00:03 yoklov: wow had no idea how redundant that macro i wrote above was -_-
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00:23 mithos28: Is there an 'freeze' a mutable hash into an immutable one? Or do I need to do the work myself? hash-copy seems to go the other way.
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00:41 asumu: yoklov: BTW you know about get-field/set-field right?
00:41 yoklov: i do now.
00:42 yoklov: haha
00:42 asumu: Oh, that's just what you meant by redundant? I see. :p
00:42 asumu: Well still good macro practice.
00:42 yoklov: yup
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05:44 andkerosine: (string-index "foobar" "b")
05:44 andkerosine: What is it that kept something like that out of the standard library?
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09:28 andkerosine: Anybody awake?
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09:40 asumu: rudybot: (require srfi/13)
09:40 rudybot: asumu: Done.
09:40 asumu: rudybot: (string-index "foobar" #\b)
09:40 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: 3
09:40 asumu: andkerosine: ^
09:41 andkerosine: Much obliged. : )
09:41 andkerosine: I don't suppose hash-invert is as easy, huh?
09:41 asumu: What would that do?
09:41 andkerosine: Keys become values, values become keys.
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09:44 Cryovat: Can't you just use hash-map for that?
09:44 asumu: rudybot: (for/hash ([p (in-dict-pairs '((a . 5) (b . 7)))]) (values (car p) (cdr p)))
09:44 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: #hash((b . 7) (a . 5))
09:45 asumu: rudybot: (for/hash ([p (in-dict-pairs '((a . 5) (b . 7)))]) (values (cdr p) (car p)))
09:45 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: #hash((5 . a) (7 . b))
09:45 asumu: That's how I'd do it.
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09:50 andkerosine: Works like a charm. Thanks again.
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10:37 andkerosine: asumu: Would you mind letting me know if I'm doing anything stupid here? https://gist.github.com/2731052
10:40 asumu: andkerosine: Looks like it'll work. Not the most efficient way to do it though, since you end up walking the list several times.
10:40 asumu: A plain old recursive solution would be better for that.
10:41 andkerosine: It does work, but yeah, still trying to fully wrap my head around proper recursion.
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12:28 Karlinde: There doesn't happen to be anyone here that has used gcr's package for OpenAL bindings from the planet?
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14:49 yoklov: i think did once but i didn't get them to work
14:51 yoklov: just out of curiosity, does anybody know how whalesong is in terms of performance?
15:08 yoklov: i've been writing in clojurescript lately, and i'm somewhat curious how a significantly more involved compilation process ends up impacting the end product
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15:15 mithos28: last time I heard whale song was 10-100x slower than racket
15:15 mithos28: but that was about a year ago
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15:25 yoklov: hm, well i think racket is faster than js
15:25 yoklov: which is the more relevant comparison i think
15:26 mithos28: shootout says they are comparable
15:26 mithos28: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=v8&lang2=racket
15:26 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/7dcfhe8
15:28 yoklov: hm, yeah, i guess that'd make sense then
15:31 andkerosine: Comparable? It looks like V8 destroys Racket? : /
15:31 mithos28: andkerosine: What makes you say that? The memory usage?
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15:33 andkerosine: Barring pidigits (because what the hell happened there?), V8's overall time is a good deal lower too.
15:33 mithos28: no
15:33 mithos28: half are faster half are slower
15:34 mithos28: look at k-nucleotide and reverse-complement
15:34 soegaard: mithos28: Whalesong is fast enough for this: http://hashcollision.org/whalesong/examples/raphael-demo/raphael-demo.html
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15:35 soegaard: I have used Whalesong to make a triangle solver, and I am quite pleased that I can write my programs in (close to) plain Racket and get it running in the browser.
15:36 mithos28: soegaard: That required about 50-70% of my cpu to run, and was still laggy at points
15:37 mithos28: I doubt that running under gracket it would do that
15:38 yoklov: and i doubt if it were handwritten JS it would lag at all
15:39 soegaard: The star-demo takes ~30% here. But the point is that, for standard projects with no moving graphics, it is fast enough.
15:39 soegaard: (no lag here, btw)
15:40 mithos28: soegaard: Yes, i believe that. My statement was just saying that you will pay a price from running it in Whalesong instead of racket.
15:40 yoklov: are racket and whalesong code compatible?
15:40 mithos28: my main gripe with Whalesong is that it still needs to be written in a sub language.
15:41 yoklov: like, 100%?
15:41 soegaard: Oh - the graphics demo uses RaphaelsJS (written in JS) to draw the graphics, so it might not be the best example, I chose.
15:41 mithos28: not exactly, dyoo was too busy graduating to implement of all of racket
15:41 mithos28: but it takes racket byte code and compiles it to js
15:42 soegaard: Well, for me the choice is not between Racket and Whalesong. For my I get to write standard web-pages without worriying about Javascript.
15:42 yoklov: yeah, the choice is would be between js and whalesong, as there are a lot of places you can run js and not racket
15:42 mithos28: I want to write racket, and then put it up on the web for showing off
15:43 mithos28: The issue is that racket/base requires a lot of primitives to work
15:43 mithos28: like custodians and such
15:44 yoklov: right, which don't make as much sense in JS as they do in racket
15:44 yoklov: or in racket bytecode i guess
15:44 soegaard: If you have particular primitives that you miss, then dyoo is normally very quick to implement them.
15:45 mithos28: soegaard: I want to write in racket/base or typed/racket and just have it work. I know dyoo was working on it, but development has been slow.
15:48 chandler: andkerosine: the pidigits test is actually a bignum benchmark. JavaScript doesn't have native bignum support, so it's all done in JS. Racket is using an optimized C implementation.
15:48 soegaard: Sure, there is lots of stuff left to do. However the system is already useful. I love being able to use sane binding constructs and macros.
15:48 andkerosine: chandler: Yeah, makes sense.
15:48 chandler: andkerosine: It's the same situation in reverse as regex-dna (V8 uses an optimized C regex matcher)
15:50 andkerosine: Is there any possibility of Oniguruma ever getting into Racket?
15:51 mithos28: as in replacing the standard regex library or as in bindings?
15:51 yoklov: andkerosine: probably only if you/someone implements it
15:51 Cryovat: I haven't used the native Regex in Racket so forgive me for asking
15:51 Cryovat: What's wrong with that one?
15:52 mithos28: Cryovat: the shootout was showing it was slow, not that I have ever heard of anyone complain about its speed
15:52 andkerosine: mithos28: Either, I suppose, the benefit comes either way. Alas, far beyond my abilities, yoklov.
15:52 andkerosine: It's definitely more than sufficient, but Oniguruma strikes me as, practically objectively, the optimal engine.
15:52 chandler: anyway, pidigits and regex-dna are probably the least interesting shootout benchmarks, in that you're either comparing apples and oranges (JS bignums versus optimized C implementations) or two things that aren't language specific (V8's irregexp versus Racket's C implementation of regexps)
15:52 yoklov: andkerosine: same, but i've never seen the need, to be honest
15:53 mithos28: andkerosine: bindings are very easy to do
15:53 yoklov: or at least, i've never been upset with rackets current regex engine
15:53 mithos28: once you understand the ffi, it is mostly rote work in writing the wrappers
15:53 yoklov: honestly i'd prefer new regexp reader syntax vs a new regex backend
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15:56 mithos28: andkerosine: What is the great feature of onigururma?
15:56 andkerosine: It's insanely fast and covers practically everything.
15:56 andkerosine: I admit, I haven't looked too deeply into the specifics of Racket's engine, though.
15:56 mithos28: is it used in ruby 1.9?
15:56 andkerosine: Indeed.
15:57 andkerosine: Understands the entire Unicode spec, if I'm not mistaken.
15:57 mithos28: the shootout is showing it is only slightly faster than the racket engine
15:57 Cryovat: Heh
15:57 mithos28: by that you mean that char groups work correctly on unicode characters?
15:57 Cryovat: Regex seems to be one of the only benchmarks that Ruby actually does well in
15:58 andkerosine: Ruby's hashing is pretty efficient, too.
15:59 soegaard: Racket's regexp engine is written in C. Originally by Henry Spencer. Perl's engine is also based on Spencer's code. Whether Racket started from Perl's and modified that, tor started with Spencer's regex I don't know.
16:00 andkerosine: mithos28: http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/Regexp.html
16:00 andkerosine: Character Properties, in particular.
16:00 mithos28: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/regexp.html?
16:00 mithos28: unicode categories
16:01 mithos28: I think those are the same.
16:05 andkerosine: Huh. So it seems.
16:10 yoklov: do racket's support named capture groups?
16:11 mithos28: are those different from the standard numbered capture groups?
16:12 yoklov: yeah
16:12 yoklov: you can give them a name
16:12 yoklov: and then look it up by name later
16:12 mithos28: not that I know of
16:12 yoklov: i think onigururma does
16:12 yoklov: but i don't know
16:13 yoklov: i never do anything complicated with regexs so i don't really care
16:13 yoklov: but it could be a beneficial feature for someone
16:13 mithos28: their documentation has it, but it is a broken link
16:13 Cryovat: I get my paycheck writing .NET code, the framework has named capture groups
16:14 Cryovat: I rather prefer them to numbered ones, because of the readability
16:14 mithos28: what are you using complicated regexps for?
16:14 Cryovat: match["id"] is much clearer than match[3]
16:15 bremner: readability is against the spirit of regexps
16:15 mithos28: why not output the data in a structured format to begin with instead of a string?
16:17 Cryovat: That only works when you control the outputting part
16:18 mithos28: True, but that is what feature requests are for
16:19 Cryovat: My coworker had to write stuff that integrated with bank systems
16:19 Cryovat: Hearing about that was just depressing
16:20 Cryovat: You'd think that the systems that handle invoice generating and suchlikes would use SOAP or something like that
16:21 Cryovat: But turns out that here (Norway), it's still based on some fixed-column 8 bit non-ASCII text format defined in 1991
16:21 andkerosine: bremner: I like the way you think. : )
16:29 andkerosine: Out of curiosity, anybody else use something akin to rainbow parens?
16:30 offby1: *crickets*
16:30 andkerosine: I... what, why not?
16:30 andkerosine: Also, gsub returns nil if no replacement was made. : )
16:30 andkerosine: gsub!, rather.
16:34 mithos28: I asked this last night but got no response, is there a way to use raco make and errortrace together?
16:35 offby1: andkerosine: sounds like a question for #ruby
16:35 andkerosine: I was referring to your gist.
16:37 offby1 hasn't pasted a gist in a while
16:38 offby1: let's see
16:38 offby1: ah
16:38 offby1: I forget the original question, but neither I nor one or two other folks on #ruby could reproduce what the questioner was asking, so ...
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16:43 andkerosine: 'whatever'.gsub(/foo/, '') # => 'whatever'
16:43 andkerosine: 'whatever'.gsub!(/bill/, '') # => nil
16:45 offby1: makes sense.
16:46 offby1: In my mind, functions that mutate their arguments should always return nil (or equivalent) just to remind you that they're side-effect-y.
16:46 andkerosine: Absolutely.
16:47 andkerosine: I love the semantic brevity of !.
16:47 andkerosine: So, was "*crickets*" meant to imply that everybody here is sane enough to use rainbow parens, or?
16:49 bremner: I don't know what it is, so I'm guessing I don't use it.
16:49 andkerosine: http://i.imgur.com/zNyDd.png
16:50 bremner: hmm. looks a bit noisy at first glance.
16:50 Cryovat: I like the theme
16:50 andkerosine: Tomorrow Night.
16:50 nilyaK: it's awesome unless you're color blind, then it's less awesome.
16:50 andkerosine: nilyaK: I'm sure you could adjust the colors for contrast?
16:51 nilyaK: prob
16:51 andkerosine: bremner: Surely not as noisy as all the same color?
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16:51 bremner: umm, more so to my untrained eye
16:51 andkerosine: Sounds like some new form of Stockholm Syndrome. : P
16:52 mithos28: I don't use it, I tried it and wasn't that great for me
16:52 bremner: who can say. I hear some people like vim
16:52 Cryovat: Am I the only one who uses DrRacket? :P
16:52 andkerosine: Vim's featurefulness is amazing, but it just doesn't flow for me for some reason; I use Sublime.
16:52 mithos28: Cryovat: DrRacket is bloated
16:53 andkerosine: Very slow on Ubuntu 12, too.
16:53 Cryovat: I feel a tiny bit of lag on longer files
16:53 mithos28: I am fine with it on a desktop, but on my laptop I don't have enough ram
16:53 bremner: slower than the previous release of Ubuntu?
16:53 Cryovat: But haven't had a problem with it yet
16:54 Cryovat: andkerosine: You use Sublime for Racket?
16:54 andkerosine: I do.
16:54 andkerosine: bremner: Sorry, couldn't say. Brand new Schemer.
16:54 Cryovat: You don't get a REPL there, do you?
16:54 andkerosine: You do. : )
16:54 andkerosine: https://github.com/wuub/SublimeREPL
16:54 Cryovat: Hmmm
16:54 Cryovat: That's pretty interesting
16:55 Cryovat: Does things like (read-line) work?
16:55 andkerosine: They do. : )
16:56 Cryovat: I might jush have to look into it
16:56 andkerosine: ST2 is pretty incredible.
16:56 andkerosine: Something about Vim's "barrenness" distracts me for some reason.
16:57 Cryovat: I never got into it
16:57 Cryovat: I tried a couple of times
16:57 andkerosine: The speed improvement seems negligible to me, but Sublime has "Vintage mode" that allows you to use many of its shortcuts, just in case.
16:57 Cryovat: I meant vim above, btw
16:57 andkerosine: Gathered.
16:57 Cryovat: For a text editor, I want something that basically works like nano/Notepad out of the box
16:58 andkerosine: That'd be Sublime. : )
16:58 andkerosine: Except that you get a massive set of features, too.
16:58 Cryovat: I've been using Notepad++ a lot, but considering making a move to Mint
16:58 Cryovat: Sublime seems to be a very attractive option then
16:59 andkerosine: I could go on and on...
16:59 Cryovat: Apart from Gedit, I haven't found any text editors on Linux that has felt right for me
16:59 bremner is a free software bigot, so not really interested in investing in learning a non-free editor.
16:59 yoklov: andkerosine: that can do syntax highlighting for scheme?
16:59 Cryovat: I tend to take a pragmatic approach to software licenses
16:59 bremner: me too
17:00 andkerosine: It's highly unlikely John'll ever remove the trial version.
17:00 bremner: but "pragmatic over the next decade"
17:00 Cryovat: Free software is nice, but in many cases, commercial things just save you more time
17:00 andkerosine: ^
17:00 bremner: yeah, well this isn't really the place for that discussion
17:00 bremner: even though I started it ;)
17:00 andkerosine: yoklov: It can highlight a vast majority of languages out of the box, but adding new ones is trivial.
17:00 Cryovat: Hehe
17:01 Cryovat: It's like discussing software licenses
17:01 Cryovat: It never ends, it just keeps on until someone gets fed up
17:01 yoklov: andkerosine: right, i use it at work for coldfusion (blech), but i couldn't ever find a scheme mode
17:01 andkerosine: It uses the exact same structure as TextMate, so anything that's been made for that editor will work in Sublime.
17:01 yoklov: though, i use drracket for its other benefits, and if i didn't i'd use emacs.
17:01 yoklov: but still, i could have sworn it had no scheme syntax support
17:02 andkerosine: The default Lisp highlighting is pitiful, but https://github.com/textmate/scheme.tmbundle fixes that.
17:03 yoklov: still, i've found doing anything involving racket/gui to be somewhat annoying to do outside of drracket
17:03 yoklov: but
17:03 yoklov: i had no idea that existed
17:03 andkerosine: It's... kind of overwhelming how configurable it is.
17:04 andkerosine: But, yeah, anything requiring a new window will spawn outside of the editor, which is a little unfortunate.
17:04 yoklov: andkerosine: still isn't as configurable as emacs :p
17:05 andkerosine: Impossible. : )
17:05 andkerosine: For no programming language is as configurable as Lisp.
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17:05 andkerosine: dyoo's writeup on how he implemented Brainfuck in Racket blew my mind.
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17:36 FareTower: Isn't CHIQRSX9+ is more configurable? You can put what you want in the X.
17:38 bremner looks blank
17:41 andkerosine: Almost seems like a joke?
17:42 bremner: probably just the wrong channel
17:45 andkerosine: Yeah, that makes a lot more sense...
17:50 yoklov: chiqrsx9+ is a joke esoteric language
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17:52 Cryovat: Haha
17:52 Cryovat: First programming language I've seen that includes a quine operator
17:52 yoklov: hq9+ is the inspiration for it, which also includes q
17:54 andkerosine: "Due to the best principles of object hiding, this object cannot be accessed in any way. "
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17:57 mithos28: has anyone played around with implementing a language with extensible bindings? I keep having to write (for ((v vs)) (match v (pattern body))) instead of (for ((pattern vs)) body), and this is annoying. But because of how macros don't work in binding position, I cannot extend for in the way I want.
17:59 yoklov: i think chiqrsx9+ could be turing-complete if x was the iota combinator (which inspired even more weird programming languages)
18:01 yoklov: (where iota is (lambda (f) ((f S) K)), and S and K are the S and K combinators)
18:02 yoklov has been known to implement esoteric programming languages as a hobby
18:03 Cryovat: Ever done a graphical one?
18:04 yoklov: i did befunge once
18:04 yoklov: if that counts
18:04 Cryovat: Hehe
18:04 yoklov: and was going to do piet, but never got around to it
18:05 andkerosine: SNUSP is lovely.
18:05 Cryovat: Hahaha
18:05 Cryovat: Looking at SNUSP now
18:05 Cryovat: That's actually cooler than Befunge
18:06 Cryovat: I might have a new favorite language
18:06 andkerosine: It's Befunge and Brainfuck's demon spawn. : )
18:07 yoklov: http://thomcc.github.com/GRID/ was going to be something like an ide for a befunge-like language (or just befunge, i never decided if i wanted to change the characters back to what they should be), but i never really got around to finishing it
18:07 yoklov: right now you can just run the text program though.
18:08 Cryovat: Nice
18:08 Cryovat: Reminds me of the Tenori-on
18:08 yoklov: it would have been if i finished it
18:09 yoklov: alright, that's the strangest thing i've seen all day.
18:10 Cryovat: What is?
18:11 yoklov: tenori-on
18:11 Cryovat: Ah
18:11 Cryovat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkhQHY_Lh24
18:11 Cryovat: It's awesome
18:12 Cryovat: Unfortunately, it's also really expensive
18:14 Cryovat: Flash version here: http://tonematrix.audiotool.com/
18:14 Cryovat: The tenori-on has several "channels" you can toggle iirc
18:17 Cryovat: They're really cool, but can't justify the 1000$ price tag
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18:27 yoklov: oh wow, 1000? I figured ~300
18:28 Cryovat: Exactly
18:28 Cryovat: It's a bit too much for what it is
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19:58 asumu: Oh, this oniguruma thing is hosted on geocities.jp. I had no idea geocities was still a thing.
19:59 asumu: Also, not surprising that Ruby uses it given its geographic origin.
20:00 Cryovat: The Japanese internet is interesting in some ways
20:00 Cryovat: I was equally surprised to learn that they use Excite
20:00 Cryovat: I vaguely remember Excite as something from my childhood that existed at the same point as Altavista and Hotbot
20:01 asumu: Yes, and Yahoo is/was surprisingly popular.
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20:04 Cryovat: ...wow
20:04 Cryovat: I went to hotbot.com to see if it just redirected to yahoo.com or something
20:04 Cryovat: Seems like it's owned by Lycos, and they still run that, plus Angelfire and Tripod
20:06 Cryovat: Seems like Yahoo is the search backend though
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20:12 offby1: wow, welcome to 1995
20:12 nilyaK: yahoo seems like welcome to 1995 in itself.
20:15 Cryovat: Yahoo has been doing an impressive job mismanaging their brand
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20:15 nilyaK: related remember that like chocolate drink stuff
20:16 nilyaK: ah similar name
20:16 nilyaK: not the same :P
20:22 nilyaK: oh and AOL my dad still uses AOL which is something I cannot figure out, I set him up with firefox and thunderbird when he gets a new computer and he somehow manages to download and use AOL when he can't even figure out how to use a search engine or save an attachment, it baffles me.
20:22 offby1: nilyaK: I half-remember that.
20:23 offby1: Never had it, but saw the ads.
20:23 offby1: nilyaK: :)
20:23 Cryovat: The AOL browser?
20:23 nilyaK: yea it's like a browser organized as a popup ad
20:23 nilyaK: yes
20:23 offby1: every nerd I know does remote IT for their families.
20:23 offby1: Some day someone will make a computer that's easy to use, and they'll make a bazillion dollars.
20:23 Cryovat: I refuse to touch my parents' computer after a certain episode
20:23 nilyaK: heh yea
20:24 Cryovat: My mother furiously accused me of breaking her internet
20:24 nilyaK: my mom today was like is your computer slow it's taking me forever to open this website
20:24 nilyaK: I was like no mom, it's not.
20:24 offby1: Cryovat: which -- the episode where Jennifer Aniston gets lost in Connecticut?
20:24 Cryovat: When I asked her why, she said that I had borrowed the computer a few weeks ago, and I had to have done something to it at that point
20:24 nilyaK: though my mom at least I got her to use noscript, like seriously, I'm shocked.
20:25 nilyaK: it was an amazing acomplishment.
20:25 offby1: I actually have JS disabled for most sites :-(  Makes me feel (once again) like it's 1995.
20:25 Cryovat: Turned out that her employer had set the homepage of the browser to http://our.intranetsite.no/pages/home/something
20:25 offby1: which loads 8,000 images and scripts.
20:25 Cryovat: And at some point they had moved it, so that every time she opened IE, she got a 404 Not Found page
20:25 nilyaK: if the sites actually used CSS and noscript tags like they're supposed to and gracefully degraded for non-JS users it wouldn't feel like 1995.
20:26 Cryovat: That was how I had "broken her internet"
20:26 offby1: big "if".
20:26 Cryovat: At that point, I woved to never ever get involved in her computing again
20:26 nilyaK: yea huge if, as in will never happen, I'm loving html5 but I'm like we cant even get people to right well formed html4 yet
20:26 nilyaK: write
20:26 nilyaK: wow I am bad
20:28 Cryovat: I got disillusioned about HTML5 when I realized that the WHATWG people decided that well formed XML is for pussies
20:28 nilyaK: d/w there's an XML version, XHTML5
20:29 Cryovat: The non-xml version looks like a parser nightmare
20:29 nilyaK: yes, it really does
20:29 nilyaK: I was trying to read what website was it
20:29 nilyaK: twitter
20:29 nilyaK: I was like what the hell is this...
20:29 nilyaK: and by read I mean not in a browser
20:29 Cryovat: I can't find any other motivation than laziness for coming up with something like that
20:30 nilyaK: XML seems very friendly
20:30 offby1: The trouble with HTML5 is: even if I disable JavaScript, HTML5 videos will still play.
20:31 nilyaK: disable videos :P
20:31 Cryovat: The whole HTML5 video thing is a mess too
20:31 nilyaK: yea, I'm hoping it really is a work in progress as they say
20:32 nilyaK: it's certainly not a w3c recommendation atm
20:32 Cryovat: And it seems to me that they're making a technology none of the content providers actually want
20:32 Cryovat: I mean, DRM is against the whole spirit of things, and I can't see any of the content providers using a non-DRM format for streaming
20:32 offby1: nilyaK: I don't know how to disable videos
20:35 nilyaK: noscript does, I'm sure there are addons for w/e browser you use etc
20:36 nilyaK: it's under embeddings then apply restrictions to trusted sites
20:38 offby1: hm.  Lastpass just told me to use noscript.  Alas, I use Chrome, and as far as I can tell, noscript isn't available for Chrome
20:38 nilyaK: no I don't think so :X there was a noscripts addon which did some sort of similar stuff but idk if it does that, lemme see what I can find
20:39 offby1: thanks!
20:39 offby1: I'm sure there are 1,000 extensions that claim to do the same thing; but the problem is: which works well, and which is trustworthy?
20:40 nilyaK: yea idk, I know it wasn't quite the same for me and I went back to ff simply because of noscript
20:41 andkerosine: offby1: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/geddoclleiomckbhadiaipdggiiccfje
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20:47 offby1: andkerosine: thanks
20:48 andkerosine: Sure thing.
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20:49 nilyaK2 dispises wifi.
20:49 andkerosine despises "dispises".
20:50 andkerosine: : P
20:50 nilyaK2: despise even
20:50 (quit) nilyaK: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
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20:52 (nick) nilyaK2 -> Kaylin
20:52 offby1: rudybot: seen nilyaK2
20:52 rudybot: *offby1: nilyaK2 was seen in #racket two minutes ago, saying "despise even", and then nilyaK2 was seen changing their nick to Kaylin in c-67-201-215-172.reshall.wwu.edu twenty-two seconds ago
20:52 offby1: Kaylin: why?  I like it 'cuz it lets me use the Internet without wires.
20:53 Kaylin: because this:
20:53 Kaylin: (5:50:23 PM) nilyaK left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
20:53 Kaylin: (5:51:40 PM) nilyaK1 left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
20:54 offby1: *shrugh*
20:54 offby1: it's imperfect, that's for sure.
20:54 offby1: But who among us isn't?
20:54 offby1: (OK, eli, no need to raise your hand; we already knew you were pefect)
20:54 Kaylin: my ex roommate /swoon
20:54 offby1: Kaylin: do tell
20:55 offby1: pix or it didn't happen &c
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20:59 Kaylin: why do people have such trouble making dropdowns and click effects w/o javascript ahhhh
20:59 Cryovat: Why do people have to make them in the first place? :/
20:59 Kaylin: click effects I can understand, see a thumbnail click to enlarge
21:00 Kaylin: dropdowns are just annoying
21:00 Cryovat: Yeah
21:00 Kaylin: I want to see all the choices nowwwww
21:00 Cryovat: And usually buggy
21:00 Cryovat: I can't count the number of times I've fought with dropdowns in a mobile browser
21:00 Kaylin: I was trying to buy a dress earlier on nordstrom's website I was like this must be buggy bc I have javascript off
21:00 Kaylin: verdict: nope, just buggy
21:01 Cryovat: I've never bought clothing online
21:02 Cryovat: Always worried about the hassle if the size is wrong
21:02 Kaylin: I know the size is wrong, I have to get it tailored anyway, I know the chest will be too large /damnit.
21:04 Cryovat: Sounds expensive
21:04 Kaylin: yea =/ well whatcha gonna do.
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21:17 scvrory: hi, i'm using parser tools to write a lexer and i'm trying to match the token (:: "@" (:* alphabetic)) but i want the token to hold only the part after the "@". is there a way to supress part of the re or should i just chop off the head char?
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21:20 jonrafkind: i think you just have to chop it off
21:20 scvrory: ok
21:21 scvrory: a supress function would be nice, that's what python's pyparsing has
21:21 scvrory: so you could do something like (:: (supress "@") (:* alphabetic))
21:21 scvrory: i don't know enough about the internals of parser-tools to know if that's feasable though
21:30 scvrory: jonrafkind: is there a way to do regular expression groups then?
21:30 scvrory: that would do the trick too
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22:02 Cryovat: I need a little help with macros
22:02 Cryovat: This is what I want to achive: https://gist.github.com/6c5da77044710a62e5bb
22:03 Cryovat: But looking at the documentation, I'm not sure what I have to use to achieve it
22:03 Cryovat: s/sheet/things/
22:03 Cryovat: Actually, let me revise it
22:04 Cryovat: https://gist.github.com/6c5da77044710a62e5bb
22:04 Cryovat: There, sorry about that
22:06 mithos28: why does that need to be a macro?
22:07 asumu: mithos28: seems like you'd need to pass extra parameters to `draw` to do it procedurally.
22:07 Cryovat: I want to hide the repeated variables, basically
22:07 Cryovat: variables -> arguments
22:08 mithos28: (with-sprite-list things (lambda (draw) …))
22:08 asumu: Yeah, that seems like it'd work.
22:09 mithos28: with draw being (lambda (thing x y) (set-shader-var! pos x y) (gl-draw things thing))
22:09 mithos28: and with-sprite-list doing the setup and teardown before calling the main code
22:11 Cryovat: Hmm, I'll try that
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22:11 andkerosine: nilyaK1: Anagrams > palindromes.
22:12 andkerosine: Pardon me.
22:12 andkerosine: (> anagrams palindromes)
22:12 nilyaK1: oic
22:12 andkerosine: For srs.
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22:23 Cryovat: This achieved what I wanted, thanks :)
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23:20 mithos28: How can I bind a pattern to false in match? I want to do this for one branch of an or pattern.
23:26 asumu: mithos28: does (and x #f) work?
23:28 nilyaK1: nor right?
23:28 mithos28: that only matchs #f
23:28 mithos28: (or (list x) {with y = #f) (list x y))
23:29 mithos28: and if it is the first branch y is bound to #f
23:33 asumu: mithos28: (list x (and y #f)) should work.
23:33 asumu: That way y is bound in all the patterns.
23:33 mithos28: rudybot: (match (list 1) ((list x (and y #f)) y))
23:33 rudybot: mithos28: your sandbox is ready
23:33 rudybot: mithos28: error: match: no matching clause for '(1)
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23:35 asumu: Oh, you want that to actually match? (as opposed to (list 1 #f))
23:35 mithos28: yeah
23:36 asumu: Why not just always bind y to #f in the body?
23:36 mithos28: because If the other pattern matches I want to have y bound to something
23:37 mithos28: They arn't two different match cases, because the have the same body
23:38 mithos28: I could do it by abstracting out the body to a procedure, but I would have to pass in all the variables from the match, and there is no good place to define that procedure
23:38 mithos28: since I cannot do it in the middle of the match
23:41 asumu: rudybot: (match '((list 1) #f) [(or (list (list x y) _) (list (list x) y)) y])
23:41 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: 1
23:41 asumu: ^ this seems kinda silly, but is it close to what you wnat?
23:41 asumu: *want
23:41 asumu: Just pass a junk #f along to match to y if needed.
23:43 mithos28: Then all my cases have to change to avoid looking at that junk value, it seems like match is lacking in this regard
23:43 asumu: Yeah, I can't think of a nice way to express that.
23:43 asumu: Maybe samth will have some ideas.
23:43 mithos28: I'm going to file a bug on it.
23:44 mithos28: I havn't seen him around today, and it is late on the east coast
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