00:04 neilv: eli: if you see an error message in the logs, i might be able to fix or work around on my end
00:08 (quit) veer: Read error: Connection reset by peer
00:13 (join) veer
00:18 eli: neilv: What time?
00:28 Shambles_: I can't help but imagine McFly using continuations to go Back to the Future.
00:29 (quit) drumond19: Remote host closed the connection
00:37 neilv: eli: i just got another failure a few seconds ago (00:37)
00:38 neilv: Shambles_: heh
00:38 Shambles_: What is mcfly anyway?
00:38 Shambles_: And you said you were working on some kind of book?
00:38 neilv: mcfly is an aid for developing planet packages
00:38 Kaylin: marty mcfly is the character from back to the future series.
00:39 Shambles_: Oh I know the character, just not the programming project.
00:39 neilv: book is for professionals coming to racket from industry
00:39 Kaylin: oh yea idk there either
00:40 Shambles_: I'm guessing that's not Realm of Racket then.  I'd probably still be interested in it.  Anything about it available yet?
00:40 neilv: no
00:40 Shambles_: How does mcfly help you develop PLaneT packages?
00:41 neilv: long story, sorry, don't have time for irc
00:41 (quit) jao: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
00:41 Shambles_: Okay.
00:42 neilv: just here in case eli is awake and gets chance to look at error logs, so i can possibly upload
00:43 eli: neilv: No errors in the apache logs, and the usual planet logs look the same; but I finally found where it stores stderr, and there's something that looks relevant there:
00:44 eli: package-creation.ss: getting metadata
00:44 eli: package-creation.ss: got info.ss
00:44 eli: Monday, June 11th, 2012 12:37:33am:
00:44 eli: member: not a proper list: "4.x"
00:44 neilv: oh, duh
00:44 neilv: thanks
00:44 neilv: it's mcfly's fault
00:45 eli: ok
00:48 neilv: strange. that failed again. i think i need to go through and check info.rkt against the documentation closely
00:49 neilv: would be nice if the planet server reported error messages to the user. not everyone has a personal line to eli, and "planet fileinject" doesn't check these things
00:51 (join) dented42
00:55 neilv: i think eli is a 5-10 minute walk from me. i could bring him coffee from 7-11 to keep him awake til i upload
00:56 eli: neilv: I should be awake throughout the night, and it's easy now that I know where the logs are.
00:56 neilv: eli: i had another failure after fixing that "4.x" thing
00:56 eli: (Which is tricky, since the apache logs are in one place, the planet server logs in another, and its stdout in yet another.)
00:57 eli: neilv: There's a "4.x" from 12:47:59am
00:57 eli: And after that there are several of these things: default-load-handler: cannot open directory as a file: "/home/wwwplanet/webroot/./servlets" (errno=?)
00:58 eli: Oh, each preceded by a: "Servlet didn't load:"
00:58 neilv: (define repositories       '("4.x"))
00:58 neilv: that looks correct to me
00:59 asumu: Oh, I guess it's Honu day.
00:59 eli: asumu: Yes.
01:02 neilv: nope, upload still fails at 01:01
01:06 neilv: nope, the problem wasn't a file that wouldn't compile but was in compile-omit-files. something else is still the problem
01:08 eli: neilv: The "4.x" thing still shows up.
01:13 neilv: i just tried another upload at 00:13. "4.x" appears nowhere in that file, and it still failed
01:19 neilv: eli: i don't suppose a servlet could be crashed, or stuck in an infinite loop on the original broken upload?
01:20 eli: neilv: I restarted it.
01:21 neilv: i'm going to wireshark this one for proof i didn't upload any 4.x
01:22 neilv: holy crud. it worked
01:22 neilv: eli: thanks!
01:23 eli: neilv: Sounds like it would be hard to find that bug.
01:24 neilv: eli: to reproduce, upload a package with an info.rk with a "repositories" field that has a string instead of a list of strings, and crash planet uploading
01:24 neilv: i can file a bug report later tonight on that
01:24 eli: neilv: ok
01:25 neilv: raco mcfly: Removing development links (on PLaneT server):
01:25 neilv: neil/mcfly:1:0            /home/user/racket/mcfly
01:25 neilv: yay. mcfly-tools noticed the upload
01:50 neilv: http://www.neilvandyke.org/mcfly/
01:52 mithos28: neilv: awesome. Is it usable now?
01:52 neilv: http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket-progedit/ is usable
01:53 neilv: and progedit documentation goes through mcfly and the package was packaged by mcfly-tools
01:54 mithos28: require on that page has a red underline, from no xref I think
01:54 neilv: that's because the racket manual is not on my web site
01:54 mithos28: Can't you link it back to the main page?
01:54 neilv: in my copious spare time, yes
01:56 Cryovat: Hmmm
01:56 Cryovat: Looking at your link, this is basically ed in Racket?
01:59 neilv: Cryovat: similar, but focused on racket syntax objects (so it works with parsers and such)
02:01 Cryovat: Ah, that's very cool :)
02:11 veer: there should be a shorter form for compose and negate may be .. for compose and ! for negate , just a thought
02:11 mithos28: rudybot: (define ! negate)
02:11 rudybot: mithos28: Done.
02:11 mithos28: rudybot: (define .. compose)
02:11 rudybot: mithos28: Done.
02:12 mithos28: veer: done
02:12 veer: yeah well , I mean uniformly in racket
02:14 adu: veer: I might also add ! for set!
02:15 veer: adu: you mean like (! x 2) to mean (set! x 2)
02:16 adu: yeah
02:17 veer: but set! is only 4 letters compare to negate :)
02:17 veer: I think in haskell they have . as compose operator
02:18 adu: yes
02:18 adu: my point was to make you realise the futility of renaming things
02:21 veer: I was just looking for shorter convenient way for compose and negate uniformly in racket
02:21 adu: speaking of which, why is command-line called current-command-line-arguments?
02:22 mithos28: adu: versus?
02:22 mithos28: the current- prefix is because it is a parameter
02:23 adu: ok, but that doesn't explain the -arguments
02:24 mithos28: because they are the arguments to the command-line
02:24 adu: heh
02:24 mithos28: racket inherits from scheme which has a history of long names
02:24 mithos28: see current-output-port
02:24 mithos28: call-with-current-continuation
02:25 Cryovat: I think it's a general style guideline
02:25 Cryovat: Like, "don't use abbreviations"
02:25 neilv: call/cc
02:26 mithos28: well thats because some abbreviations are a lot more sane
02:26 adu: bitwise-arithmetic-shift-left
02:27 veer: scheme do have memq which I assume it is shorthand for membereq?
02:28 adu: mithos28: that's fine
02:28 adu: it's just that command-line in R6RS and R7RS-draft-6 are equivalent to the functionality of current-command-line-arguments with no args
02:29 adu: and it was very confusing to me to find that command-line does exist in racket, but it did too much dwimmery
02:29 mithos28: dwimmery?
02:30 adu: it converts --bla stuff into a hashmap or something
02:30 adu: DWIM = do what I mean
02:31 mithos28: ah, yes it is a very nice macro if you are using those style flags
02:42 (join) RacketCommitBot
02:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/yL42mg
02:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] clarified docs for force-package-building? - Robby Findler
02:42 (part) RacketCommitBot
02:43 (join) __rahul__
02:56 (join) djcoin
03:03 (quit) veer: Read error: Connection reset by peer
03:04 (join) veer
03:04 (quit) jacius: Remote host closed the connection
03:05 (quit) dented42: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
03:25 (quit) dspt: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
03:26 (quit) jonrafkind: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
03:57 (quit) mithos28: Quit: mithos28
03:58 (join) notsosure
04:00 neilv: there was someone in idiocracy who got the name "notsure"
04:02 (join) jesyspa
04:22 (quit) adu: Quit: adu
04:28 (join) p0ntiuS
04:29 (join) snearch
04:30 p0ntiuS: What is the function of the MAP in the racket?
04:35 (quit) p0ntiuS: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
04:40 (quit) Kaylin: Read error: Connection reset by peer
04:41 (join) tim-brown
04:56 (quit) veer: Quit: Leaving
05:01 (quit) neilv: Quit: Leaving
05:02 tim-brown: are there any scheme (or even racket) social groups in london?
05:05 (join) jorick
05:25 (join) antithesis
05:25 (quit) __rahul__: Quit: Leaving
05:33 (join) masm
06:00 (part) tim-brown: "Leaving"
06:00 (join) tim-brown
06:15 (quit) snearch: Quit: Verlassend
06:38 (quit) SeanTAllen: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
06:41 (join) acarrico
06:44 (quit) tim-brown: Remote host closed the connection
06:58 (join) jeapostrophe
06:58 (quit) jeapostrophe: Changing host
06:58 (join) jeapostrophe
07:07 (join) veer
07:24 (join) tim-brown
07:25 (quit) jesyspa: Read error: Connection reset by peer
07:26 djcoin: Do you think "http://www.winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Lisp_Curse.html" may also apply to Racket ? What I mean is : racket can be the most expressive language ever ;
07:27 djcoin: but will this be a issue because each programmer will end up creating its own "syntax", or bending the language in an other way or another - that will make it difficult for other programmer to get it
07:28 djcoin: (Im a newbie in Lisp, racket, scheme, and such - so be tolerant :) maybe my question is irrelevant, or maybe I did not well understand the author's point)
07:30 (join) jesyspa
07:33 tim-brown: the irc logs have a file:  http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs/current which gives the name of the current log
07:34 bremner: djcoin: it's a pretty subjective question. racket does provide a lot more syntax already than some minimalist schemes/lisps. So maybe less re-invention of wheels happens.
07:34 tim-brown: would it be possible to have a current.txt symlink so that, if i wanted to bookmark the latest logs, i can just choose that?
07:35 (join) gciolli
07:45 djcoin: bremner:
07:45 djcoin: oups
07:45 djcoin: I was thinking :)
07:46 (join) rbarraud_
07:46 (quit) rbarraud: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
07:48 (quit) gciolli: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
07:54 (join) notsosur1
07:56 (quit) notsosure: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
07:57 (quit) rbarraud_: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
07:59 (quit) PfhatHome: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
08:01 (quit) cdidd: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
08:02 (join) BeLucid_
08:02 (join) PfhorSlayer
08:02 jorick: djcoin, I think it might be true. It's possibe to augment the reader of racket to add new syntaxes (eg sweet.plt). You can also see scribble for a different syntax example.
08:03 (quit) peeeep: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
08:03 (join) dnolen
08:03 (join) cdidd
08:03 (quit) BeLucid: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
08:08 djcoin: jorick: yeah I know you can do that - and I think it's great. You can create and embed a DSL in racket and so, get the most expressive language. But I was wondering, is this a good "habit", you may fall into a trap of "overengineering" and making a new syntax each time, is it dangerous, etc. related questions
08:08 (join) gciolli
08:09 bremner: djcoin: I guess it's equally possible to overengineer without making new syntax
08:09 djcoin: Of course :)
08:09 jorick: Well... I can't imagine charging my clients for learning / setting up / building my toolkit, so the question is what do you personally prefer.
08:10 jorick: (since you do it in your own time)
08:13 jorick: I try to stay clear of over-engineering by keeping it simple and trying to outweigh the pros and contras of each piece of complexity I add.
08:13 djcoin: jorick: do you do web development ?
08:14 (join) Shvillr_
08:14 jorick: yup
08:14 (quit) kanak: Quit: Leaving.
08:15 (nick) Shvillr_ -> Shviller
08:16 djcoin: jorick: I have basicaly no experience in Racket, but it seems great, I'm wondering about diving in for good. Do you work at ease with Racket for web dev ? (any pros and cons ?)
08:17 jorick: I'm actually just checking it out again, a couple years ago I had learned Scheme earlier while reading SICP. For work I use Drupal (built on PHP) and I hate it with a passion.
08:19 djcoin: lol - Im a Python:javascript programmer ; but half of the company I work it also struggle with Drupal
08:19 djcoin: s/it/in
08:19 jorick: I think it'll probably be hard to sell a site "built in racket" because racket isn't a web framework, it's a language. So your clients will fear being stuck with you.
08:20 jorick: I'm mostly checking it out for internal / personal projects tbh.
08:21 djcoin: Yep
08:23 jorick: But I also believe that if you have a company in which the website is so important that it's kept in-house, there's a strong argument to be made for writing it in racket.
08:23 (join) __rahul__
08:26 jorick: As a PHP programmer, I'm just absolutely floored by some of the features that racket has
08:26 (quit) jeapostrophe: Read error: Operation timed out
08:29 (quit) gciolli: Quit: Leaving.
08:32 (quit) brah: Quit: Page closed
08:34 (join) gciolli
08:39 (join) jeapostrophe
08:39 (quit) jeapostrophe: Changing host
08:39 (join) jeapostrophe
08:49 (quit) jesyspa: Read error: Connection reset by peer
08:50 (join) jonathansizz
08:50 (join) getpwnam
08:51 (join) hash_table
08:54 (join) jesyspa
08:58 (quit) jeapostrophe: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
09:06 (join) kanak
09:28 (quit) getpwnam: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
09:28 (quit) jonathansizz: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
09:28 (quit) hash_table: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
09:30 (quit) __rahul__: Quit: Leaving
09:34 (join) jao
09:34 (quit) jao: Changing host
09:34 (join) jao
09:49 (join) mithos28
09:49 (quit) jesyspa: Read error: Connection reset by peer
09:54 (join) jesyspa
10:02 (quit) notsosur1: Read error: Connection reset by peer
10:17 (quit) jrslepak: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
10:20 (join) adu
10:33 (quit) adu: Quit: adu
10:34 (join) dspt
10:38 (quit) djcoin: Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2
10:43 (join) netrino
10:44 (join) jrslepak
10:45 (quit) jrslepak: Remote host closed the connection
10:47 (join) getpwnam
10:47 (join) jonathansizz
10:48 (join) hash_table
10:51 (quit) dnolen: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
11:21 (quit) antithesis: Read error: Connection reset by peer
11:22 (quit) veer: Quit: Leaving
11:34 (join) dented42
11:37 (join) Kaylin
11:50 (join) antithesis
11:54 (quit) jorick: Quit: Leaving
11:56 (join) mye
12:09 (quit) jesyspa: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
12:10 (join) jesyspa
12:13 (join) mceier
12:17 (join) anRch
12:23 (join) jonrafkind
12:23 (quit) jonrafkind: Changing host
12:23 (join) jonrafkind
12:32 (quit) gciolli: Quit: Leaving.
12:34 (join) MayDaniel
12:42 (quit) anRch: Quit: anRch
12:51 (join) gciolli
12:54 (quit) jesyspa: Read error: Connection reset by peer
12:54 (join) jesyspa
12:56 Shambles_: Is it accurate to say that "special form"s are used for definition, assignment, and control flow?
12:56 jonrafkind: seems reasonable
12:56 Shambles_: I wasn't sure.  I needed to know to understand some documentation, and everything I could find was rather vague.
13:00 jonrafkind: you can probably just parse it as 'this is a macro'
13:02 Shambles_: Some of what I was reading seemed to indicate it was 'stuff that couldn't be derived from other stuff', but maybe I just wasn't understanding.
13:04 mithos28: It is either a macro, or one of the primitive special forms
13:04 mithos28: set!, let-values, define-values, begin are all examples of the primitive special forms
13:04 (quit) Kaylin: Quit: Leaving.
13:05 Shambles_: Yeah, that would make sense.
13:05 Shambles_: They mentioned set! as a special form.
13:06 (join) snearch
13:17 (quit) snearch: Quit: Verlassend
13:21 (quit) gciolli: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
13:23 (join) Blkt
13:26 Shambles_: Would things like little demo programs, like the old Animal Guessing AI demo, be welcome on PLaneT, or is it only for reusable serious stuff?
13:29 jonrafkind: anything goes
13:31 Shambles_: Would anybody be willing to go over the code of little things like that and tell me how badly I'd gently caressed my code?
13:34 jonrafkind: as long as you never use the SA phrase 'gently caressed' again
13:35 Cryovat: Racket may be a curvy language, but please show some restraint D:
13:35 (quit) MayDaniel: 
13:36 Shambles_: Alright.  Starting out tiny demos that still included everything a Racket program aught to would have helped me understand things better I think.  I have some stuff like that laying around (in other languages) from things like old BASIC games texts and AI texts.
13:48 (join) adu
14:01 (join) anRch
14:09 (join) Blkt`
14:09 Cryovat: Can a module provide a function imported from another module?
14:10 (join) Blkt``
14:12 (quit) Blkt: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
14:14 (quit) Blkt`: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
14:24 bremner: I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.
14:24 bremner: but the exact syntax escapes me.
14:24 bremner: I can look  it up if nobody else knows.
14:26 Cryovat: I think I got it to work
14:26 bremner: ok
14:31 (join) Ipsq
14:43 (join) jacius
14:52 stamourv: Shambles_: IIRC, PLT games is a good source of small self-contained, but complete, programs.
14:53 stamourv: Cryovat: You can provide a definition you got from another module (or from the language) just like any other definition.
14:53 stamourv: rudybot: (module foo racket (provide +))
14:53 rudybot: stamourv: your sandbox is ready
14:53 rudybot: stamourv: Done.
14:54 stamourv: rudybot: (require foo)
14:54 rudybot: stamourv: error: #<undefined>:1:9: foo: standard-module-name-resolver: collection not found: "foo" in any of: (#<path:/mnt/racket-5.2.900.1/collects>) in: foo
14:54 stamourv: rudybot: (require 'foo)
14:54 rudybot: stamourv: Done.
14:54 stamourv: +
14:54 stamourv: rudybot: +
14:54 rudybot: stamourv: ; Value: #<procedure:+>
14:54 stamourv: Cryovat: ^
14:55 stamourv: offby1: rudybot feature request: have "rudybot: ^" make rudybot process the previous line.
14:55 (join) server_failure
14:55 (quit) server_failure: Client Quit
14:55 stamourv: I keep thinking I'm at the REPL and forgetting to prefix messages with "rudybot:".
14:55 (join) server_failure
14:56 Cryovat: Thank you stamourv :)
14:57 Shambles_: stamourv: I see the source code for them now.  Thanks.
14:57 Shambles_: stamourv: I'd still need something else to see how to make PLaneT packages (which some others helped me find), but this covers the rest.
14:59 stamourv: Shambles_: Have you checked out neilv's mcfly?
14:59 stamourv: I haven't tried it, but it's goal is to make writing PLaneT packages easier.
14:59 Shambles_: stamourv: I looked at the documentation for it.  It seemed to be designed for generating documentation javadoc style.
15:00 Cryovat: I'm hoping that some kind soul may have a look at my ffi/vector-in-TR bug someday O:)
15:00 (quit) anRch: Quit: anRch
15:00 Cryovat: Having to resort to some icky closure trickery to not kill my framerate completely :(
15:00 stamourv: Shambles_: I thought it helped keep the package structure and info.rkt files up to date.
15:01 stamourv: Cryovat: samth is your man, but he's kind of in China at the moment.
15:01 stamourv: I can try to have a look, but I doubt it'd be of much use.
15:01 Shambles_: I'm just basing what I said on what is at the top of http://www.neilvandyke.org/mcfly/
15:02 stamourv: I seem to recall neilv saying it could.
15:02 Cryovat: It's no rush, but I appreciate the sentiment :)
15:03 stamourv: Sadly, not all of use are as awesome as Matthew. ;)
15:03 Cryovat: This whole thing feels pretty ironic
15:03 Cryovat: Like
15:03 Cryovat: I spent several evenings rewriting my patchy code to TR to make it go faster
15:03 stamourv: He beat his own speed record over the weekend: 6 minutes from bug reporting time to bug closing time.
15:03 Cryovat: And then I found out that I literally made my code almost 100 times slower
15:04 Shambles_: stamourv: I see that it can do more when I look at the McFly Tools addon.
15:04 Cryovat: I didn't research well enough into how opaque in require/typed wroked
15:04 Cryovat: *worked
15:04 (join) RacketCommitBot
15:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/eGOXIA
15:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust the drracket language test suite for the new error messages - Robby Findler
15:04 (part) RacketCommitBot
15:17 (quit) dented42: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
15:18 tewk: raco make dplaces.scrbl
15:18 tewk: scribble --pdf ++style style.tex ++xref-in setup/xref load-collections-xref dplaces.scrbl
15:18 tewk: date: expected argument of type <exact integer>; given: #f
15:18 tewk: context:
15:18 tewk: /home/tewk/srcs/plt/collects/scriblib/autobib.rkt:308:0: make-bib13
15:18 tewk: /home/tewk/drp/bib.rkt: [running body]
15:18 tewk: /home/tewk/drp/common.rkt: [traversing imports]
15:18 tewk: /home/tewk/drp/dplaces.scrbl: [traversing imports]
15:18 tewk: /home/tewk/srcs/plt/collects/scribble/../racket/private/map.rkt:26:19: loop
15:18 tewk: I just updated racket and now my bib.rkt file won't build.
15:21 (join) RacketCommitBot
15:21 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/mNr6bA
15:21 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] assignment operators cooperate with the dot operator - Jon Rafkind
15:21 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] support for-syntax in require - Jon Rafkind
15:21 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] add simple syntax-parse form. add syntax-class for delaying parsing - Jon Rafkind
15:21 (part) RacketCommitBot
15:22 (quit) em: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
15:22 stamourv: tewk: How long ago did it last work?
15:22 stamourv: ianj changed the bibliography generation a couple of months (I think) ago.
15:23 stamourv: I broke a couple of things for me, but I've fixed them since.
15:25 tewk: stamourv: Yeah I think its been a couple of months since I build my non-dev build of racket
15:26 tewk: So I have a bib entry that probably doesnt have a date, but it doesn't tell which line to look on.
15:31 (join) yoklov
15:40 Cryovat: ....wha
15:40 Cryovat: All of a sudden, the Racket startup logo is a turtle :|
15:44 stamourv: Cryovat: We like to keep users on their toes. ;)
15:52 bremner: is this a known crash on drracket startup? http://paste.debian.net/173993/
15:55 (join) dented42
15:57 jonrafkind: yea, its the broken easter egg
15:57 bremner: today?
15:57 jonrafkind: yea
15:58 bremner: grr
15:58 bremner: ;)
15:58 jonrafkind: 5.2.1 was updated with the fix i think
15:59 bremner: hmm. I have to double check the version with the reporter. I _thought_ it was 5.2.1
15:59 tewk: ;; Common usage of autobib has assumed that this should be the year.
16:00 tewk: just found that comment, bad assumption
16:00 jonrafkind: bremner, the original 5.2.1 was broken, and then it was updated with a fix
16:00 jonrafkind: so the fixed version is also 5.2.1
16:01 bremner dies a little inside. Again.
16:02 bremner: I think at the time I thought the easter egg breakage was just on that one day. But every birthday the original 5.2.1 will be broken?
16:07 jonrafkind: well i dunno about every birthday, this one is about some hawaiian holiday or something
16:08 bremner: yeah, but this was going to be the version in the next debian stable. Yay for 3 more years of crashes.
16:09 (quit) jesyspa: Read error: Connection reset by peer
16:09 bremner: I guess jamessan and I should try to fix that.
16:10 stamourv: bremner: I believe this easter egg actually shows up twice a year.
16:10 stamourv: Prince Kuhio day, and King Kamehameha day.
16:12 danking: Is one of the Racket devs Hawai'ian?
16:12 Cryovat: The latter sounds more like a Dragonball reference
16:12 danking: Perhaps all of dragonball was a reference to Hawai'i.
16:13 (join) jesyspa
16:15 bremner: anyone remember if the commit after the tag v5.2.1  on branch stable is contained in the new 5.2.1 tarballs?
16:19 bremner: ah, now I understand past me. 5.3 was supposed to be released before the easter egg came back
16:25 (join) bitonic
16:33 (quit) kanak: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
16:35 (join) Kaylin
16:36 (quit) Kaylin: Client Quit
16:36 (join) __rahul__
16:37 Cryovat: FFI question:
16:37 (quit) Nisstyre: Quit: Leaving
16:37 Cryovat: Is calling a c function significanly slower than a Racket one?
16:38 (quit) Ipsq: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
16:41 (quit) antithesis: Quit: antithesis
16:49 (join) rbarraud_
16:59 danking: Is there a way to set prop:procedure for hashes?
17:00 asumu: danking: Not unless you wrap it in another struct, I think.
17:00 asumu: Why?
17:01 danking: asumu: It looks more like the math that I wrote down. After all, hash table is just a function.
17:02 asumu: danking: if you really really wanted to, you could implement your own dictionary type that has a prop:procedure (and just wraps a hashtable) but you probably don't want to do that.
17:02 danking: I really would rather not.
17:02 asumu: (though not too hard if you're on a pre-release with generics)
17:03 jonrafkind: well generics are in stable too
17:05 (quit) hash_table: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
17:05 (quit) jonathansizz: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
17:05 (quit) getpwnam: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
17:05 (quit) __rahul__: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
17:07 stamourv: asumu++
17:07 stamourv: jonrafkind: Yes, but in a very different shape.
17:08 jonrafkind: it seemed like the api was just slightly different but otherwise semantically pretty close
17:08 stamourv: Right, but you can't just use code that uses the old version with the new one.
17:08 stamourv: You need to port.
17:09 jonrafkind: right.. as i so wonderfully found out. in fact i never got my code to work with the new version
17:09 jonrafkind: hooray for progress
17:11 stamourv: 1- It was in unstable. Unstable APIs can change. It even says so in the docs.
17:11 stamourv: 2- (IMO) The new version is much nicer.
17:12 (quit) mceier: Quit: leaving
17:29 (join) RacketCommitBot
17:29 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/NJi6YA
17:29 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix docs for impersonate/chaperone-box - Asumu Takikawa
17:29 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix typo in TR special form docs - Asumu Takikawa
17:29 (part) RacketCommitBot
17:38 (quit) adu: Quit: Page closed
17:53 (quit) dented42: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
17:53 (join) jrslepak
17:58 Blkt``: good night everyone
17:58 (quit) Blkt``: Read error: Connection reset by peer
18:01 (join) getpwnam
18:01 (join) jonathansizz
18:02 (join) hash_table
18:03 (quit) rbarraud_: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
18:04 (join) RacketCommitBot
18:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/PBk2og
18:04 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] another *SL error-message repair - Matthew Flatt
18:04 (part) RacketCommitBot
18:14 (quit) jacius: Remote host closed the connection
18:21 (quit) gabot: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
18:29 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org -- logs at http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs/
18:29 (names) -: gabot rapacity_ acarrico1 rotty mye_ hash_table jonathansizz getpwnam jrslepak bitonic jesyspa yoklov server_failure jonrafkind netrino dspt mithos28 jao Shviller cdidd PfhorSlayer BeLucid_ tim-brown masm stchang Demosthenes noam lusory ashish bremner Shvillr jrslepak_neu surrounder ssbr_ basepi cataska_ ozzloy antono maahes chandler errstr rudybot otterdam sizz_ ivan` hyko- Shambles_ tauntaun Haffe karswell spanner_ DraX ivan\ SHODAN asumu ChibaPet
18:29 (names) -: mario-goulart friscosam @ChanServ gf3 tewk igibson jamessan Cryovat epsil eMBee sethalves m4burns danking stamourv bartbes dsantiago anonus offby1 eli
18:29 (quit) Shvillr: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
18:30 (quit) jonrafkind: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
18:30 (join) Shvillr
18:31 (join) cky
18:34 (quit) jesyspa: Read error: Operation timed out
18:41 (quit) cdidd: Remote host closed the connection
18:43 (nick) rapacity_ -> rapacity
18:43 (join) jonrafkind
18:43 (quit) jonrafkind: Changing host
18:43 (join) jonrafkind
18:56 (quit) maahes: Read error: Connection reset by peer
19:30 Shambles_: There isn't any pre-cooked asynch I/O stuff in Racket now, right?  Nothing like I/O Completion Ports?
19:33 (join) PfhatWork
19:37 asumu: Shambles_: What's an I/O completion port?
19:39 Shambles_: asumu: Basically you tell the OS that you want to read a bunch of files (can be as many as you want).  It starts loading them into the memory you provide.  You can ask it how far it's gotten on each one.  It won't tell you when it finishes any.  The idea is to allow you to keep doing computations while the files are loading.  There's asynchronous networking too.
19:40 Shambles_: asumu: The advantage to the OS is it can do things like figure out what requires the least head movement to read all the files.  That only helps if it's built into the OS though.  The only advantage you can depend on is having computations completely separate from file/network I/O.  No blocking on those, ever.
19:41 asumu: Shambles_: events and sync/timeout might handle these in Racket.
19:42 asumu: I don't know if you can do exactly what a completion port does though.
19:42 Shambles_: asumu: I remember that for the networking discussion earlier (working like select).  I take it there's nothing like the big queryable queue of loading files built in, though, right?
19:43 Shambles_: asumu: I'd like to have such a thing around.  If there's not one already I don't think it'd be too hard to build with what I've seen of the multithreading support.
19:43 Shambles_: asumu: Was thinking of making my own, if necessary.
19:44 asumu: I doubt it's built-in, but you could probably write it.
19:45 Shambles_: asumu: Okay.  I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reinventing the wheel.
19:45 (quit) netrino: Quit: Ave!
19:49 (join) dented42
19:55 (quit) jonrafkind: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
19:55 (quit) bitonic: Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7
20:00 Shambles_: Hmm.  There's no event that runs when a directory is modified, like fcntl() on Linux?
20:01 (join) Kaylin
20:06 (join) dnolen
20:09 (quit) masm: Quit: Leaving.
20:14 (quit) stchang: Read error: Operation timed out
20:17 (join) stchang
20:18 (join) em
20:38 (quit) yoklov: Quit: bye!
20:49 (join) drumond19
21:00 (join) adu
21:09 (join) RacketCommitBot
21:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/e8CJAw
21:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Check for proxied prompt tags when needed - Asumu Takikawa
21:09 (part) RacketCommitBot
21:10 sizz_: I noticed the easter egg bug today. I fixed it with the patch, but note that the ubuntu ppa has the unfixed version. perhaps this could be replaced with the patched version from the website?
21:12 asumu: sizz_: I noticed that jonrafkind uploaded a new version of the package 56 minutes ago.
21:13 asumu: Did you use a version older than that?
21:13 asumu: (of the Ubuntu PPA that is)
21:13 sizz_: yes
21:14 sizz_: i'm glad it's fixed; just wanted to let you know
21:14 asumu: Thanks anyway. :)
21:14 sizz_: nice turtle though!
21:15 asumu: Yeah, it's the honu turtle.
21:16 asumu: Which I guess is the logo of #lang honu.
21:26 (join) duomo
21:29 (quit) dnolen: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
21:49 (join) neilv
22:06 (join) jeapostrophe
22:06 (quit) jeapostrophe: Changing host
22:06 (join) jeapostrophe
22:10 (join) jacius
22:14 (quit) jonathansizz: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
22:14 (quit) hash_table: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
22:14 (quit) getpwnam: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
22:18 (join) __rahul__
22:20 neilv: we should repurpose seti@home to run scribble. this is the most compute-intensive thing i do
22:21 (quit) dented42: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
22:26 (quit) jeapostrophe: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
22:26 asumu: neilv: getting a 4-core machine was so beneficial to my productivity since I build Racket...
22:26 asumu: (and yeah, the docs still take some time)
22:27 neilv: are you still cpu-bound with 4 cores, not yet disk-bound?
22:28 asumu: samth has a more powerful machine than I do, and he was saying the limitation is the dependency graph of the collections.
22:28 asumu: (for paralellism)
22:29 asumu: *parallelism
22:29 neilv: so you're not using all 4 cores?
22:29 neilv: i use both of mine
22:30 asumu: I tend to use all of them when building docs, I think.
22:30 (join) mmalorni
22:30 neilv: anyway, scribble does a lot of stuff. i suspect it could do it faster, but if i had to choose one or the other, i'd pick functionality over speed
22:33 (join) veer
22:55 (join) jonrafkind
22:55 Shambles_: I have to admit Scribble is really neat.  I've never seen cross-platform documentation done this way.  The next best thing is stuff like EMACS apropos, but that doesn't have nice markup.
23:03 neilv: a lot of things in racket have a surprising amount of work put into them
23:03 neilv: i'm guessing around 100 person-years of smart people
23:04 (quit) adu: Quit: adu
23:04 asumu: Shambles_: if you haven't seen it yet, this is a great talk on Scribble: http://vimeo.com/6630691
23:05 jonrafkind: ah ubuntu quantal has 5.2.1
23:08 asumu: jonrafkind: as in the next version of Ubuntu will include it in universe or whatever it's called?
23:08 jonrafkind: yea
23:08 jonrafkind: i think
23:08 asumu: Awesome.
23:13 bremner: jonrafkind: mumble mumble probably still the broken version of 5.2.1
23:13 jonrafkind: dont worry, its only 3 more years until debian gets another update!
23:14 jonrafkind: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/quantal/+source/racket/5.2.1+dfsg1-5
23:14 neilv: make both && time sudo make install-both
23:14 jonrafkind: made may 2012, so in theory it might be fixed
23:14 neilv: user  46m53.580s
23:14 neilv: 45 minutes to format the racket manuals on dual-core
23:14 neilv: that's with lots of ram and no swap
23:15 jamessan: jonrafkind: it's not, since we didn't have the patches applied
23:15 jonrafkind: can you update it?
23:15 jamessan: bremner's working on an update, which will filter over to ubuntu when they do another sync
23:15 (quit) mmalorni: Ping timeout: 256 seconds
23:16 bremner: jamessan: jonrafkind: fwiw, I have the updated version ready to upload, probably tommorow.
23:16 neilv: er, my number might include compiling some racket code, but if so, that's the minority of the time
23:22 (quit) Kaylin: Quit: Leaving.
23:50 Shambles_: asumu: Where do these kinds of talks tend to be given?
23:51 (join) adu
23:51 Shambles_: asumu: Someone mentioned a RacketCon?
23:51 (quit) __rahul__: Quit: Leaving
23:56 asumu: Shambles_: Many at academic conferences. That one was at ICFP 2009. For Racket specifically, there was RacketCon last year.
23:56 asumu: Unfortunately no videos of that so far.
23:56 asumu: Hopefully there will be one again later this summer.
23:57 Shambles_: asumu: Are there many people at RacketCon?  And are they all basically professors, or do random people show up?
23:57 asumu: Last time many non-academics showed up. Programmers from industry and people who use Racket to teach.
23:58 mithos28: I plan on going, and I am just a random user of racket.