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00:30 neilv: ok, now, unless you use the --verbose / -v argument, mcfly only prints messages when it changes something you know about, such as editing info.rkt or changing planet links. http://paste.lisp.org/display/129939
00:30 neilv: only the "raco mcfly:" lines are from mcfly. it's "raco setup" and "make-planet-archive" that are chatty
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12:55 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/FCW8DA
12:55 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] guard the repositories warning - Robby Findler
12:55 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] export signatures from module-browser.rkt; also Rackety - Robby Findler
12:55 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] added the #:draw-border? argument to disk and filled-ellipse - Robby Findler
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14:52 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ZSoBLg
14:52 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] shrink the dependencies from racket/runtime-path (remove mzscheme - Robby Findler
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15:09 Shambles_: Can anyone recommend an example of some package that is both pretty digestible (read "short", and doesn't get very 'cute' with language features), and includes most parts most Racket programs should (e.g. documentation that gets added when installed, PLaneT specification)?  Extra points if it includes syntax-parse macros.
15:11 mithos28: Maybe try dyoo's bf package
15:11 mithos28: http://planet.racket-lang.org/display.ss?package=bf.plt&owner=dyoo
15:11 Cryovat: http://planet.racket-lang.org/display.ss?package=gl2d.plt&owner=jaymccarthy
15:11 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/76urcza
15:11 Cryovat: This one is pretty brief
15:12 mithos28: It does the documentation wrong though, no linking
15:13 mithos28: danny's has bad links though, so it is a wash
15:14 mithos28: bf is meant to be a tutorial on writing a language
15:14 mithos28: so it goes through a lot of the steps on what you should do to put a package on planet
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15:26 Shambles_: This should probably be embarrassing, but I'm not entirely sure what you two mean.  It looks like the gl2d package uses HTML for documentation, which I think is non-standard, so maybe that was what was meant.  I can't see anything wrong with the bf package.
15:27 mithos28: No they both use scribble, which is standard
15:27 mithos28: just that jay didn't do the cross linking correctly, (at least on the web version)
15:27 mithos28: so all the links are all underlined in red
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15:32 Shambles_: Are the HTML files I see actually the output of the .scrbl code?
15:32 Cryovat: Yeah
15:34 Shambles_: Is there some provision on PLaneT for testing the ability to package something?  Like if I'd like to see if I can get it to work, without littering the place with packages that don't actually do anything useful.
15:34 Shambles_: I know there are some requirements for how you have to structure and document things, and I'd like to get into good habits early.
15:35 Cryovat: You do a local installation first, so to speak
15:35 Cryovat: You can use the raco (or was it planet?) command line tool to install/build a Planet package from your local disc
15:38 (quit) antithesis: Quit: antithesis
15:39 Shambles_: I'm trying to find the documentation for that.  The closest thing I can see is this: http://docs.racket-lang.org/raco/_plt-archives.html?q=planet#%28def._%28%28lib._setup/plt-single-installer..rkt%29._install-planet-package%29%29
15:39 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7vqz3l4
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15:39 mithos28: http://docs.racket-lang.org/planet/cmdline.html?q=raco&q=planet
15:44 sizz_: Why does this function give the number of elements in the list, rather than the number of *symbols*?
15:44 Shambles_: So I'd use the create option to make the .plt file, and the fileinject option to install it locally, and (assuming I don't screw up) it should update the documentation and everything, just like a real PLaneT package?
15:45 mithos28: sizz_: what function?
15:45 sizz_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129951
15:45 sizz_: sorry, didn't go through automatically
15:45 Cryovat: Yeah Shambles_
15:45 Shambles_: Okay.  Thanks. :)
15:46 mithos28: sizz_: Do you have a test case where it doesn't give you the expected answer?
15:47 sizz_: (how-many-symbols (list 'one 'two 'three 99))
15:47 offby1: sure looks reasonable
15:47 sizz_: ^ gives 4
15:49 mithos28: sizz_: your cond case for the symbol? check is missing a set of parenthesis
15:50 sizz_: ah-ha
15:50 sizz_: thanks
15:50 mithos28: are you learning racket? If so I would recommend using the teaching languages, they will catch errors like that
15:52 sizz_: it's an example from 1st edition HtDP, but they didn't check for a symbol so I added that part myself. I'm using 'determine language from source', but I guess I should switch to the teaching language
15:53 (part) jschuster
15:53 mithos28: Yes, especially if you are following HtDP. The error messages are better, and many of the more obscure parts of the language are removed making unintentional things harder to do
15:53 offby1: sizz_: just so you know -- nobody would actually write that in practice
15:55 offby1: https://gist.github.com/2907127 e.g.
15:57 sizz_: offby1: okay, but we haven't got to 'for' yet .. I realise that I'm doing things the hard way for the purposes of learning
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15:59 sizz_: cond: expected a clause with a question and an answer, but found a clause with 3 parts
15:59 sizz_: ^ using 'advanced student'
15:59 sizz_: excellent!
15:59 mithos28: sizz_:Yep that was the improved error message I was mentioning
15:59 sizz_: yes
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16:11 sizz_: but why doesn't #lang racket have those error messages? wouldn't they be useful for everyone (e.g. missing a pair of parens)?
16:13 mithos28: sizz_: because in #lang racket having multiple statements in the body of the clause is fine
16:13 mithos28: for side effects and definitions
16:13 (part) rsimoes
16:14 mithos28: rudybot: (:print-type list)
16:14 rudybot: mithos28: ; stdout: "(All (a) (a * -> (Listof a)))\n"
16:19 mithos28: does syntax-parse have an option for a clause to fail late like match does with (=> id)
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16:22 getpwnam: Where can I browse primitive Racket function definitions online?
16:22 mithos28: getpwnam: docs.racket-lang.org
16:23 mithos28: getpwnam: or did you really want the implementation of those primitives, as in the C code?
16:24 getpwnam: no, I want the actual definition of primitive functions e.g. 'list', 'cons' etc. so I can see how they are built
16:24 getpwnam: not just how to use them
16:26 mithos28: getpwnam: https://github.com/plt/racket/blob/master/src/racket/src/list.c#L1167
16:26 mithos28: Be prepared to learn lots of nasty macros
16:27 Cryovat: I like how the c code resembles Racket code ;)
16:28 getpwnam: thanks
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16:30 getpwnam: how the sausages are made..
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17:05 asumu: There's also a guide for the C internals: http://docs.racket-lang.org/inside/index.html
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17:31 jorick: I have a file that contains a function which is used by an always-on racket process. Is it possible to reload that file (or that function) from disk without having to restart the entire process? I'm playing around with dynamic-require but it doesn't seem to reload the file.
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17:42 jorick: I've got something that works now, but it's kind of ugly. Currently I define the word in the first file, then include the second file which uses set! to update the value. If I detect fs changes to the file, it is included again (causing the set! to trigger again with the new value).
17:43 offby1: jorick: rudybot has some code for that, but it hasn't worked in a while and I've never figured out why not
17:45 jorick: My current system works, but it just doesn't seem to be the way to go about it. I want to have a folder of plugins which I can just update as much as I want without having to restart the app and reconnect the client etc...
17:46 mithos28: You should look into namespaces and module registries
17:46 jorick: I could go on like this, perhaps using a central hashtable to store all the definitions and using some macros to keep the thing a bit prettier but it still feels wonky
17:50 Cryovat: This C internals link is interesting reading
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18:12 offby1: jorick: rudybot's "way" (despite it not working at the moment) is probably pretty good, given that eli wrote it.
18:12 jorick: who's eli?
18:13 Cryovat points at eli
18:13 Cryovat: That guy over there
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18:17 offby1: no stupid; you're pointing to the wrong guy.  It's HIM
18:17 offby1 points over THERE
18:17 offby1: jorick: eli is one of the PLT developers.
18:20 jorick: aha; the reloadable seems excactly what I need.
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18:21 eli: jorick: I have a much improved version of that in my irc bot, where a directory of modules is rescanned, and a new file gets reloaded and can replace handlers made by the previous version of that file.
18:22 eli: (I should make it more public, but never had time to go over the little specific corners that I use...)
18:26 jorick: I want to include a system like this into a CMS where all non-core functionality resides in plugins (possibly using units and signatures).
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19:08 Cryovat: Hmm
19:09 Cryovat: I didn't realize Racket supported infix operators
19:09 Cryovat: That's.... kinky
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22:00 offby1: it doesn't really; it just lets you use sexps with (foo bar . baz . ugh) to rewrite to (baz foo bar ugh)
22:02 neilv: i cringe when i see people using (X . -> . Y) in examples, as if this is not ugly and reinforcing the objections people have to sexp syntax
22:03 neilv: but at least it's nice and big and ugly, so it gets your attention when you're reading code and assuming prefix syntax
22:06 offby1: I confess to using that style in contracts.
22:06 offby1: without it, it's hard to see where the inputs end and the return value(s) begin(s).
22:08 neilv: i think the contract combinator was a little miserly with its parens
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22:37 neilv: > Oops! An internal error occured. The problem has been logged, but if you have any further information to report, please email planet@racket-lang.org.
22:37 mithos28: what did you do?
22:38 mithos28: at least the error wasn't illegal, so you are safe from the cops
22:38 neilv: what did i do? sounds like blaming the victim
22:39 mithos28: victim? It looks like you broke (Dr)Racket.
22:39 neilv: i have a partially ordered list of 7 packages to push out tonight
22:40 neilv: built with mcfly. which i fear is the cause of the problem
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22:43 offby1: have you subtly worked the number "88" into mcfly?
22:43 offby1: You're required to by Federal law, you know
22:43 offby1: also 1.2 x 10^9
22:43 adu: or GW
22:43 neilv: "raco mcfly marty" is an easter egg
22:44 mithos28: I hate TR's special casing
22:44 adu: TR=TypedRacket?
22:44 mithos28: yeah
22:44 offby1: Teddy Roosevelt?
22:44 adu: Time tRavel?
22:45 mithos28: rudybot: (define v vector)
22:45 rudybot: mithos28: Done.
22:45 mithos28: rudybot: (vector 1 2 3)
22:45 rudybot: mithos28: ; Value: #(1 2 3)
22:45 rudybot: mithos28: ; stdout: "- : (Vector Integer Integer Integer)\n"
22:45 adu: rudybot: (v 1 2 3)
22:45 rudybot: adu: your sandbox is ready
22:45 rudybot: adu: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: v in module: 'program
22:45 mithos28: rudybot: (v 1 2 3)
22:45 rudybot: mithos28: ; Value: #(1 2 3)
22:45 rudybot: mithos28: ; stdout: "- : (Vectorof Integer)\n"
22:45 mithos28: adu: it is per preson
22:47 offby1: I could have tole you that!
22:47 offby1: rudybot: (vector 1 2 3)
22:47 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
22:47 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: #(1 2 3)
22:47 offby1 rubs chin
22:47 offby1: different language I guess
22:48 mithos28: Yeah I'm in TR
22:48 offby1: how'd you init it?
22:48 mithos28: (require typed/racket)
22:48 offby1: rudybot: init typed/racket
22:48 rudybot: *offby1: your typed/racket sandbox is ready
22:48 offby1: rudybot: (vector 1 2 3)
22:48 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: #(1 2 3)
22:48 rudybot: *offby1: ; stdout: "- : (Vector Integer Integer Integer)\n"
22:48 offby1: who knew?
22:49 offby1: *rudybot: ; stdout: "- : (Cheeseburger Cheeseburger Cheeseburger No Coke Pepsi)\n"
23:03 neilv: probably 11pm on a sunday night is not the best time to be asking a volunteer to look at a problem on a server that's probably user's fault
23:03 mithos28: well since it is still 8, you have three hours
23:04 adu: neilv: server problem?
23:04 neilv: fortunately, the emacs mode for .plt files that i wrote many years ago still works
23:07 offby1: unhexify! untar!
23:08 neilv: i don't suppose that having unofficial bindings in the info.rkt coudl be the problem
23:09 neilv: another difference: a good .plt for the html-template package has a file: (same "planet-docs" "html-template" "index.html") but my bad package has "doc" in there rather than the name of the package: (same "planet-docs" "doc" "index.html")
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23:10 offby1: *shrug*
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23:10 neilv: nope, looks like that's not it
23:11 offby1: it'd be bitterly ironic if the "mcfly" package couldn't talk about "doc"
23:13 neilv: uh oh. it has a dependency on overeasy
23:13 neilv: which should still work, but i didn't mean to leave that in
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23:26 veer: anyone having problem starting drracket today ?
23:27 eli: neilv: it's popular with names that have a direction like `->' and `>' where there's just no way to correlate how the code is written with how you talk about it.
23:27 eli: For example, `+' can be fine if you read (+ blah blah) as "add blah and blah", but I cringe whenever I go over code with students and I say "smaller-than x 5".
23:29 jonrafkind: uh oh.. another broken easter egg?
23:29 mithos28: veer
23:29 mithos28: ;
23:30 mithos28: are you still on sunday?
23:30 veer: its monday here 9.00 AM
23:30 neilv: eli: i had to do a double-take when i use the < or > too. i wonder whether that's linguistic/cognitive
23:31 mithos28: Its a special day, but starts fine for me
23:31 mithos28: when I change my clock that is
23:31 neilv: well, wireshark thinks that the entire .plt file was sent in the http post
23:32 veer: oh well , may be I'll use emacs , or take day off :)
23:32 mithos28: veer: what version are you using?
23:32 veer: 5.2.1
23:32 neilv: eli: who administers the planet server? i am getting an internal error message when i try to upload a package
23:34 eli: neilv: Not just linguistic -- "smaller than", like `<' is something that is infix by nature,
23:35 eli: the "smaller than x, 5" kind of passes if you read it as "apply the smaller-than function on x and 5", but that's a long stretch.
23:35 eli: neilv: And re the planet server, Robby is in charge of it, but it's hosted on a server that I manage.
23:35 eli: But I know almost nothing about doing planet stuff...
23:35 mithos28: veer: what version of 5.2.1? there was a bug on special days and there was a rerelease
23:36 neilv: this is probably a robby question, because the http, continuations, and db seem to be fine
23:36 mithos28: you should be able to redownload 5.2.1 and it should work
23:36 veer: mithos28:  all right I'll download again
23:37 eli: neilv: I can look into logs and files if that'll help but not much more than that.
23:37 eli: veer: That's the same bug that happened last time.
23:37 neilv: eli: thanks
23:37 eli: And since we fixed it and pushed a revised installer with the fix you should be fine if you'll re-download 5.2.1.
23:38 veer: eli: ok thanks
23:39 eli: veer: Can you tell me if/when you install it so I know that it fixed it?
23:44 veer: eli: new downloaded version works fine
23:44 eli: veer: Thanks.  We should post a warning message soon-ish about it.