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12:26 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/VSMtKg
12:26 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Rackety - Robby Findler
12:26 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fixed up and added in the struct hierarchy diagram from the Scribble paper - Robby Findler
12:26 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] clarify has-contract? and prop:contracted relationship - Robby Findler
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12:28 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/c71o0Q
12:28 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Revert "a start on getting text rendering running automatically via 'raco setup'" - Robby Findler
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14:39 neilv: the drracket contour makes more sense to me on a tall monitor. http://i.imgur.com/9YqrR.png
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14:53 samth: neilv: it also makes more sense if you use 'insert large letters'
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14:55 neilv: samth: yes. i think i blogged about that sudden realization one day
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14:59 neilv: well, i can't find it, but i did find myself talking about running drscheme 200alpha on my p5-166 with 48MB ram, and noting that 32MB would be the minimum if one wanted to run check syntax
15:00 samth: :)
15:02 neilv: my dualcore 2ghz with gigs of free ram is sluggish at editing with drracket online check syntax
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15:05 neilv: drracket gets 100% of course during online check syntax updates, but x goes to 70% long enough to show up in my process monitor, which makes me wonder whether x-intensive updates, like caching lots of anti-alias-rendered stuff in buffers, is happening
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15:15 neilv: aha! it's the contour making all the crazy sluggishness
15:15 neilv: maybe it's not on enough of an idle delay
15:16 neilv: the few-second lags in the middle of typing a few letters was painful
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16:00 samth: stamourv: i think this is your fault: http://drdr.racket-lang.org/24858/collects/typed/tests/test-docs-complete.rkt
16:00 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/6tq48bq
16:01 stamourv: samth: That doesn't look familiar.
16:01 samth: pi.f?
16:01 samth: i don't think i did that
16:01 stamourv: I think it may be neilt's.
16:02 stamourv: He's been adding stuff to racket/meth, and then to TR.
16:02 stamourv: err. s/meth/math/
16:02 bremner: heh. racket/crystal/meth
16:04 stamourv: samth: Also, do you know why the submodules test is failing?
16:04 samth: stamourv: yes, because i need to give it an argument in the drdr config
16:04 samth: will be fixed soon
16:04 stamourv: Ok.
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16:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/sbCBKA
16:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix command-line arguments to test in drdr. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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16:25 stamourv: samth: :D
16:25 stamourv: Drdr will finally stop sending me angry emails.
16:27 jonrafkind: drdr > /dev/null
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16:38 stamourv: jonrafkind: You do realize that DrDr is very useful, right?
16:46 neilv: racket has some of the best names for things
16:46 (nick) otterdam -> cockroach
16:47 neilv: drdr works a few different ways
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16:56 mario-goulart: Quick question: how does racket implement the order of parameters for SRFI-13's `string-filter' and `string-delete'?
16:56 mario-goulart: (string-filter char/char-set/pred s [start end]) or (string-filter s char/char-set/pred [start end]) ?
16:57 stamourv: mario-goulart: If you require srfi/13, it's probably the order specified in the srfi.
16:57 stamourv: If you're talking about versions in racket/string (maybe there are, I don't know), I'd have to check.
16:57 stamourv: rudybot: (require srfi/13)
16:57 rudybot: stamourv: your sandbox is ready
16:57 rudybot: stamourv: Done.
16:58 stamourv: rudybot: (string-filter (lambda (x) (equal? x #\a)) "ababa")
16:58 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: "aaa"
16:58 stamourv: rudybot: (string-filter "ababa" (lambda (x) (equal? x #\a)))
16:58 rudybot: stamourv: error: string-filter: Non-string value #<procedure>
16:58 stamourv: mario-goulart: ^
16:59 stamourv: Also, racket/string does not have equivalent functions.
16:59 mario-goulart: Thanks, stamourv.  So it seems that implements the order according to srfi-13.  I noticed that guile and larceny invert the two first parameters.
17:00 mario-goulart: (I _suppose_ that larceny does that -- haven't actually tried it -- since their tests assume the parameters are inverted)
17:00 stamourv: Weird. Implementing a srfi without following its API sounds like a bad idea.
17:02 mario-goulart: Indeed.  Maybe it changed at some point.
17:03 mario-goulart: I see a comment in chickens's implementation (based on the reference implementation) about string-count: "original code had "s" and "criteria" in the wrong order".  So I suppose there were some buggy reference implementations.
17:04 mario-goulart: Maybe larceny and guile are using an outdated one.
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17:13 Shambles_: Is it still the case that you can't drag snips between different pasteboards, and there's no other way to perform drag and drop within a application?
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17:18 neilv: i always wished that define-struct would use a colon in the generated identifiers. now i am painfully wishing it
17:24 sethalves: srfi-9 lets you pick them, right?
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17:41 neilv: there is a convention of not using colons
17:42 neilv: plus, if you break convention, then scribble defstruct doesn't work
17:43 Shambles_: I've been trying to figure out how you would write something with a GUI like Windows Explorer.  It looks like it's possible to drag-and-drop  in a icon-view (though you would have to write the icon-view widget), but there would be no way to drop onto directories in the tree-view (hierarchal-list%), both because hierarchal-list% has no support for that,
17:43 Shambles_: and if you reimplemented a tree-view and made it a separate pasteboard% so you could have scrollbars you couldn't drag items from the icon-view to the tree-view.
17:44 neilv: the person who best knows the answer is on the email list, but not on irc
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17:44 Shambles_: I'll post on there since you keep pushing me to, but I dread doing it.  I have no idea if this person will respond either.
17:45 stamourv: Shambles_: He's usually pretty responsive, but he's currently on vacation.
17:45 samth: Shambles_: what's so scary about the mailing list?
17:48 Shambles_: samth: Lots of mail traffic (supposedly I can avoid subscribing in this situation).  Very, very slow response time.  Often higher flame-to-content ratio.  Almost universally tons of spam.
17:49 Shambles_: samth: Basically imagine your typical user-hostile programming IRC channel, then make it much worse in every way, and add Viagra and scam content. :P
17:49 stamourv: Shambles_: The Racket list is pretty much flame/spam-free.
17:50 Shambles_: stamourv: If you say so.  I'm writing the e-mail now.
17:50 Kaylin: shut up noob!
17:50 Kaylin jests.
17:50 samth: Shambles_: if by very very slow response time, then you mean slower than irc, then yes
17:50 Shambles_: Kaylin: I'm used to it. :P
17:50 samth: otherwise, i think the racket list has quite good response time
17:50 Shambles_: samth: I mean day to weeks.  Days is very typical.
17:50 stamourv: Shambles_: You may want to read http://www.mail-archive.com/users@racket-lang.org/msg12763.html
17:51 samth: the other problems are not things seen on the racket lists
17:51 Cryovat: Hey samth, I heard rumors that you're in China :o
17:51 samth: Cryovat: was
17:51 samth: now back
17:51 Cryovat: How was it?
17:51 samth: really neat
17:51 samth: i enjoyed it quite a lot
17:51 Cryovat: Beijing?
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17:52 samth: Cryovat: yeah
17:52 Shambles_: stamourv: That is good to know.  I didn't realize I'd have to subscribe.  Looks like it will take a while.
17:52 Cryovat: I'm envious, it seems amazing
17:52 samth: neilv: why do you need both of those (re: bug report)
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17:53 samth: Shambles_: you can post without being subscribed, but that requires eli to manually approve the message
17:54 Shambles_: samth: I'll probably just have to make another account somewhere to hold the mailing list results.  It'll be less aggravating to all involved than having to make people manually moderate my stuff and whatnot.  I don't have a host that will sort my mail by origin so I'll have to make another account.
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17:55 eli: Shambles_: I don't see anything in the moderation queue.
17:55 eli: Unless you're divulgocursos@yahoo.com.br
17:55 eli: (Which looked like a spam post.)
17:56 neilv: samth: was trying to work around the new "struct" stomping on my namespace with the non-"make-" constructor, because it was super-inconvenient
17:57 samth: neilv: `define-struct` was already binding the same set of identifiers
17:57 eli: Shambles_: And re posting in general, I very strongly prefer that people subscribe, otherwise you depend on me identifying your post as a valid one, which can be unreliable given large number of spam posts.
17:57 samth: `struct` in a "plain" configuration binds strictly *fewer* identifiers
17:57 eli: Shambles_: But once you subscribe, you can set the mailman "no-mail" option which will prevent emails from being delievered to you.
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17:59 neilv: samth: iirc, (define-struct s (f)) would let me use the "s-f" identifier for something else. now i can't seem to
17:59 samth: neilv: the behavior of s-f hasn't changed at all
18:01 neilv: samth: i'm looking at 5.2.1 now. i sure thought i used to be able to do:  (define-struct s (f)) (define s-f 42)
18:01 samth: neilv: that would never have worked, i don't think
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18:04 Shambles_: eli: I just subscribed as shambles-racket, so I aught to be pretty easy to spot.
18:07 neilv: samth: ok, 4.2.5 won't let me either, so either i was misremembering or it was in a really old version
18:07 samth: neilv: it will woork at the repl
18:07 eli: Shambles_: Yeah, I saw that -- you can still set that option if you don't want to receive replies via email.  If you don't want replies from people too (which most clients will usually do), you can also add a `reply-to' header.
18:07 neilv: thanks for spoiling my moral indignation
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18:18 Shambles_: eli: I just sent my e-mail (i.e. made a fool of myself on the mailing list).  It should be pretty clear it's not a spam post.
18:20 eli: Shambles_: Since you're on the list, it works without my interaction, spam or not...
18:21 Shambles_: eli: Alright.  I await my flames/spam/moral-indignation. :P
18:26 stamourv: Shambles_: An on-topic answer would be more likely on that ML.
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18:27 stamourv: We're nice, happy people in Racket-land.
18:27 Shambles_: stamourv: I hope so.  Hopefully I won't bother anybody too much.  At least I can start telling neilv "I posted it" every time they tell me to.
18:27 Shambles_: stamourv: Everybody but sad Chad?
18:29 stamourv: I think he's sad because he hasn't found Racket yet.
18:29 stamourv: Anyway, heading out. Good night.
18:29 Shambles_: stamourv: Take care.
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19:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 6 new commits to master: http://git.io/BpCoBA
19:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Some style things. - Eli Barzilay
19:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Improve some code, add a "verify" verb to verify paths in props info. - Eli Barzilay
19:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix lots of prop paths. - Eli Barzilay
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21:13 yoklov: is it common (or heard of, at least) for scheme implementations to allow (car '())?
21:13 yoklov: trying to get some code to work in racket and wondering if that's the issue
21:14 yoklov: wait, i think i know the problem
21:14 neilv: i don't recall seeing (car '()) before, and i would be surprised if that's correct anywhere
21:15 yoklov: well, it's not (car '()) so much as (car something-that-might-be-null)
21:15 yoklov: but yeah
21:16 neilv: car works on pairs.  a null is a list, but it's not a pair.
21:17 yoklov: right, but common lisp allows (car nil) [i think], so i was wondering if there were dialects of scheme which did that as well.
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21:19 yoklov: i'm going through dybvig's "three implementation models for scheme" and was wondering why my test code didn't work, but i think it's because the environment is totally empty :r
21:20 yoklov: fascinating stuff though, it's like another chapter of sicp; including the part where i don't understand the last section :)
21:21 eli: yoklov: It's a popular choice for non-scheme lisps.
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21:22 yoklov: yeah, iirc clojure does it that way too.
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21:52 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/aN-KVw
21:52 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Drop many uses of "gracket" and "gracket-text" in drdr command-lines. - Eli Barzilay
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21:53 eli: yoklov: I'm not surprised, clojure has some very modern sides, together with ancient Lisp habits.
22:03 yoklov: yeah, i tend to like almost all of its design decisions, but it doesn't have the simplicity of scheme, which wins when trying to study programming language design
22:07 yoklov: and for some things you need slightly more state than clojure offers.  cyclic data is a mess.
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23:36 didi: Some time ago I wrote a bug report suggesting a change in `stream-map'. I didn't get a response, so I thought it would be fun to try to make it myself. I did try it and, although I'm a newbie, I have a patch. Is there some interest in it? How can I share it?
23:36 mithos28: github pull request
23:36 didi: Oh, github. OK.
23:36 didi: Will do.
23:52 didi: mithos28: OK, I did it. But I'm not familiar with github's interface.
23:53 didi: I hope I did nothing wrong. :^)
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23:55 jonrafkind: did you do any other stream functions, like stream-for?
23:56 mithos28: So you did the pull request fine, your code has some minor issues though
23:56 mithos28: with regards to streams with multiple values