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00:05 dyoo: hi everyone.  slatex question: does anyone know how to get line numbers to show up in an slatex document?
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00:23 dyoo: Darn.  Well, it is Friday/Saturday night.  Ah well.  Good night!
00:24 mithos28: night
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01:55 Diarmid: asumu: My name is Irish, yes.  The mythology part, I'm less sure of.  Diarmid means "without envy".
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06:37 roelof: Hello, Is there a example somewhere how I can deal with input errors like this one : ( functie 'parameter1 )
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06:57 roelof: Nobody who can help me to make this function bullet-proof : http://pastebin.com/v7sKU6vr
07:01 bremner: roelof: you need to think about which tests to do first.
07:02 bremner: also using eq? for strings is frowned upon.
07:03 roelof: oke, I can better use string=? "" for empty strings ???
07:03 bremner: about my first comment, what about first testing if it is a string, then you can use string= if it is.
07:03 bremner: but you can take advantage of the the fact that cond tests are evaluated from the top
07:03 roelof: As far as I can see I have to test for empty strings and for bad input as not closed strings
07:04 roelof: bremmer : At the list they said if I say String -> String I don't have to test for strings
07:06 roelof: if somebody do I input otherwise as strings I't not my problem
07:07 roelof: I try to understand and practise how I can desgign functions by reading the this book : http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/htdp2e-part1.html
07:10 roelof: bremmer : are you still here ?
07:12 bremner: well, I'm not a contract expert, but you should be consistent. You _do_ test for string in you second clause.
07:13 roelof: oke, that;s my fault then
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07:15 roelof: but my question stands how can I check for failty input ?
07:16 bremner: I don't understand your question anymore. If you can assume the input is a string, what are you worried about?
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07:30 roelof: I worried about for example wrong number of arguments, forget () around the function
07:31 roelof: one ' instead of two '' around the string
07:32 bremner: that makes it a symbol, not a string
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07:36 roelof: Oke, symbol is not handeled yet in the book that I read
07:36 roelof: maybe I have to wait till that chapter is handeled
07:37 roelof: I think I want to do things to quick
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09:47 tim-brown: Im running drracket on windows 7
09:48 tim-brown: Counting the factors of all the huggable primes under 2 billion
09:48 tim-brown: Or something like that for project Euler
09:49 tim-brown: In a long, tight loop, windows claims that racket has stopped responding
09:49 tim-brown: And all I can do is restart racket
09:50 tim-brown: Is there anything I can do to either
09:50 tim-brown: Make windows more patient
09:51 tim-brown: Or make a  nop call that will allow racket to service whatever message it's not retaining to?
09:52 tim-brown: That's drracket, mind
09:52 tim-brown: Racket command line is fine (so far?)
09:53 tim-brown: PING: is my irc client working?
09:54 tim-brown: Rudybot: what is truth?
09:55 tim-brown: rudybot: #t
09:55 rudybot: tim-brown: your sandbox is ready
09:55 rudybot: tim-brown: ; Value: #t
09:56 tim-brown: At least someone sees me
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09:57 m4burns: tim-brown: The UI runs in a separate thread, so it shouldn't freeze up while executing unrelated code. Perhaps you've found a bug.
09:58 tim-brown: I can run a second editor with file: new
09:58 tim-brown: That freezes when I run my code, rather than the window with the definitions in
09:58 (quit) noam: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
09:59 tim-brown: first noticed in 5.2
09:59 tim-brown: Upgraded to 5.2.1 exhibits same behaviour
10:00 tim-brown: (or similar)
10:01 tim-brown: It's also the fact that windows is overkeen to kill it  off
10:01 m4burns: Hmm. There was probably some change in an interaction between the read-evaluate-print-loop and the window drawing. Others can probably shed more light on that.
10:01 tim-brown: Once I've got the"not responding"error box it's game over
10:02 m4burns: If you just want to run your computation without Windows trying to kill it, you can use the command-line interpreter, racket.exe.
10:02 tim-brown: I'm happy to wait for my result without any interaction
10:03 tim-brown: Laziness alert: this is at home.haven't bothered to set up paths/environment on win 7
10:03 tim-brown: So I want a quick  run on Dr ra Clee
10:03 tim-brown: Drracket
10:05 m4burns: I don't think it requires any setup, just run C:\path\to\racket.exe C:\path\to\source.rkt
10:05 m4burns: Sorry I can't be of better assistance with the freeze problem.
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10:06 tim-brown: Are you used to the windows command line?
10:06 tim-brown: No history between windows
10:06 m4burns: No, last time I used it was when Windows XP was new :)
10:06 tim-brown: No CD ~Tim
10:07 m4burns: yuck
10:07 tim-brown: No focus following that ever works
10:08 tim-brown: If you've only experienced windows I guess it's tolerable
10:08 tim-brown: Otherwise I want to touch as little as possible... Ie click on Stanley
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10:09 tim-brown: Drracket (Swype doesn't do well spelling it)
10:09 tim-brown: Click orb
10:09 tim-brown: Click on drracket and choose the module
10:10 tim-brown: Even x complains on occasions because of the unresponsiveness, but it doesn't kill the whole show!
10:11 m4burns: I'm going to see if I can reproduce this.
10:12 tim-brown: It shul
10:12 tim-brown: Shouldn't be more than just
10:13 tim-brown: (for ((I (in-naturals))) #t)
10:15 m4burns: that doesn't cause my interactions window to freeze on Racket 5.2.1 (Linux, X11)
10:15 chandler: What version of Racket are you using?
10:16 m4burns: chandler: < tim-brown> Upgraded to 5.2.1 exhibits same behaviour
10:16 chandler: Oh, I missed that.
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10:27 chandler: tim-brown: I can't reproduce the problem in Racket 5.2.1 on Windows 7.
10:28 chandler: tim-brown: When you downloaded the installer, did you choose "Windows x86" or "Windows x64"?
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10:39 tim-brown: Let me do this fro
10:39 tim-brown: .scr
10:39 tim-brown: Scratch later
10:41 tim-brown: It also involves a make-vector (20000000]
10:43 chandler: tim-brown: If you are able to reproduce the problem, please submit a bug report. You can do so from within DrRacket (Help -> Submit Bug Report), and include the code in the steps to reproduce.
10:44 tim-brown: Wilco
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11:40 jetkoten: hi all
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14:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/XxEitw
14:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] turtles: better error message and improve docs - Asumu Takikawa
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14:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/6-MeKQ
14:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fixed an internal function contract - Neil Toronto
14:53 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Added unstable/gui/snip (provides snip-canvas%) and docs - Neil Toronto
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16:51 JohnnyL: how can i turn a racket app into a win32 and linux binary?
16:51 samth: JohnnyL, see the 'raco exe' command
16:51 JohnnyL: samthk: thanks
16:55 JohnnyL: hm, i suppose one would use sockets on native client using a browser as a front end.
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17:41 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/-HS0Vw
17:41 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fixed graphical glitches: - Neil Toronto
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17:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/t9xtOA
17:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] separated the define-judgment-form implementation (and bind-withs) - Robby Findler
17:42 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] added define-extended-judgment-form to Redex - Robby Findler
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20:23 jonrafkind: http://tagide.com/blog/2012/03/research-in-programming-languages/ the guy has a reasonable point, although i only read like 1/5th of it..
20:27 asumu: jonrafkind: I plan to read the rest of it, but so far I'm thinking this applies to other fields of CS too. Why just PL? I think relevance in industry isn't always the right yardstick.
20:27 asumu: Not just CS, but probably other areas of engineering.
20:28 jonrafkind: hm like what
20:28 jonrafkind: cars?
20:28 asumu: e.g., I've read construction practices in Europe can be much more advanced than what we have in the US.
20:28 jonrafkind: well id have to just accept anything you say about that, i dont know about anything besides PL
20:28 jonrafkind: as far as research vs industry goes
20:28 asumu: Okay sure. Also, I don't necessarily know what I'm talking about. I'm not a civil engineer. :)
20:29 jonrafkind: i think our view of PL is a little too short though, there has been a lot of research in the past 15 years that hasn't really made it to mainstream languages
20:29 jonrafkind: it might take another 15-20 years before we see those things in practice
20:30 jonrafkind: well I guess thats the PL persons hope :p
20:30 jonrafkind: otherwise we're just wasting time..
20:31 asumu: Oh wow, I didn't realize this post was by Crista Lopes
20:32 jonrafkind: whos that
20:32 jonrafkind: never heard of him
20:33 asumu: I think 'her'. She works on AspectJ along with a bunch of other people.
20:34 jonrafkind: ah
20:34 jonrafkind: aspectj.. i studied that a bit at northeastern
20:34 jonrafkind: oh whats his face researches that.. leighberher
20:34 asumu: I think her PHP argument is quite weak. If you look at the page she links to, they have a bunch of unsubstantiated claims too. Like "Massively Reduces Your Server Bills"
20:34 jonrafkind: i found aspectj and demeterj ultra boring
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20:39 asumu: Okay, I read the whole thing. I'm confused what the ultimate point of the article was. More scientific validation or less?
20:39 jonrafkind: i commented on the hackernews thread, but did python's list comprehensions really come from haskell?
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20:48 samth: asumu, jonrafkind: she got her phd from northeastern
20:48 jonrafkind: did you know her?
20:48 samth: no
20:48 samth: she's much older than me
20:48 samth: she was karl's student
20:48 asumu: jonrafkind: Well, Haskell had them before Python. Though other languages had them before Haskell, IIRC.
20:49 jonrafkind: i believe that, but i wonder if python would have had list comprehensions even if haskell didnt
20:49 samth: asumu, i think she thinks we should stop working on pl's, because either (a) no one cares, they just use php or (b) we have no new ideas
20:49 samth: jonrafkind, i think they explicitly took them from haskell
20:49 asumu: Maybe. A language called SETL had them, and apparently Python/ABC was inspired by SETL.
20:49 jonrafkind: oh ok
20:50 asumu: samth: It sounded to me like she would be happy to work on PLs if the community had different standards for novelty/merit.
20:50 jonrafkind: maybe PLs have hit a sort of sweet spot where modern languages are powerful enough to get stuff done but if they were any more complex people wouldn't use them
20:50 samth: jonrafkind, i doubt that's the case
20:50 asumu: I'd like Java to be a bit more complex.
20:50 jonrafkind: i mean most likely 99% of programmers would never understand the macro system
20:50 samth: people said that about Java
20:51 asumu: (and less so in other ways)
20:51 samth: but then scala came out
20:51 nilyaK: PLs?
20:51 jonrafkind: programming languages
20:51 samth: jonrafkind, i agree about the details of the Racket macro system
20:51 samth: but (a) most people don't need to
20:51 nilyaK: oic, I was like pluto isn't a planet and what are we talking about.
20:51 samth: and (b) that's because we haven't figured out the right macro system yet
20:52 jonrafkind: I think scala is a reasonable language, it could probably be polished up a little to make some things easier
20:52 jonrafkind: like the type inference engine could be better
20:54 jonrafkind: the only feature I really want thats not usually present in most PL's is a macro system
20:54 jonrafkind: even a crummy language like C with a proper macro system might be reasonable
20:57 asumu: I'm not sure how C with a macro system would do. Seems like you could easily break the macro abstractions.
20:58 jonrafkind: well whatever, im just saying you can get pretty far if you have a powerful macro system
20:59 asumu: Yeah, but this hits the brick wall of convincing programmers to use your macro system.
21:00 jonrafkind: clojure seems to be popularizing macros a bit
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