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05:29 lewis1711: is there anyway to tell if some arbitrary identifier has a value? like (defined? foo) -> boolean
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08:31 bremner: what is libracket3m.a used for? "raco exe" ?
08:32 lewis1711: https://gist.github.com/2251192 does anyone have any clue where I could put a "self" macro, so when defining an object I could use (self 'slotname) instead of (objectname 'slotname) ?
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08:39 bremner: hmm. It seems to be "link against libracket3m.a to embed racket"
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08:58 hkBst: lewis1711: I guess with the way you've set it up with eval like that it needs to go inside the eval.
08:58 lewis1711: hkBst: I only used the eval so I could stuck lambdas in the hash table. but yeah
08:59 hkBst: lewis1711: it might be better if you don't quote the part that needs evaling in the first place, then it might work as is.
09:00 lewis1711: I have to quote it to get a list of it don't I?
09:01 hkBst: lewis1711: each slot is composed of a key and a value, so you can do `(key . ,value) and you don't need a for loop, just use ...
09:02 lewis1711: I have no idea how to do that :)
09:03 lewis1711: or rather, I'm not quite sure what you're saying
09:04 hkBst: lewis1711: which part?
09:04 lewis1711: how I don't need a for loop, and how I can decompose things to a key and value
09:08 hkBst: the decomposing part happens in the way you define the call syntax of your macro. You could do:   (define-syntax-rule (defobject name (key0 val0) (key val) ...) for example.
09:08 hkBst: then it would be a syntax error to do (defobject posn (x 1 2 3))
09:09 lewis1711: oh yeah, that's a good point
09:10 hkBst: as for the for loop. Using ... you can let the macro expand to as many direct calls of hash-set as you want, instead of expanding the list of slots and then using for. Just write what you need for the first key-value slot and let ... generrate it for the other slots.
09:10 lewis1711: it more closely matches the structure of what I am pissin gin
09:11 lewis1711: hkBst: how do I let ... generate it?
09:12 hkBst: lewis1711: you just put the three dots and the macro system will do it. How does '(slot1 ...) get expanded to a list of slots?
09:12 (quit) samth: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
09:13 hkBst: you can make it arbitrarily complex. simple non-sense example: ((slot1slot1slot1) ...)
09:14 lewis1711: I don't know how to quote the key that gets passed in though
09:14 lewis1711: if I do hash-set slots 'key val, it will set it under 'key, even if key is something different, which it will be, if that makes sense
09:15 hkBst: after binding key and value (as pattern variables), you can put `(key . ,value) in the template and it will quote the key, but not the value.
09:15 hkBst: or just do (hash-set! 'key value)
09:16 lewis1711: won't that always result in the key being literally 'key?
09:16 hkBst: no
09:17 hkBst: it won't if key is the name of an argument of your macro (aka pattern variable)
09:17 lewis1711: (define (q s) 's)
09:17 lewis1711: oh right so it works different from fucntions
09:18 hkBst: yes, never think macros are functions
09:18 hkBst: your code won't work :)
09:18 lewis1711: what's the template?
09:19 hkBst: happens to me all the time, but I try... ;P
09:19 hkBst: lewis1711: the part that the macro call should expand into
09:19 lewis1711: yeah I get that macros aren't functions, but I didn't know quote would work differently in a macro context
09:20 hkBst: lewis1711: it's just that the macro works first, and then after the quote works at the normal function level. To the macro that quote is just data.
09:21 hkBst: lewis1711: are you trying to do something useful or just trying to learn?
09:21 hkBst: not that I want to imply that leaerning is unuseful...
09:22 lewis1711: lol. well I'd like to be able to make a useful, basic prototype object system
09:22 lewis1711: ok I think I changed my macro per your suggestsions
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09:22 lewis1711: though I am still a bit iffy on how to rid myself of eval
09:22 lewis1711: https://gist.github.com/2251514
09:23 lewis1711: oh hang on
09:23 lewis1711: it should be... (defobject (name) `(key . ,value) ...
09:24 lewis1711: owch no that's not it
09:27 lewis1711: anyway, falling asleep now. thanks for your help
09:28 hkBst: lewis1711: now you don't need eval anymore
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09:46 samth: bremner: yeah, see the 'inside' manual for the interface of that library
09:47 bremner: someone was complaining it should be compiled -fPIC, and I was trying to figure out what it was.
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09:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/9I_S6g
09:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix priority of refresh for SGL example - Matthew Flatt
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10:18 ozzloy: asumu, thanks
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11:08 dyoo: lewis1711: about checking whether an identifier has been bound yet or not.
11:08 dyoo: lewis1711: you can check, at compile time, binding info with the identifier-binding function
11:20 haffe: Hello people. Would you mind helping me some more? I have inherited a canvas with a mouse-handler that takes mouse events.
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11:20 haffe: Am I missunderstood that I should use (send mouse-event is-a-left-down) to get if it is a left click?
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11:21 dyoo: haffe: checking...
11:23 dyoo: You should be able to say something like (send mouse-event button-down? 'left)
11:23 dyoo: http://docs.racket-lang.org/gui/mouse-event_.html
11:23 haffe: Ok.
11:23 haffe: That's the syntax.
11:23 haffe: I really tried to wrap my head around the syntax.
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11:24 haffe: Can I do something like (send object 'available-methods) ?
11:24 dyoo: I think so.  Checking...
11:25 dyoo: A combination of features in http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/objectutils.html should do it
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11:25 dyoo: (object-interface an-object) to get at the interface
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11:26 dyoo: and then interface->method-names to get at the methods
11:26 haffe: Ok-.
11:26 haffe: Thanks.
11:26 haffe: This will speed up my development exponentially.
11:26 dyoo: Generically sending a message to an object, given a runtime symbolic value, should also be possible, but note that (send ... ) expects to know
11:26 dyoo: the message at compile time; doing it at runtime is a little more work.
11:26 dyoo: checking...
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11:27 dyoo: dynamic-send is probably what you'll want if you're doing this at runtime
11:27 dyoo: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/ivaraccess.html#(def._((lib._racket/private/class-internal..rkt)._dynamic-send))
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11:28 dyoo: Expect some runtime expense in contrast to using regular send.  (send ...) should be faster because the dispatch can be computed at compile time
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11:29 danking: Any idea why a call to `dict-ref' on a make-custom-immutable-hash, some user-defined structure, and a default value of some other user-defined structure, would throw a "match: no matching clause for (list <the first user defined structure>)"?
11:30 dyoo: danking: do you have example code that emits the error?
11:32 danking: dyoo: It's buried rather deep in my software. I haven't yet found any simple examples
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11:33 danking: or rather, in my code.
11:35 danking: ah
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11:36 danking: Hmm. I wonder if dict-ref can be modified to somehow better report that the match error is coming from the user-supplied hashing function. In my code it jumps from the call to dict-ref straight to collects/racket/match/runtime.rkt:21:0: match:error.
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11:38 dyoo: danking: I'm surprised that the match error isn't precisely highlighting the user-level code then.  Is it compiled code, by chance?
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11:40 dyoo: (or is the Debugging dynamic property setting in the DrRacket language setting off?)
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11:45 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/Pe2Vxw
11:45 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] update module language part of language-test.rkt for submodules - Robby Findler
11:45 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] some cleanups, thanks to Eli - Robby Findler
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11:46 danking: dyoo: I'm not using DrRacket, I'm using the command line tools. The code is not compiled.
11:47 danking: I've noticed before the DrRacket produces much more useful-to-me error messages/locations than the command line tool.
11:47 mithos28: thats because drracket uses errortrace
11:48 mithos28: rudybot: doc errortrace
11:48 rudybot: mithos28: your sandbox is ready
11:48 rudybot: mithos28: not found in any library's documentation: errortrace
11:48 mithos28: http://docs.racket-lang.org/errortrace/using-errortrace.html?q=errortrace
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11:48 offby1: I generally throw in "-l errortrace" to my shebang line
11:53 danking: hmm
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11:54 dyoo: danking: yeah, it might be worthwhile to try either in DrRacket and see if the error does highlight precisely, or try using command-line with errortrace in place
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11:56 Aune: Hello, i have a problem: http://pastebin.com/cnVXbD2Q
11:56 Aune: I hope it is obvious what I'm trying to do. But somehow I cant get it to work
11:57 offby1: can't help ya; that's more complex than my tiny brain can handle
11:57 mithos28: Aune: ill take a look
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11:59 Aune: What lead me to this is writing a simple "for loop" macro with two possible syntaxes: "for i in '(1 2) do body" and "for '(1 2) as i do body" and then trying to lift out the common code
11:59 mithos28: what goes wrong?
11:59 Aune: compile: unbound identifier at phase 2 (and no #%app syntax transformer is bound) in: syntax-rules
11:59 mithos28: ah
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12:00 mithos28: add a require for syntax racket or a require-for-meta 2 racket/base
12:00 danking: Wow errortrace is sexy
12:01 offby1: for some value of "sexy"
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12:03 Aune: mithos28, Oh, thought that was in scheme/base
12:04 mithos28: racket ~= scheme and racket/base ~= scheme/base
12:04 mithos28: racket includes racket/base at phase 1 but not at phase 2
12:04 mithos28: you are making a macro within a macro, so at phase 1 you are making a macro
12:05 mithos28: that puts that macro, loop, at phase 2
12:05 mithos28: thus you need the machinery to make the macro available at phase 2
12:05 mithos28: did that work?
12:06 dyoo: (gotta go for the moment; see you later!)
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12:09 Aune: mithos28, due to being on a computer with only DrScheme, version 4.2.1, I dont have access to the racket libraries. I assume scheme/require-syntax is similar to racket/require-syntax. But I still get the same error.
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12:09 mithos28: that should not be an issue: can you post the whole program
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12:11 Aune: mithos28, the whole program is the code already pasted plus a line at the top : "(require scheme/require-syntax)"
12:11 mithos28: what #lang line? #lang scheme?
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12:11 Aune: Pretty Big
12:12 mithos28: is there a reason that you are using that?
12:12 mithos28: #lang is much better, less annoying corner cases
12:13 Aune: ok
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12:13 Aune: theres no reason other than it being what I used since the beginning of a course I've taken
12:14 danking: Aune: Which course is that?
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12:15 Aune: An introductory course at Link?ping university
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12:16 mithos28: ok got it running
12:16 mithos28: add '(require (for-syntax scheme))' at the top of the file
12:17 mithos28: fix your loop syntax-rules to have the parens in the right spot, same for the let inside that binds id
12:17 mithos28: move loop to a define-syntax at the top level
12:18 Aune: ok
12:18 mithos28: actually you don't need the require line
12:18 mithos28: you just to to move it to the top level
12:19 mithos28: you didn't want the macro defined at phase 1
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12:19 mithos28: you wanted to use it in the template which means that it must be a macro at phase 0
12:19 Aune: Is there a way to do it without moving it to the top level though, I kind of wanted to not make that macro available outside the for-macros scope
12:20 Aune: Is that hard / not possible or am I only confused?
12:20 mithos28: It needs to be accessible from the use site of for
12:21 mithos28: thus it has to be defined at the top-level/ encompassing the use site of for
12:22 mithos28: it could be marked in such a way that the only uses of it come from for
12:22 Aune: Oh, ok, so it expands the for-macro and then expands sub-macros in the scope of the current macro "call-site"?
12:23 mithos28: but that would require a little more macro hackery than I have time for right now, I have to go to work soon
12:23 mithos28: yes
12:23 Aune: Then Im confused about the intended use-case for let-syntax
12:24 mithos28: for locally scoped macros
12:24 mithos28: not submacros
12:24 mithos28: say you wanted for to only be available under the let
12:25 Aune: and then locally scoped macro means as "defined inside a function" and not as in "defined inside another macro"?
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12:27 Aune: Or am I still confused?
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12:49 mithos28: If you define it in another macro it would be useful for expanding the code that becomes the syntax-rules part of that macro
12:50 mithos28: both would be locally scoped but if it is under a define-syntax/let-syntax it is raised a phase
12:50 Aune: yeah, I know, I just have a desire to keep my namespace as clean as possible
12:51 mithos28: Use a module and only export for
12:51 Aune: true, that is a better solution
12:51 mithos28: that would be the easiest way to implement the marking strategy I was suggesting
12:52 mithos28: since the template object is constructed from inside the module it can see hidden bindings of the module
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13:06 Aune: Ok, I think my problem is that I don't understand macro-phases properly.
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13:22 Aune: mithos28,  Oh, I still dont think I understand the use-case for let-syntax. You said it was for locally scoped macros but isnt that just writing (define (fun a) (define-syntax ....) body). Is there a diffrence between the preceding and (define (fun a) (let-syntax ... body))?
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14:01 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/1EVw8g
14:01 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [Distributed Places] Renamed uses of vm to node, removed export of coercion functions - Kevin Tew
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14:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/97Nj_w
14:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix compiler warning - Kevin Tew
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14:37 danking: I find myself liking Option types (i.e. (some value) (none)) better than predicates when the predicates are non-trivial. It seems that I shouldn't repeat the work.
14:37 danking: But I feel un-rackety.
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16:04 asumu: rudybot: (define-syntax-rule (ラムダ (x) e) (lambda (x) e))
16:04 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
16:04 rudybot: asumu: Done.
16:04 asumu: rudybot: (ラムダ ラムダ ラムダ)
16:04 rudybot: asumu: error: #<undefined>:1:0: ラムダ: use does not match pattern: (ラムダ (x) e) in: (ラムダ ラムダ ラムダ)
16:04 asumu: rudybot: (define-syntax-rule (ラムダ x e) (lambda x e))
16:04 rudybot: asumu: Done.
16:04 asumu: rudybot: (ラムダ ラムダ ラムダ)
16:04 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: #<procedure>
16:04 asumu: rudybot: ((ラムダ ラムダ ラムダ) 'ラムダ 'ラムダ 'ラムダ 'ラムダ)
16:04 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: (ラムダ ラムダ ラムダ ラムダ)
16:06 offby1: you've taught the bot Japanese, apparently
16:06 offby1: what's he saying?
16:06 asumu: offby1: Lots of lambdas. :p
16:06 rudybot: 助けて、助け：私は日本語を話す躁によって徴用されています！
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17:19 haffe: Sweet.
17:19 haffe: I got my little racket drawing program to work.
17:19 haffe: Thanks for all the help people.
17:20 rudybot: haffe: 私の自動翻訳を恐れている！
17:32 ozzloy: haffe, congrats!
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17:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/n-nQLA
17:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add the #:validate argument to get-text-from-user - Robby Findler
17:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust DrRacket submodule-running options so the user - Robby Findler
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19:00 eli: rudybot: t8 ja en ラムダ
19:00 rudybot: eli: Λ
19:00 eli: rudybot: t8 ja he ラムダ
19:00 rudybot: eli: Λ
19:00 eli: rudybot: t8 ja he 助けて、助け：私は日本語を話す躁によって徴用されています！
19:00 rudybot: eli: הצילו, הצילו: אני כבר נתפסה על ידי מאני לדבר יפנית!
19:04 (join) jrslepak
19:04 eli: rudybot: t8 he en למבדה
19:04 rudybot: eli: Lambda
19:13 danking: rudybot: ta ca en 你好美女！
19:13 rudybot: danking: ta da
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19:13 danking: rudybot: t8 ca en 你好美女！
19:13 rudybot: danking: Hello beautiful!
19:13 danking: Haha
19:14 danking: rudybot: t8 ca en 我从来没有听过这么好听的音乐会！
19:14 rudybot: danking: I have never heard such a nice concert!
19:14 (quit) ssbr_: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
19:15 (quit) mceier: Quit: leaving
19:16 rudybot: danking: Et veus bé prou per menjar!
19:18 (quit) masm: Quit: Leaving.
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19:33 danking: rudybot: ta fr en Et veus bé prou per menjar!
19:33 rudybot: danking: ta
19:33 danking: rudybot: t8 fr en Et veus bé prou per menjar!
19:33 rudybot: danking: You look good enough to eat!
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19:35 rudybot: danking: 请给我买两个豪华轿车，公寓大楼，和里尔
20:04 lewis1711: https://gist.github.com/2258036 I understand why line 7 doesn't work (and causes "unbound identifier" at line16, but I am wondering, err..how I could make it work? :D Ie make self refer to whatever object I am building
20:31 rapacity: hey lewis1711 try this https://gist.github.com/2258178
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20:31 rapacity: hmm :<
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21:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/HYlCsA
21:58 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] forgot the result contract - Robby Findler
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23:18 lewis1711: rapacity: I just saw your fork of my gist, thanks
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