 seconds 04:56 (join) dzhus 05:02 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org -- logs at http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs/ 05:02 (names) -: gabot dzhus Shambles_ antithesis sizz_ Nisstyre mceier josdeha_rt mithos28_ jrslepak jrslepak_neu jyc_ aidy Znudzon rudybot Shviller cataska noam stchang jimmypk rbarraud sethalves Shvillr surrounder cdidd ivan\ rotty dspt offby1 hyko ppilate mattmight rapacity BeLucid SHODAN gf3 stamourv banseljaj basepi m4burns eli eMBee danl_ndi asumu mario-goulart DraX em ivan` elliottcable tauntaun SeanTAllen dsantiago samth_away Araq karswell errstr danking ozzloy 05:02 (names) -: igibson @ChanServ anonus s_p_a_c_e_d_o_u_ spanner tewk lusory otterdam bartbes antono cky bremner chandler friscosam Cryovat jamessan 05:11 (quit) josdeha_rt: Remote host closed the connection 05:13 (join) bitonic 05:30 (quit) jyc_: Read error: Connection reset by peer 05:31 (join) jyc_ 05:34 (join) bjz 05:35 (quit) antithesis: Quit: antithesis 05:44 (join) masm 05:48 (quit) bitonic: Remote host closed the connection 05:49 (join) bitonic 06:11 (quit) jyc_: Read error: Connection reset by peer 06:26 (quit) mithos28_: Read error: Connection reset by peer 06:26 (join) mithos28 06:38 (join) soegaard 06:45 (quit) mithos28: Quit: mithos28 07:04 (quit) rbarraud: Ping timeout: 255 seconds 07:31 (join) jeapostrophe 07:40 (join) acarrico 07:52 (quit) jeapostrophe: Ping timeout: 244 seconds 08:10 (join) Shvillr_ 08:10 (quit) Shviller: Disconnected by services 08:10 (nick) Shvillr_ -> Shviller 08:16 (join) antithesis 08:46 (join) maahes 08:48 (quit) cdidd: Quit: Leaving 08:51 (join) cdidd 09:07 (join) RacketCommitBot 09:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/2HKylQ 09:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] use a more descriptive name in the identifier generated by define-on-demand - Robby Findler 09:07 (part) RacketCommitBot 09:44 (join) getpwnam 09:44 (join) hash_table 09:45 (join) jesusito 09:50 (join) jeremyheiler 09:55 (join) mye 10:01 (join) anRch 10:16 (quit) jeremyheiler: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. 10:34 (join) mithos28 10:55 (quit) jesusito: Ping timeout: 244 seconds 10:56 (quit) soegaard: Quit: soegaard 11:05 (join) yoklov 11:14 (quit) anRch: Quit: anRch 11:21 (join) jesusito 11:22 (join) bitonic` 11:24 (quit) bitonic: Ping timeout: 246 seconds 11:35 (join) bitonic`` 11:37 (quit) bitonic`: Ping timeout: 246 seconds 11:47 (quit) yoklov: Quit: computer sleeping 11:56 (quit) dzhus: Read error: Operation timed out 12:20 (quit) bitonic``: Ping timeout: 265 seconds 12:20 (join) yoklov 12:33 (quit) masm: Ping timeout: 240 seconds 12:34 (join) josdeha_rt 12:39 (join) MayDaniel 12:39 (join) RacketCommitBot 12:39 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/z4RGOw 12:39 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] move commented-out tests to `test' submodule - Matthew Flatt 12:39 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix bytecode validation bug - Matthew Flatt 12:39 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix optimizer bug - Matthew Flatt 12:39 (part) RacketCommitBot 12:40 (part) josdeha_rt 12:52 mithos28: Are there plans for racket to support parallelism with shared memory? 12:58 (join) jeapostrophe 13:07 bremner: mithos28: futures do that, no? 13:08 mithos28: bremner: Don't they have problems with allocation 13:09 bremner: oh, I don't know. So you have in mind some parallel loop macro, or? 13:09 (part) antithesis 13:10 mithos28: I want places, without the serialization requirement 13:10 mithos28: so that functions can be shared 13:10 bremner: gotcha 13:12 (join) soegaard 13:13 (join) Shviller 13:26 (join) mungojelly 13:32 (quit) bjz: Quit: Leaving... 13:33 (quit) soegaard: Quit: soegaard 13:42 (join) soegaard 13:48 (quit) yoklov: Quit: computer sleeping 13:51 (join) noam__ 13:51 (quit) noam: Ping timeout: 265 seconds 14:01 (join) snearch 14:09 (quit) jeapostrophe: Ping timeout: 252 seconds 14:29 (quit) soegaard: Quit: soegaard 14:33 offby1: mithos28: my hunch is "no plans any time soon" 14:34 mithos28: offby1: Which sucks, because I don't actually need the shared memory other than the module registry 14:35 mithos28: But access to that gets you access to tons of mutable memory 14:36 offby1: I vaguely recall reading something about the plans for concurrency, and (this may surprise you) but it turns out concurrency is hard :) 14:36 mithos28: concurrency is easy, parallelism is hard 14:37 offby1: understanding the difference between the two is hard, apparently 14:37 offby1: for me 14:37 mithos28: threads give you concurrency 14:37 mithos28: racket threads that is 14:37 offby1: Dying is easy. Comedy is hard. 14:38 mithos28: I think the hard part is that single threadness is baked into the vm in lots of places 14:38 mithos28: Sorta like the GIL in python 14:44 (join) dnolen 14:46 (join) Kaylin 15:17 (join) juanfra 15:28 (join) jacius 16:02 (join) soegaard 16:11 (join) jeapostrophe 16:11 (quit) jeapostrophe: Changing host 16:11 (join) jeapostrophe 16:16 (quit) jeapostrophe: Ping timeout: 265 seconds 16:19 (quit) snearch: Quit: Verlassend 16:48 (quit) soegaard: Quit: soegaard 16:53 (join) jeapostrophe 16:53 (quit) jeapostrophe: Changing host 16:53 (join) jeapostrophe 17:06 (quit) mye: Quit: Leaving 17:11 (join) untrusted 17:15 (join) jao 17:15 (quit) jao: Changing host 17:15 (join) jao 17:16 (quit) jeapostrophe: Ping timeout: 252 seconds 17:18 (nick) banseljaj -> imami|afk 17:21 (join) rbarraud 17:28 (quit) Kaylin: Quit: Leaving. 17:31 (nick) rudybot -> really-human 17:51 (join) jyc 17:51 (quit) MayDaniel: Read error: Connection reset by peer 18:01 (quit) untrusted: Remote host closed the connection 18:21 (join) ski 18:35 (quit) jesusito: Remote host closed the connection 19:02 (quit) cdidd: Ping timeout: 265 seconds 19:08 mithos28: samth_away: ping 19:18 mithos28: lazy require allows circular dependencies? Wow, learned something new. 19:34 (join) bitonic 19:47 (quit) bitonic: Ping timeout: 246 seconds 19:49 (join) bjz 20:15 (quit) jrslepak_neu: Ping timeout: 265 seconds 20:16 (join) jrslepak_neu 20:25 (join) Kaylin 21:01 (join) yoklov 21:21 (quit) yoklov: Quit: computer sleeping 21:24 (join) yoklov 21:26 (quit) yoklov: Client Quit 21:40 (quit) jrslepak_neu: Quit: leaving 21:40 (join) yoklov 21:41 (join) jrslepak_neu 22:29 (quit) mithos28: Quit: mithos28 22:36 (quit) juanfra: Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6 22:37 (join) mithos28 23:07 (join) vu3rdd 23:07 (quit) vu3rdd: Changing host 23:07 (join) vu3rdd 23:15 (quit) dnolen: Remote host closed the connection 23:30 (join) Fare 23:36 (join) antithesis 23:41 (join) jeapostrophe 23:41 (quit) jeapostrophe: Changing host 23:41 (join) jeapostrophe 23:45 (quit) Fare: Quit: Leaving