00:13 jonrafkind demotes fare for talking to no one in particular
00:16 Fare: jonrafkind, do you?
00:16 jonrafkind: yea
00:17 Fare: is your source code available somewhere, to mimic?
00:17 Fare: learning by imitation is more enlightening than by groveling manuals
00:17 jonrafkind: ill tar it up
00:17 Fare: thanks
00:18 Fare: I assume there's a way to escape to TeX or some such if I really want math formulas or sequents, etc.
00:18 Fare: (or builtin support for denotational semantics, etc?)
00:19 jonrafkind: redex knows how to typeset itself
00:19 jonrafkind: i dont know if you can do denotational semantics with it though
00:20 jonrafkind: http://www.cs.utah.edu/~rafkind/tmp/honu-paper.tar.gz
00:23 Fare: thanks!
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00:33 Fare: is that sigalternate lang compatible with ACM paper standards?
00:34 jonrafkind: gpce uses it, which is an acm conference
00:34 jonrafkind: if you want to use sigplan just change it to #lang sigplan
00:35 jonrafkind: you need git head to make sigalternate work
00:36 adu: Fare: I'm starting to love scribble
00:38 Fare: compiling git head...
00:38 Fare: adu: how so?
00:38 adu: I'm writing websites in scribble
00:38 adu: like: http://andydude.github.com/droscheme/cmd/gos.html
00:39 Fare already adopted scribble syntax for his CL documentation (though sometimes mixing it with old skribe syntax - I haven't converted my old code base)
00:41 (quit) mhr__: Quit: Page closed
00:44 Fare: adu: I would have use if* instead of if2 -- it matches the if* from franz / allegro / *
00:45 adu: oh
00:45 adu: thanks
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02:59 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org -- logs at http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs/
02:59 (names) -: gabot jrslepak_neu stchang stamourv dnolen hkBst jesyspa mceier lisppaste rbarraud jyc ski Aethaeryn slepakjr adu Araq Nisstyre karswell Shambles_ Shviller Myk267 imami|afk noam Shvillr errstr _tca surrounder maahes aidy em hyko gf3 danking basepi dsantiago ozzloy acarrico rotty dspt offby1 igibson peeeep @ChanServ ivan\ BeLucid DrDuck anonus sethalves cataska sizz m4burns s_p_a_c_e_d_o_u_ spanner elliottcable tewk sid0 jimmypk lusory SHODAN otterdam
02:59 (names) -: bartbes asumu antono SeanTAllen cky rapacity bremner chandler rudybot ivan` tauntaun DraX mario-goulart friscosam jamessan Cryovat eMBee
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06:26 bitonic: can you do everything hygienic macros can do with non-hygienic ones? I don't mean doing them in the same way - e.g. you might want the user of the macros to pass some symbols manually
06:27 bitonic: but is there something that you can't express with hygienic macros? I'd think that that's not the case
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08:13 samth: bitonic: there are some macros that can't be written without hygiene
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08:42 bitonic: samth: what about the other way around?
08:43 samth: bitonic: with unhygenic macros you can break the abstractions created by hygenic macros
08:43 samth: whereas with a hygenic system, such as in racket, you can't do that
08:46 bitonic: samth: OK, but assuming good programming, are they functionally equivalent?
08:47 samth: i'm not sure what you mean by "assuming good programming", but i think there's a lot more you can do with hygenic systems
08:54 bitonic: samth: well, assuming precautions against accidental captures
08:57 samth: in that case, then hygenic macros are much more expressive
08:58 samth: there's just much more information to work with
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09:05 bitonic: OK. thanks. do you have a link? I was trying to convince someone about this
09:08 samth: a link for what?
09:08 samth: there's not an easy way to prove this, other than to note that there's more information available
09:08 samth: and that more things have been built using hygenic macros
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09:14 bitonic: samth: I don't know something convincing :P
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09:47 hkBst: bitonic: I think the easy side is to show that with a hygienic-by-default-but-you-can-change-it system like syntax-case you can easily write the exact same macros as in unhygienic systems by just tossing the extra information about where an identifier comes from and all that. Then on the other hand there are examples of variable capture that can be prevented with judicious gensym usage, but another form of capture cannot so be prevented.
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10:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 6 new commits to master: http://git.io/B1YUkA
10:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] futures: makestack overflow trigger a request for future-thread memory - Matthew Flatt
10:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] improve JIT support for unboxed flonums in a tail-call case - Matthew Flatt
10:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix no-future build to be bytecode-consistent with future build - Matthew Flatt
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11:37 tim-brown: have a nice weekend everyone
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12:43 ianjneu: Anyone know how to get standalone scrbl documents to link back to docs.racket-lang.org?
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12:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/MY0ziQ
12:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Correcting type error in latex-match: target-url-addr can be a path, which can't be consumed by regexp-replace - Danny Yoo
12:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix type of andmap and ormap on empty lists. - Vincent St-Amour
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12:44 stamourv: eli: You can close dyoo's pull request.
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12:48 ianjneu: --redirect doesn't actually redirect.
12:52 ianjneu: ah, also needed to have ++xref-in setup/xref load-collections-xref
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13:07 ianjneu: scribblers: how do you render #\u03BB? Wrapping in @racket{.} gives me "#\\u03BB"
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13:12 samth: what character is that?
13:13 samth: oh, lambda
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13:13 ianjneu: just any unicode character.
13:14 samth: @racket[-] is probably what you want
13:14 samth: @racket{} is basically never the right thing
13:15 ianjneu: derp, of course.
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15:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/CfO8FA
15:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] doc clarification on exception handlers - Matthew Flatt
15:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] scribble/*-properties: allow literal bytes in *-additions - Matthew Flatt
15:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] improve docs on `gensym', `generate-temporaries', and compiled code - Matthew Flatt
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16:00 asumu: ¬_¬
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16:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/THBZTw
16:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Add a "favicon.ico" copy, and a 404 page. - Eli Barzilay
16:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Redo text sculpturing. - Eli Barzilay
16:07 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Some styling. - Eli Barzilay
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18:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/gxlfrQ
18:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] repair to exn doc repairs - Matthew Flatt
18:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] scribble: add --dest-base flag - Matthew Flatt
18:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] error-message repair - Matthew Flatt
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19:01 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/v3WPkA
19:01 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix doc typos - Asumu Takikawa
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