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01:21 asumu: Here is an interesting thesis. Scheme is a better fit for iPads than other languages: http://slidetocode.com/2012/03/17/coding-reinvented-for-the-ipad/
01:21 asumu: (or s/Scheme/Lisp/ if you like)
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08:00 nilyaK: Cooking will have four specializations allowing for customized food.
08:00 nilyaK: That may be fun
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08:10 noelw: Did someone say food?
08:10 noelw: Good idea!
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08:45 Vegar_: Hi everyone
08:46 Vegar_: What editor do you use? I'm a huge fan of sublime text; and was wondering if any of you know of any 3rd party syntax config i can download for st2 :D (scheme r5rs)
08:46 bremner: I use emacs
08:48 Gertm: bremner: what mode?
08:48 bremner: geiser
08:49 Vegar_: I'm a vim boy (ST2 has vi mode) <3
08:49 bremner: emacs has several vi modes. Some people seem to like them.
08:49 Vegar_: Came from vim before going to ST2
08:49 Vegar_: emacs has support for scheme then?
08:50 Vegar_: Maybe the syntax files are similar, and I adjust it to fit my editor :D
08:50 bremner: I doubt that will be easy.
08:50 shadgregory: evil is a vim emulator for emacs, I've been pretty happy with it
08:50 bremner: emacs is customized with emacs-lisp
08:51 Vegar_: :O
08:53 bremner: Vegar_: depending on your taste, there is also DrRacket.
08:54 Vegar_: That's what I'm using now. I don't like it. :/
08:54 bremner: fair enough
08:54 bremner: for some things, like the debugger, there is no choice except DrRacket
08:54 bremner: and it's handy for working on things with graphics output.
08:55 Vegar_: Yes, that I understand. But for my use - which is a pretty simple course on my university - I don't think I'll be needing such features
08:56 bremner: no Debugger?
08:56 bremner: well, anyway you can certainly do most things in a text editor.
08:56 Vegar_: Well you know, when you always get it right the first time you dont need a debugger! <I wish> hehe
08:57 Vegar_: I'd just like the syntax pretty in my editor :D so i'll keep looking for that
08:57 bremner: I remember discussion of setting up an "external editor" for DrRacket; I'm not sure of the details now.
08:57 Vegar_: :o
09:00 Vegar_: Thanks a lot for the info, bremner :)
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09:15 neilv: lately, i'm using drracket more than emacs
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09:17 neilv: the macro stepper had gotten me using drracket intermittently, and the online check syntax sealed the deal. tabs, whenever they happened, made it feasible to use drracket for several files at once
09:20 Gertm: If only it would have good keybinds.
09:20 bremner: and was fast
09:21 bremner: maybe I'm delusional, but it always seems slower to evaluate things in DrRacket.
09:21 neilv: at least it has alt-arrows. i haven't looked into the keybindings features yet, though, and have just been keeping my keystrokes simple
09:21 neilv: bremner: they have a bunch of debugging and stuff enabled by default
09:22 bremner: could be.
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09:22 neilv: bremner: plus, i think they drracket and your program are still running in the same host process
09:25 Gertm: For most things drracket is quite enough. It's slower yes. But as long as it doesn't interfere with editing fluidness..
09:25 Gertm: s/enough/good
09:27 noelw: Wow, neilv's sleep deprivation is making him delusional.
09:27 noelw: Emacs emacs emacs emacs emacs emacs and emacs. That's all that needs be said.
09:28 neilv: yeah, i shouldn't get too enamored of drracket, since i need to finish meow's indenter and release it
09:29 neilv: http://www.neilvandyke.org/weblog/2011/06/#2011-06-20
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11:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/M0E58A
11:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix problems with user-defined keybindings and the example in the docs - Robby Findler
11:00 (part) RacketCommitBot
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11:05 offby1: rudybot: (+ 1 2 3)
11:05 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
11:05 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 6
11:05 offby1: rudybot: welcome back, sir
11:05 rudybot: *offby1: thank you much, sir. looks to be just what i wanted. (http://docs.plt-scheme.org/gui/drawing-overview.html)
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11:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/h9zpOA
11:13 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix bug in autobib's handling of urls. - Vincent St-Amour
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11:21 tim-brown: quickee... are two vectors of the same (fixnum numbers) eqv? or equal?
11:22 tim-brown: (as hash keys(
11:22 tim-brown: ))
11:22 jonrafkind: rudybot: (eqv? #(1) #(1))
11:22 rudybot: jonrafkind: your sandbox is ready
11:22 rudybot: jonrafkind: ; Value: #f
11:22 jonrafkind: rudybot: (equal? #(1) #(1))
11:22 rudybot: jonrafkind: ; Value: #t
11:22 tim-brown: jonrafkind, rudybot: thanks
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11:23 neilv: with eq/eqv/equal, you want to read what the documentation specifies, not try to figure it out empirically
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11:26 neilv: for one reason, trying to do it empirically, the vagaries of your tests might give misleading answers (e.g., two objects seem to be eq in your test, but racket only guarantees eqv)
11:26 offby1: Is there some easy way to make "raco setup" go a zillion times faster?  Like, e.g., by skipping whatever the heck it's doing that takes so bloody long?
11:26 offby1: (Building docs mayve?)
11:26 offby1: *maybe
11:26 jeapostrophe: offby1: -D disables docs
11:26 offby1: jeapostrophe: thanks
11:27 jeapostrophe: offby1: "raco setup collect ..." just sets up those collects named
11:27 jeapostrophe: offby1: so if I am working on the web-server, I will typically just do "raco setup -D web-server"
11:27 tim-brown: if ever there was a racket FAQ!
11:28 tim-brown: (the raco thing, i mean)
11:28 neilv: "raco mcfly setup" (which i'll release soon) makes this a little easier: figures out what development link(s) are for the directory you're in, and does its thing with those, and then tells "raco setup" to rebuild only those
11:29 jeapostrophe: tim-brown: "raco help setup" shows the options and -D is there. the docs (in docs/raco) list a few of the common things
11:29 neilv: that doesn't solve the documentation-building slowness problem
11:29 tim-brown: must say though, the docs that come out of the bottom of the process are very nice, indeed!
11:29 jeapostrophe: i almost never run raco setup, because I always run programs with "raco make file && racket -t file -- $*"
11:29 jeapostrophe: (which I bind to 'rk')
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11:31 offby1: neilv: hm, that sounds good though
11:32 offby1: I can (barely) tolerate the insane slowness when running "make install" from the racket sources; but what's _really_ irksome is that the first time I then run my actual Racket program, it goes off and (apparently) builds _more_ docs, slowly, and with tons of scary errors spewed
11:32 offby1: neilv: if McFly ameliorates the latter problem I'll love it more than I already do
11:32 noelw: It builds character
11:32 offby1 can't stop mumbling about 1.21 gigawatts
11:32 offby1: noelw: my characters have character!
11:33 neilv: offby1: yeah, raco setup is not optimal for planet development, which is the kind of development that i think we should be making easiest
11:33 noelw: Word
11:33 offby1 always feels guilty at not putting more stuff on PLaneT
11:33 offby1: Excel
11:33 rudybot: Outlook
11:36 noelw: The horror!
11:37 jeapostrophe: offby1: the errors are probably from PLaneT. most PLaneT packages are in really bad shape relative to still compiling today
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11:40 offby1: could be ...
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11:44 neilv: aha. i got drracket to hang again, with a simple identifier rename. it's using 633MB and no cpu
11:46 offby1: Wasn't that a Bruce Springsteen song?  ♩♬ 633MB and no CPU ... ♫♪
11:46 offby1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5scpDev1qps for the preplexed
11:49 neilv: gdb says it's in: poll, default_sleep, check_sleep, scheme_thread_block, scheme_block_until, do_sunc, sch_sync_timeout, _scheme_apply_from_native_fast ...
11:49 jeapostrophe: neilv: are you using online check syntax?
11:50 chandler: jonrafkind: Any idea if it's possible to start building Racket PPA packages for precise?
11:51 jeapostrophe: jonrafkind: can we hook up DrDr to a PPA so that you can get a nightly-build/every revision PPA?
11:51 neilv: jeapostrophe: yes. i was doing a variable rename with that
11:51 jeapostrophe: neilv: there was a hang that Kevin recently fixed. are you on the latest?
11:51 neilv: using 5.2.1 released version
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11:51 jonrafkind: jeapostrophe, yea probably
11:52 jeapostrophe: neilv: ya, that would still have the problem
11:52 jeapostrophe: jonrafkind: would it be good?
11:52 neilv: ok, thanks. i'll stop debugging
11:52 jonrafkind: as in a good idea?
11:53 jeapostrophe: jonrafkind: ya
11:53 jonrafkind: chandler, i just now copied the maverick binaries to precise, it will take a few minutes to update in launchpad. let me know if it works
11:53 chandler: cool, sure
11:53 chandler: is that what the natty and oneiric packages are too?
11:53 jonrafkind: jeapostrophe, its a good idea, but the only downside is there is a size limit on the number of packages/files you can have in launchpad, currently at 2gb
11:54 jonrafkind: so if we upload a ppa for each commit we would quickly hit that limit I think
11:54 jonrafkind: chandler, yea
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11:54 jeapostrophe: jonrafkind: we could have latest from the last week, latest from the last day, and newest, or some other progression
11:55 jeapostrophe: jonrafkind: if you care about this, I'm happy to do what you'd need on DrDr
11:55 jonrafkind: launchpad stores every version of every package for some reason
11:55 jonrafkind: you can't just overwrite old packages
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11:56 jeapostrophe: so what do you do when you reach the limit? you have to remove everything?
11:56 jonrafkind: no idea :p
11:56 jonrafkind: https://launchpad.net/~plt/+archive/racket/+packages
11:56 jonrafkind: right now we are at 74mb/2gb
11:56 jeapostrophe: :)
11:56 jonrafkind: whats even stranger is there is no way to get those old packages out of the system, they are just in launchpad taking up space
11:57 jonrafkind: hm I think..
11:57 jonrafkind: maybe im wrong about this
11:57 chandler: I've seen other PPAs that do daily builds
11:57 chandler: I think handbrake is one I had installed at one point
11:57 jonrafkind: ok maybe old builds are removed
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12:22 racketnoob: hello, community!
12:22 racketnoob: hello, eli! What's up??
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12:23 racketnoob: hello, neilv, thank you for yesterday's explanation regarding define and let
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12:24 racketnoob: hello, noelw, thank you for choosing Scala instead of Racket, hehehe!
12:24 noelw: Errr?
12:24 neilv: racketnoob: thank you for not trolling on the racket channel
12:24 racketnoob: And last but not least, thank you, samth for kicking me out few day ago
12:25 racketnoob: neilv: hehehe, funny! :)
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12:25 racketnoob: what errr?
12:28 noelw: Oh, I wondered why you wrote that, but now I see you're trolling.
12:28 racketnoob: no, i have a good reason, actually
12:29 racketnoob: you are behind "untyped" - a little software manufacture that wrote some web apps in racket, no?
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12:44 racketnoob: hey, community: neilv is a real (and only) Racket consultant in the world! Can you belive, he made numerous web apps in Racket, but unfortunately he cannot tell as nothing about it because "his clients are very secretive about technique used to produce this mastery"! Hahahaha, good joke, neilv!
12:44 racketnoob: Probably the number of neil's clients are single-digit: one. Neil himself, hehehehe!
12:45 racketnoob: samth, i'm not kicket out yet. How's that so? HAHAHAHA
12:47 neilv: racketnoob: the field of psychiatric medicine has come a long way. perhaps treatment is now available for your condition
12:47 racketnoob: maybe, but I can tell for you the same, hehehe
12:48 racketnoob: look, I just like to drink alcohol a little more
12:48 racketnoob: :)
12:49 neilv: racketnoob: you should drink at a pub, not in other people's workplaces
12:49 racketnoob: Come on, neilv, admit: how many web-apps in Racket you wrote for your "numerous" clients?
12:49 neilv: i'm not going to feed the troll
12:50 racketnoob: oh, but then we never gonna know :)
12:50 (nick) noelw -> noelw_away
12:51 racketnoob: i'm not a troll. I was despised and rejected by community on racket users group
12:51 racketnoob: When I arrived, I had the best intentions
12:52 racketnoob: but shriram and other jerks kicked me from there etc, etc
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13:06 racketnoob: neilv said: "In any case, I think that your repeated criticisms on the Racket list are culturally inappropriate.  I'm sorry that you apparently were disappointed by Racket.  But I don't know why you would continue to hang out on the Racket list and comment on Racket, if you don't have anything good to say.  It is like you keep walking into someone's home to insult them in front of their guests. "    But neilv, it is not anybody's
13:06 racketnoob: Any critics about documentation or something are extremely unwelcome!
13:07 racketnoob: people are banned when thes say so!
13:07 racketnoob: etc etc
13:08 racketnoob: and now, i'm gonna drink my booze. Cheers, neilv!
13:12 (quit) realitygrill: Quit: realitygrill
13:12 racketnoob: But neilv, it is not anybody's home. It's a public place!
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13:14 neilv: i was so enraptured with racket, that i forgot about lunch
13:14 (quit) neilv: Quit: Leaving
13:15 racketnoob: hurry up, neilv, the (ghost) clients expecting your consultant expertise, hahahahaha!
13:16 offby1: that's saying something
13:17 racketnoob: look who's telling me about psyhiatric treatment: the man who's dreaming about clients hehehe
13:19 racketnoob: nonexisting clients
13:19 racketnoob: AHAHAHAHAHA
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13:26 racketnoob: oh... yet another "sound of silence" channel
13:29 racketnoob: And you read your Emily Dickinson,  And I my Robert Frost,  And we note our place with bookmarkers  That measure what we've lost.  Like a poem poorly written  We are verses out of rhythm,  Couplets out of rhyme,  In syncopated time  Lost in the dangling conversation  And the superficial sighs,  Are the borders of our lives.
13:30 racketnoob: people, this lyrics are beautiful, just like Lisp (not racket)
13:30 racketnoob: just like Shen
13:30 racketnoob: do you agree?
13:32 racketnoob: if I were Bill Gates, i would spend $10 000 000 to promotion of Shen - most beautiful lisp ever!
13:32 eli: racketnoob: Please stop.
13:32 racketnoob: hey, eli. once-only?
13:33 racketnoob: do you remember?
13:33 eli: What?
13:33 racketnoob: you said last time that you will write something on that
13:33 racketnoob: macro once-only
13:34 eli: Oh right.  It turned up useless for my class, too many subtelties.
13:34 racketnoob: ohhh... c'mon :( Now i will never learn
13:34 racketnoob: :(((
13:35 racketnoob: please, i'll buy you a trip to adriatic coast if you explain me that macro
13:35 racketnoob: :))
13:36 racketnoob: you can spend a few days with me, drinking wine and enjoy beautiful woman :)
13:36 eli: racketnoob: Here's what I had: http://tmp.barzilay.org/x
13:36 eli: But to got all the way through, it could just as well do the nested quasiquote thing.
13:37 racketnoob: wow!!!!!! thanks, i'm going to read this right now! Many thanks!
13:37 racketnoob: you are wonderful guy, eli. You derserve that trip!
13:38 eli: racketnoob: How about not pissing off everyone instead?
13:38 racketnoob: oh... that will be much harder for me to manage :)
13:39 racketnoob: no, wait! Are they really pissed off because of me??? I can't believe!
13:44 tauntaun: It's almost out of a Batman movie...
13:44 racketnoob: ?
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13:56 rostayob: racketnoob: adriatic cost? where are you from? i hoper you're not italian
13:56 rostayob: *hope
13:56 racketnoob: no, our coast is nicer than ugly italian coast hehehehe
13:57 rostayob: uff, ok.
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14:15 jonrafkind: chandler, did it work?
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14:19 chandler: jonrafkind: I'm trying now.
14:20 chandler: jonrafkind: ffi-lib: couldn't open "libjpeg.so.62" (libjpeg.so.62: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
14:20 jonrafkind: doing what, opening drracket?
14:21 chandler: Yup.
14:21 jonrafkind: fffffffffffffff
14:21 chandler: (Sorry, forgot to say that.)
14:21 jonrafkind: what jpeg do you have on your system
14:21 chandler: ii  libjpeg8                               8c-2ubuntu7                                    Independent JPEG Group's JPEG runtime library (dependency package)
14:21 jonrafkind: ls /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libjpeg*
14:21 chandler: Ah, there's a libjpeg62 as well.
14:22 jonrafkind: aha
14:22 jonrafkind: well we should test if drracket can use jpeg8 i guess
14:22 chandler: Installing libjpeg62 makes things work.
14:22 jonrafkind: ok
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14:23 chandler: the default distribution-installed package has /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libjpeg.so.8 .
14:23 jonrafkind: i can make jpeg62 a dependancy for racket
14:23 jonrafkind: oh my lord, aptitude just segfaulted
14:23 offby1: how will you upgrade to the fixed version?!
14:24 offby1 chases his own tail
14:24 jonrafkind: holy hell.. cmon ubuntu. not today
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14:25 chandler: offby1: with apt-get, of course
14:25 chandler rarely ever uses aptitude
14:25 jonrafkind: hm can apt-get search?
14:25 offby1: chandler: quit being so sensible
14:26 chandler: jonrafkind: not like aptitude, no.
14:26 chandler: aptitude search is the only thing I use it for.
14:26 jonrafkind: aha i just had to do 'apt-get update' and now it works
14:27 jonrafkind: ok so libjpeg62 is a package in my version of ubuntu as well, so i can add it as a dependancy
14:27 chandler: Yes, it seems to go back quite a ways.
14:28 jonrafkind: well this has been useful
14:28 jonrafkind: whats funny is my package updater thing hasn't shown up for a few days because apt was segfaulting, but i had no idea since there was no way to notify me, i only found out when i just ran aptitude on the command line
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14:33 samth: jonrafkind: this problem showed up a week ago, maybe
14:34 samth: we need to get mflatt to add 8 as a possible version of libjpeg
14:34 samth: i hear you know where his office is :)
14:34 jonrafkind: ok well ill just make a bug report
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15:42 stamourv: jonrafkind: Re search: Try `apt-cache search'.
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16:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/EU-a4Q
16:00 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fix types for `regexp-match*' and `regexp-match-positions*'. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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17:45 jamessan: jonrafkind: recent git supports using libjpeg8, since I was running into that same problem with Debian's official packages :)
17:45 jonrafkind: oh
17:45 jamessan: jonrafkind: http://patch-tracker.debian.org/patch/series/view/racket/5.2.1+dfsg1-4/0003-racket-draw-Check-for-libjpeg.so.8-on-unix.patch is the patch I'm including until the next release
17:48 jamessan: I'm surprised samth didn't remember that since I had discussed the issue with him, although that was more targetted at better detection of this problem at build time
17:49 jamessan: I've been meaning to submit another patch for libpng15 since that switch will be happening soon in Debian.  not sure if it already has for Ubuntu.
17:50 jamessan: I just wanted to verify racket/draw already supported libpng15 first, which I think I ended up seeing that it did
18:07 samth: jonrafkind: can you close that bug report, then?
18:07 samth: jamessan: i just didn't remember the resolution
18:08 jonrafkind: jamessan, that patch is in racket, right?
18:09 jonrafkind: good work
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18:21 clynderman: Why is there a 'Tabs' menu by default in any instance of frame:basic%?
18:22 jamessan: jonrafkind: yup.
18:23 clynderman: For instance: http://pastebin.com/q9equrC9
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18:25 samth: clynderman: i don't know, but probably you're meant to provide your own menu bar content
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18:27 clynderman: samth, I'm actually doing that, using the frame:standard-menus-mixin.
18:27 clynderman: http://pastebin.com/rDv9hdn5
18:29 samth: ah, i see
18:29 clynderman: It doesn't in any fashion eliminate the tab menu, (and the standard-menus mixin doesn't provide the Save and Save as menu-items the documentation suggests it should)
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18:30 clynderman: I'm certain I'm misunderstanding something, I just don't know what
18:31 samth: clynderman: i'm not sure what either
18:31 samth: but i don't think their are any GUI experts in the channel at the moment
18:31 samth: you might ask on the users mailing list
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21:08 neilv: ok, i made html-template library produce an intermediate representation that response/html-template can use better, and i also implemented the new html-template %-somethings. http://paste.lisp.org/display/128435
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21:39 asumu: clynderman: it adds the 'Tabs' menu because frame:basic<%> provides window management using groups.
21:40 asumu: (if you don't need that, you probably don't want to use frame:basic-mixin)
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