00:06 (quit) pmatey: Quit: leaving
00:26 neilv: the logo on the drracket splash in pre looks like it had a plastic molding problem
00:34 (quit) jamessan: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
00:36 (join) jamessan
00:37 (quit) karswell: Remote host closed the connection
00:41 (join) jhemann
00:47 (join) karswell
00:57 (quit) jonrafkind: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
01:03 (quit) neilv: Quit: Leaving
01:10 (join) RacketCommitBot
01:10 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/L9MLkg
01:10 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] added begin-on-demand (combo of module* and lazy-require) - Ryan Culpepper
01:10 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] syntax/parse: increase timeout for stress-template - Ryan Culpepper
01:10 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] db: fix mysql large blobs, other changes - Ryan Culpepper
01:10 (part) RacketCommitBot
01:20 (join) jeapostrophe
01:32 (quit) jeapostrophe: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
02:49 (join) bluezenix
02:51 (quit) jrslepak: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
02:54 (join) jrslepak
02:57 (quit) jhemann: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
03:02 (quit) bluezenix: Quit: Leaving.
03:13 (join) cdidd
03:36 (join) mceier
03:41 (join) antithesis
04:04 (quit) karswell: Remote host closed the connection
04:04 (quit) Shviller: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
04:04 (join) Shviller
04:08 (join) bitonic
04:14 (join) karswell
04:30 (quit) karswell: Remote host closed the connection
04:34 (join) bluezenix
04:40 (join) karswell
04:43 (join) dzhus
04:44 (quit) bluezenix: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
05:07 (quit) karswell: Remote host closed the connection
05:13 (join) bluezenix
05:17 (join) karswell
05:32 (join) bluezenix1
05:32 (quit) bluezenix: Read error: Connection reset by peer
05:32 (quit) karswell: Remote host closed the connection
05:34 (join) djcb`
05:36 (quit) djcb: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
05:42 (join) karswell
05:45 (quit) dzhus: Remote host closed the connection
05:54 (quit) bluezenix1: Quit: Leaving.
06:01 (join) bluezenix
06:01 (quit) antithesis: Quit: yes leaving
06:01 (join) masm
06:05 (quit) bluezenix: Client Quit
06:23 (quit) karswell: Remote host closed the connection
06:29 (join) bluezenix
06:33 (join) karswell
06:38 (quit) bluezenix: Quit: Leaving.
06:46 (join) antithesis
07:23 (quit) Shambles_: Read error: Connection reset by peer
07:29 (quit) antithesis: Quit: yes leaving
07:49 (join) RacketCommitBot
07:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 7 new commits to master: http://git.io/1ek8gg
07:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] docs: will executors are synchronizable events - Matthew Flatt
07:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix most-negative number and _int64 on a 64-bit platform - Matthew Flatt
07:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix contract in docs - Matthew Flatt
07:49 (part) RacketCommitBot
08:05 (join) Shambles_
08:06 (join) bluezenix
08:34 (quit) masm: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
08:36 (join) masm
08:36 (quit) bluezenix: Quit: Leaving.
08:58 (join) jeapostrophe
09:01 (join) mceier_
09:04 (join) bluezenix
09:05 (quit) mceier: Disconnected by services
09:05 (nick) mceier_ -> mceier
09:08 (quit) eli: *.net *.split
09:11 (quit) bluezenix: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
09:11 (join) Kreol[UKR]
09:37 (join) bluezenix
09:38 (quit) noam: Read error: Connection reset by peer
09:38 (join) noam
09:44 (quit) noam: Read error: Connection reset by peer
09:44 (join) noam
09:48 (join) Skola
09:48 (quit) Skola: Client Quit
09:58 (join) jao`
09:59 (quit) bluezenix: Quit: Leaving.
09:59 (quit) jao`: Changing host
09:59 (join) jao`
10:00 (nick) jao` -> jao
10:24 (join) RacketCommitBot
10:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/v32qiA
10:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix a problem with continuation allocation - Matthew Flatt
10:24 (part) RacketCommitBot
10:40 (quit) Kreol[UKR]: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
10:42 (join) jhemann
10:46 (quit) karswell: Remote host closed the connection
10:46 (quit) cdidd: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
10:52 (join) bluezenix
10:54 (join) pilz
10:55 (quit) _AlbireoX: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
10:55 pilz: Hi. Is there any difference between #lang htdp/bsl and choosing it from the language menu?
10:56 (join) karswell
10:56 (join) _AlbireoX
10:56 asumu: pilz: you should choose from the menu. IIRC the #lang htdp/bsl is still incomplete.
11:04 (join) untrusted
11:06 (quit) karswell: Remote host closed the connection
11:06 (join) cdidd
11:12 (quit) _AlbireoX: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
11:13 (quit) bluezenix: Quit: Leaving.
11:13 (join) jonrafkind
11:17 (join) karswell
11:24 (join) _AlbireoX
11:30 (join) bluezenix
11:30 (quit) bluezenix: Client Quit
11:34 (quit) karswell: Remote host closed the connection
11:38 (join) bluezenix
11:44 (join) karswell
11:46 (join) eli
11:46 (join) jao
11:47 (quit) jao: Changing host
11:47 (join) jao
11:47 (join) antithesis
11:55 (quit) untrusted: Remote host closed the connection
12:01 (quit) karswell: Remote host closed the connection
12:02 (quit) bitonic: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
12:04 (join) yoklov
12:11 (join) karswell
12:15 (join) bitonic
12:38 pilz: Thanks
12:38 (quit) pilz: Quit: Quit
12:44 (quit) jeapostrophe: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
12:49 (quit) Haffe: Quit: leaving
12:53 (quit) bluezenix: Quit: Leaving.
12:58 (nick) Nisstyre -> TheSussman
13:07 (quit) karswell: Remote host closed the connection
13:12 (join) dnolen
13:12 flying_rhino: hello again
13:12 flying_rhino: anyone here?
13:15 (quit) Shviller: Quit: bye
13:16 (join) Shviller
13:16 jonrafkind: no, the internet is down today
13:16 jonrafkind: try again in a week
13:17 (join) karswell
13:19 flying_rhino: so, in typed racket, what is a difference between making typed structures and making new types using define-type
13:19 flying_rhino: ?
13:21 jonrafkind: well define-type can create new types using the type constructors like `All'
13:21 jonrafkind: and `U'
13:21 jonrafkind: so (define-type string-or-integer (U string integer)) for example makes a new type that can be either a string or an integer
13:21 jonrafkind: this is not the same as (struct blah (string integer)), thats a new structure that contains a string and an integer
13:22 jonrafkind: so (is-type? blah 5) would fail while (is-type? string-or-integer 5) would succeed
13:22 jonrafkind: (I made up is-type?, i dont know what the real predicate is in typed/racket)
13:22 (join) chrissbx
13:28 flying_rhino: okay
13:29 flying_rhino: I mixed something up
13:32 (quit) chrissbx: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
13:33 flying_rhino: I think you ought to know that working with structures is tedious in racket. To acess structure fields you have to type (structure-data instance). If you have structure inside structure (like structA that has field that can hold structB) then it looks like (structureB-data (structureA-fieldB instance)) . What is wrong with some kind of (GET instance structureA fieldB).
13:34 flying_rhino: ?
13:35 (quit) jonrafkind: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
13:35 flying_rhino: I am thionking of writing a macro for it, but I am not sure how to retrieve structure type from instance and am still a lisp noob.
13:35 flying_rhino: in fact figuring out the type when you only have instance seems to be kind of a problem here
13:37 (join) ydev
13:37 flying_rhino: actually my example should be (GET instance fieldB data)
13:38 flying_rhino: all in all way more convoluted than it should be!
13:41 (quit) antithesis: Quit: yes leaving
13:44 asumu: Just finished re-writing the intro of Racket's Wikipedia page.
13:44 asumu: Should read much better now (hopefully).
13:45 (join) antithesis
13:46 (quit) karswell: Remote host closed the connection
13:46 asumu: flying_rhino: It's because of scoping and identifiers.
13:47 asumu: (GET instance structureA fieldB) works okay as a macro maybe, but now you don't have a function you can use to get a certain field.
13:47 asumu: You have to wrap the macro in a lambda instead.
13:48 asumu: So if you wanted to map over a list of structures, you can't just use the GET thing.
13:48 (quit) jrslepak: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
13:53 (join) gciolli
13:56 flying_rhino: asumu: be that as it may, but I don't know of another language where you have to repeat structure name over and over again. Usually it is instance->field or instance.field . Ony in racket it is (struct-name-field instance)
13:56 (join) karswell
13:57 flying_rhino: poor design, in my opinion
14:00 asumu: flying_rhino: in those languages, you cannot use an accessor as a first-class function.
14:00 asumu: e.g. in Java, obj.field is not a function but an expression.
14:01 asumu: And there's no way to make it one. You could with lambdas of course.
14:02 (quit) gciolli: Quit: Leaving.
14:02 flying_rhino: asumu: what is the advantage of accessors as first-class functions? And it still doesnt explain why there isnt some sort of get form so you can write (GET instance field). Instance should always carry structure signature in it, or something is wrong with language.
14:02 (join) gciolli
14:03 flying_rhino: it generates half bajilion acessor functions which are tedious to work with
14:03 asumu: rudybot: (define-struct thing (a))
14:03 rudybot: asumu: Done.
14:03 asumu: rudybot: (map thing-a (list (thing 5) (thing 2) (thing 18)))
14:03 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: (5 2 18)
14:03 (quit) gciolli: Client Quit
14:03 asumu: In other languages, that requires an eta expansion.
14:05 asumu: In addition, structures don't, AFAIK, carry around the structure information. Otherwise, you couldn't define opaque structs.
14:05 asumu: Other languages either omit opaqueness (i.e., ignoring data encapsulation) or rely on another ad-hoc mechanism to provide it (public, private visibility modifiers)
14:07 asumu: If you want to write (get instance field) maybe you want to use classes or hashtables.
14:07 flying_rhino: this thing got classes?
14:07 flying_rhino: no one told me
14:07 asumu: rudybot: (define thing% (class object% (super-new) (field [a 0])))
14:07 rudybot: asumu: Done.
14:07 asumu: rudybot: (get-field a (new thing%))
14:07 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: 0
14:08 flying_rhino: thanks for helping me. What is the difference between struct and class? Something is tellig me that it is different than C :-)
14:09 flying_rhino: and how should I know which to use?
14:09 asumu: Racket classes are kinda like Java classes but with a few more features.
14:10 asumu: (they're implemented as a macro using structs and other stuff)
14:10 asumu: Structs are useful when you don't need OO features like methods and dynamic dispatch.
14:11 flying_rhino: are classes supported in typed racket, asumu?
14:11 (quit) karswell: Remote host closed the connection
14:11 (quit) antithesis: Quit: yes leaving
14:11 asumu: No, not yet. I'm working on that.
14:12 flying_rhino: :(
14:15 flying_rhino: The reason I am asking all this is because I am basically attempting to use racket to develop a game, so I need performance. Not C++ kind of performance, but some. The project is about 0.1% complete and seems more trouble than it is worth (in part because I lack free time to do it). I thought that I wanted lisp, but what I really want is Java or C# that doesn't have syntax and does have macros.
14:15 flying_rhino: So far racket doesn't seem to work all that great :(
14:15 flying_rhino: thanks for helping me, anyway.
14:17 flying_rhino: okay what I want would be Java that doesn't have syntax and does have macros, first class functions and less bloat :)
14:18 jamessan: jumping into a brand new language that is quite different than languages you're used to, when your time is already constrainted, seems like a good solution for failure :)
14:18 asumu: flying_rhino: well, so there are lots of ways to make dealing with structs easier though. One would be using pattern matching.
14:18 asumu: rudybot: (define-struct thing (a))
14:18 rudybot: asumu: Done.
14:18 asumu: rudybot: (define-struct nested (thing))
14:18 rudybot: asumu: Done.
14:19 asumu: rudybot: (define (f n) (match n [(struct nested ((struct thing (a))) a]))
14:19 rudybot: asumu: You could do it in any imperative language with nested callbacks, right?
14:19 (quit) acarrico: Quit: Leaving.
14:20 asumu: rudybot: (define (f n) (match n [(struct nested ((struct thing (a))) a])))
14:20 rudybot: asumu: ah, that problem isn't because the define is nested; rather, it's because it comes after a non-definition
14:21 asumu: rudybot: (define (f n) (match n [(struct nested ((struct thing (a)))) a])
14:21 rudybot: asumu: yeah, they're a bit difficult to get used to because of how they work. but once you understand them moving in and out of nested brackets becomes *so* easy.
14:21 asumu: rudybot: (define (f n) (match n [(struct nested ((struct thing (a)))) a]))
14:21 rudybot: asumu: Done.
14:21 asumu: There we go
14:21 asumu: rudybot: (f (nested (thing 5)))
14:21 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: 5
14:21 asumu: flying_rhino: ^
14:22 (join) karswell
14:22 asumu: But of course, if you really need methods to organize your program, structs won't give you that.
14:25 flying_rhino: I don't really need methods
14:26 flying_rhino: I am fine with directly acessing structure fields, for performance. If I was creating my game in java I wouldn't have used getters and setters for performance reasons. I am not obessed with OOP, but I AM used to imperative aproach to things and to not repeating myself.
14:27 flying_rhino: but thanks
14:37 flying_rhino: pattern matching is pretty cool, though
14:37 flying_rhino: :-)
14:39 (quit) ydev: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
14:42 (join) antithesis
14:58 (quit) karswell: Remote host closed the connection
15:08 (join) karswell
15:20 (quit) karswell: Read error: Connection reset by peer
15:26 (join) jonrafkind
15:28 (quit) ssbr_: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
15:30 (join) karswell
15:33 (quit) karswell: Client Quit
15:50 (join) ssbr_
16:00 (join) anRch
16:05 (join) jrslepak
16:21 (join) jeapostrophe
16:32 (quit) anRch: Quit: anRch
16:34 (quit) antithesis: Quit: yes leaving
16:36 (join) ydev
16:37 ydev: I'm trying to open a window on click of a button. But now I want the frame to open only if its closed. Any idea how one do it ?
16:47 (quit) noam: Read error: Connection reset by peer
16:48 (join) noam
16:49 (join) Kaylin
17:00 (join) Fare
17:05 asumu: ydev: you can probably use the show and is-shown? methods.
17:16 Fare: how did the racket team solve, avoid, or fall into the character encoding mess?
17:16 Fare: do you enforce use of utf-8 for all .rkt source files?
17:17 ydev: asumu, there is no is-shown? method for frames i think
17:17 ydev: and show method can only be used to make the frame #t or #f
17:24 (quit) dnolen: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
17:26 (quit) jeapostrophe: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
17:42 asumu: ydev: There is. It's inherited from window<%>.
17:44 asumu: Fare: http://pre.racket-lang.org/docs/html/release-notes/racket/MzScheme_300.txt mentions the unicode transition.
17:49 ydev: asumu:  I used this but it is still creating multiple windows, (cond [(eq? (send frame1 is-shown?) #f) (send frame1 show #t)])
17:55 (quit) Kaylin: Quit: Leaving.
17:58 ydev: asumu: I guess the frame object by default, show is false...
18:17 (join) dnolen
18:19 (join) asd_
18:20 (nick) asd_ -> Guest36244
18:21 (join) chrissbx
18:25 Guest36244: hello,I have a question. I am using tcp client server.and the client writes to its output port using "print" and the server is able to read it using "read" . But this works only in Dr.Racket.If I create an exe then the messages are not sent.
18:26 (quit) bitonic: Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5
18:27 (join) kalluri
18:38 (quit) kalluri: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
18:41 (quit) chrissbx: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
18:43 (join) jeapostrophe
19:21 (quit) dnolen: Remote host closed the connection
19:24 (quit) jeapostrophe: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
19:32 (join) chrissbx
19:34 (quit) ydev: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
19:38 (join) ASau
19:39 ASau: Hello!
19:39 ASau: I have seen the announcement of release process.
19:40 ASau: Could you tell if you have a separate branch for 5.3 or do you do release engineering on the trunk?
20:02 offby1: pretty sure there's a separate branch
20:02 offby1: ASau: see https://github.com/plt/racket/branches
20:11 ASau: It is not clear from that.
20:11 ASau: Which branch should I test for cheking future 5.3 release?
20:18 offby1: I would assume the one named "release".
20:21 (quit) cdidd: Remote host closed the connection
20:24 (join) jeapostrophe
20:28 (join) dented42
20:30 (quit) jeapostrophe: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
20:43 (join) Kaylin
20:49 (join) bluezenix
21:10 (quit) bluezenix: Quit: Leaving.
21:28 (join) kvda
21:41 (quit) kvda: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
21:59 (quit) masm: Quit: Leaving.
22:11 (quit) jao: Remote host closed the connection
22:27 (quit) yoklov: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
22:33 (join) yoklov
22:42 (join) kvda
23:46 (join) jeapostrophe