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00:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/hbUIGw
00:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Big newline at EOF scan. - Eli Barzilay
00:33 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Mailmap mapping for dvanhorn. - Eli Barzilay
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05:13 Kaylin hopes so./
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08:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/0UCKMA
08:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] move the redex scrbl files into a scribblings subcollection and adjust timeouts - Robby Findler
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12:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Sort paths before fuzzing, to make drdr runs reproducible. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
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12:02 samth: randomness is hard
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13:27 yin: weird question... how do I convert char to string? There is no function called char->string
13:30 samth: yin: with `string'
13:30 samth: rudybot: (string #\a)
13:30 rudybot: samth: ; Value: "a"
13:30 samth: yin: like that
13:30 yin: It works. thank you Sam!
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14:23 PfhorSlayer: I have a list that when I do (printf "~a" the-list) it prints "(('other 2) ('test 0))".  I also have a function: (define (get-val name) (assoc name the-list)).  Why is it that when I call (get-val 'other) it returns #f?
14:24 chandler: PfhorSlayer: Remember that 'other is shorthand for (quote other).
14:24 chandler: rudybot: eval (printf "~a" '((other 2) (test 0)))
14:24 rudybot: chandler: your sandbox is ready
14:24 rudybot: chandler: ; stdout: "((other 2) (test 0))"
14:24 chandler: rudybot: eval (printf "~a" '(((quote other) 2) ((quote test) 0)))
14:24 rudybot: chandler: ; stdout: "(((quote other) 2) ((quote test) 0))"
14:25 PfhorSlayer: Oh, so that means that the car of those elements in that list is actually (quote test) etc?
14:25 chandler: Yes.
14:25 PfhorSlayer: rudybot: eval (eq? (quote test) (quote test))
14:25 rudybot: PfhorSlayer: your sandbox is ready
14:25 rudybot: PfhorSlayer: ; Value: #t
14:25 chandler: Not quite sure why rudybot isn't printing it that way.
14:25 PfhorSlayer: but I'm still comparing the same thing though, right?
14:26 PfhorSlayer: rudybot: eval (assoc (quote test) (list (list (quote test) 0)))
14:26 rudybot: PfhorSlayer: ; Value: (test 0)
14:26 PfhorSlayer: rudybot: eval (assoc 'test (list (list (quote test) 0)))
14:26 rudybot: PfhorSlayer: ; Value: (test 0)
14:27 PfhorSlayer: rudybot: eval (assoc 'test (list (list 'test 0)))
14:27 rudybot: PfhorSlayer: ; Value: (test 0)
14:27 PfhorSlayer: I don't understand why it's not working then?
14:28 asumu: PfhorSlayer: It's probably getting quoted twice
14:28 asumu: rudybot: (quote 'other)
14:28 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
14:28 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: (quote other)
14:28 chandler: rudybot: eval (equal? (list (list 'test 0)) (list (list ''test 0)))
14:28 rudybot: chandler: ; Value: #f
14:29 asumu: Hmm.
14:29 PfhorSlayer: But when I print the list it's not showing it being quoted twice?
14:29 chandler: PfhorSlayer: (list 'test) builds a list of one element, which is the symbol test. (list ''test) builds a list of one element, which is a list of the symbols quote and test. The latter is the kind of thing you have.
14:29 chandler: When you see 'foo, always read that as (quote foo).
14:31 PfhorSlayer: right, but what it's printing out is that the list is ( (list (quote other) 2) (list (quote test) 0) )
14:31 chandler: No, not at all.
14:32 PfhorSlayer: What am I missing then?
14:32 chandler: The list that it printed it is one that's equal? to the one returned by (list (list (quote (quote other)) 2) (list (quote (quote test)) 0)) .
14:33 chandler: What version of Racket are you using?
14:33 PfhorSlayer: 5.2.1
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14:34 chandler: Oh, this prints differently in DrRacket than at the regular Racket REPL.
14:35 chandler: rudybot: eval (print-reader-abbreviations #t)
14:35 rudybot: chandler: Done.
14:35 chandler: rudybot: eval (printf "~a" (list (list (quote (quote other)) 2) (list (quote (quote test)) 0)))
14:35 rudybot: chandler: ; stdout: "(((quote other) 2) ((quote test) 0))"
14:35 chandler: Grr.
14:38 chandler: PfhorSlayer: Try evaluating the expression I just asked rudybot to evaluate in your DrRacket REPL.
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14:39 PfhorSlayer: I just rewrote the function as a macro expansion
14:40 PfhorSlayer: and it worked when I wrote the value I was testing as 'test-val
14:40 PfhorSlayer: chandler: (('other 2) ('test 0))
14:40 chandler: Right. See how the ' there indicates that I wrote (quote (quote other)) and not (quote other) ?
14:41 PfhorSlayer: So is it safe to always assume that if I see " 'something " that should be read as (quote (quote something)) ?
14:42 PfhorSlayer: and if I just see "something" it is (quote something)?
14:42 chandler: Hm, not quote. It should be read as (quote something), which is the result of evaluating (quote (quote something)).
14:42 chandler: Heh. I meant "not quite" there.
14:42 PfhorSlayer: OH!
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14:43 PfhorSlayer: I think I see, since you're passing the quote expression a symbol that you don't want evaluated
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15:08 PfhorSlayer: is there a way to do something like map over multiple lists (that are the same length) at once?
15:09 samth: PfhorSlayer: like this
15:09 PfhorSlayer: and then run the lambda for the corresponding elements of all the lists at each index
15:09 samth: rudybot: (map + (list 1 2 3) (list 4 5 6))
15:09 rudybot: samth: your sandbox is ready
15:09 rudybot: samth: ; Value: (5 7 9)
15:09 samth: PfhorSlayer: whee
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15:10 PfhorSlayer: oh, duh! I missed the "..." in the documentation for map
15:10 PfhorSlayer: awesome, thanks
15:10 PfhorSlayer: and the example, apparently.
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18:07 chromaticwt: how do I undefine?
18:08 asumu: chromaticwt: I don't think Racket lets you. Why do you want to do that?
18:08 chromaticwt: It's just nice.
18:08 chromaticwt: guile let's me.
18:08 asumu: I don't see what you mean by "it's just nice".
18:09 asumu: If you re-define a variable (in the REPL) it overwrites it, so I don't really see the need to undefine something.
18:09 asumu: (and in modules I don't see the need at all)
18:11 chromaticwt: yes
18:13 chromaticwt: let's say I have helper procedures defined and I decide to do nest the helper procedures within their parent. it's nice to delete the hanging helper procedures. I'm weird too.
18:13 chromaticwt: I'm just tinkering around.
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18:21 PfhorSlayer: are there any good intro documents for the new syntax patterns stuff?
18:22 jonrafkind: not really.. just the syntax/parse docs
18:22 samth: PfhorSlayer: check out: http://docs.racket-lang.org/syntax/stxparse-intro.html
18:22 samth: it has a nice introduction
18:24 PfhorSlayer: Cool, thanks.
18:24 PfhorSlayer: I'm most interested in the features that would make it easy to write syntaxes that let you specify named parameters in any order
18:25 PfhorSlayer: since we do a lot of that stuff and the combinatorial explosion when the number of parameters gets larger than like two gets pretty ridiculous
18:25 samth: PfhorSlayer: see http://docs.racket-lang.org/syntax/Optional_Keyword_Arguments.html and http://docs.racket-lang.org/syntax/More_Keyword_Arguments.html
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18:27 PfhorSlayer: Thank you!
18:29 asumu: chromaticwt: I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean you want to undefine a name so you can re-use it in a nested scope?
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18:47 chromaticwt: asumu: sort of, yeah
18:47 chromaticwt: not that it's really necessary.
18:48 chromaticwt: but it's nice to not have dangling useless functions floating around, I guess.
18:48 chromaticwt: it's ok, I can live without undefine. I was just wondering if I could do it.
18:49 chromaticwt: I don't want to flood the channel anymore with this odd question. :)
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19:13 PfhorSlayer: In a (define-syntax (foo stx) (syntax-case stx () ( (_ init0 ...) stuff-goes-here ) )) expression, how can I raise a syntax error that refers to the location of the expression itself? I want to raise an error if (foo) is called in certain contexts, but I'm not sure how to get the error reporting to show the location where the user tried to call "(foo)"
19:15 samth: (raise-syntax-error #f "message here" stx)
19:15 samth: PfhorSlayer: ^
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19:24 PfhorSlayer: I tried that, it said that stx is being used out of context
19:24 PfhorSlayer: Wait, I didn't try it with #f as the function name param
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19:25 PfhorSlayer: Nope, same issue
19:25 PfhorSlayer: "identifier used out of context in: stx"
19:25 samth: oh, you're putting that in the code you expand to
19:25 samth: you want to just run the `raise--syntax-error' function
19:26 PfhorSlayer: Oh, or I'd have to put it outside of the #'(expanded-stuff-here) expression?
19:26 samth: yes
19:28 PfhorSlayer: hrmph, but in that context the top-level variable I'm reading to see if the function should be allowed doesn't exist
19:29 PfhorSlayer: oh, wait
19:29 PfhorSlayer: I should put it in the fender, right?
19:30 samth: PfhorSlayer: no, the fender is for determining if this clause should even match
19:30 samth: otherwise, it will go to the next clause
19:31 PfhorSlayer: Oh, gotcha
19:31 PfhorSlayer: How can I get to a context where the top-level stuff from the rest of the file exists, then?
19:31 samth: what sort of top-level stuff?
19:32 PfhorSlayer: Above this whole define-syntax, I've got a (define foo -1)
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19:32 samth: you probably need to make that define-for-syntax
19:32 PfhorSlayer: If foo is less than 0, the define-syntax should not be allowed
19:33 PfhorSlayer: ah, define-for-syntax binds at phase level 1
19:33 PfhorSlayer: which is the same phase that the macro expansion is happening at, right?
19:33 samth: yes
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19:43 PfhorSlayer: Okay, that almost works
19:47 PfhorSlayer: The problem now is that I have multiple macros. I'm doing a (define-for-syntax context-valid #f) at the top level, the in the outermost macro I do a (begin (set! context-valid #t) (let ((the-syntax #'(macro stuffs))) (set! context-valid #f) the-syntax)), and in #'(macro stuffs) is where the macro that checks the context-valid variable is located. It appears that the variable is always #f there.
19:47 PfhorSlayer: If I take out the resetting of context-valid to #f, it runs just fine
19:47 PfhorSlayer: ... because it's not actually evaluating the expanded macro until after it's fully expanded
19:47 PfhorSlayer: No, that should still be fine
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19:48 samth: mutation at syntax time is a tricky issue
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19:49 PfhorSlayer: Wait, I think I see why it's doing it... In the let's body, I set context-valid to #f before the last expression which is the-syntax
19:50 PfhorSlayer: So maybe it's not actually evaluating it until the point where I use "the-syntax"?
19:51 samth: is it inside the macro/
19:51 samth: ?
19:52 PfhorSlayer: is what inside the macro?
19:52 samth: what you are asking about?
19:52 samth: the body of the macro is not evaluated until you use the macro
19:53 PfhorSlayer: Right.  So in the macro I'm doing a let that binds a syntax (the expansion of which checks the "context-valid" condition) to "the-syntax"
19:54 PfhorSlayer: before the let, I set context-valid to #t, and in the let's body I set context-valid to #f before returning "the-syntax"
19:54 PfhorSlayer: I'm expecting that during the evaluation of the fully expanded macro, context-valid is #t
19:55 PfhorSlayer: but it appears that it's evaluting the (set! context-valid #f) line before it evaluates "the-syntax"
19:55 samth: if 'the-syntax' is what you are producing, then that's probably right
19:55 samth: but this is hard for me to follow from your description
19:56 PfhorSlayer: I'm sorry, I can write up a little example case if that'd help
19:56 samth: it's not your fault -- this stuff is complicated
19:56 samth: an example would help
19:56 PfhorSlayer: the end result is that I want to have a macro that can only be used inside of another macro
19:57 PfhorSlayer: it is a syntax error to use it in any other context
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20:01 PfhorSlayer: Heh, I just wrote the example case and it works
20:02 PfhorSlayer: I must have messed something up in my real case :)
20:02 PfhorSlayer: https://gist.github.com/1946356
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21:08 iisjmii: Can anybody spot a problem with this line? (define stop (get-ffi-obj "stop" driver (_fun -> _void)))
21:08 iisjmii: 
21:08 iisjmii: I'm loosing sleep over it :) it gives me the error: access disallowed by code inspector to protected variable from module
21:10 offby1 looses an arrow
21:13 chandler: iisjmii: does it say what identifier it is?
21:13 chandler: I think that's a sandbox error
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22:28 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/gmSgJg
22:28 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix error message - Matthew Flatt
22:28 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix problems with place termination - Matthew Flatt
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