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00:32 veer: I am getting "SIGSEGV MAPERR si_code 1 fault on addr (nil)"  can any one give me hint where things could be wrong
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00:33 veer: just for information , I am using ffi to call a function in a lib
00:34 mithos28: It sounds like your function is bad
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00:34 mithos28: Are you sure your pointer isn't the null pointer
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00:35 veer: I am passing null pointer , which is again passed to me in callback , but I am not ref it
00:35 veer: neither foreign func
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00:36 mithos28: might you be passing a null pointer where you are supposed to be passing a pointer or box of a null pointer
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00:36 mithos28: It looks like a dereference of the null pointer
00:37 veer: ok , I'll check again
00:37 veer: thanks
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01:07 mithos28: Is there a simple way to provide many identifiers with the same contract?
01:09 jonrafkind: sounds like a simple macro no?
01:09 mithos28: Yeah, but was wondering if one exists.
01:09 mithos28: For now copy paste is easier, since it will have to be rewritten anyways
01:16 ozzloy: what's better for someone who's never done macros, sicp or htdp?
01:17 mithos28: htdp doesn't do macros AFAIK
01:17 ozzloy: does sicp?
01:17 jonrafkind: i dont think theres any good macro tutorial
01:18 jonrafkind: something I've been meaning to fix one of these days
01:18 mithos28: There is sk's automaton stuff
01:19 ozzloy: huh
01:19 mithos28: http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Papers/Published/sk-automata-macros/paper.pdf
01:19 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/59uwj
01:19 ozzloy: i totally thought htdp or sicp would cover that
01:19 ozzloy: macros
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01:20 mithos28: Macros are too much a scheme thing for either of those books, they just use scheme/racket to teach general cs
01:21 jonrafkind: yea true
01:21 jonrafkind: I guess theres a chapter in dybvig's book about macros
01:21 ozzloy: ok, what about the guide?
01:21 ozzloy: i'm reading through that right now
01:22 ozzloy: fixing spelling errors and stuff
01:22 mithos28: sk's book has a chapter on macros
01:22 mithos28: http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Books/ProgLangs/2007-04-26/plai-2007-04-26.pdf
01:22 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/4n7hdw
01:23 ozzloy: plai was on my radar as well
01:25 ozzloy: thanks
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01:52 ozzloy: ok, here's a better question: what's a good place to learn macros?
01:53 ozzloy: i'm guessing plai's chapter is good, but maybe there's a work more focused on macros?
01:53 mithos28: I used plai
01:53 ozzloy: *nod* ok, i'll give that a shot then
02:04 veer: I downloaded racket 5.2.1 , now the crash seems to have gone when running from console , but in drracket I get
02:05 veer: compile: unbound identifier in the transformer environment (and no #%app syntax transformer is bound
02:05 veer: ) in: #%require
02:05 mithos28: are you using racket or racket/base?
02:05 veer: racket
02:06 mithos28: I'm not sure what you are doing wrong
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02:15 veer: Its seems it a problem in my generic lib , it seemed to work in prv version
02:19 veer: heh , it works in console but not in drracket
02:19 veer: lol
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03:09 veer: Is there a integrated directory browser in DrRacket , so one can just click the file they want
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03:26 hkBst: veer: TIAS
03:34 veer: hkBst: what does TIAS mean?
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06:03 jamessan: veer: Try It And See
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06:18 veer: jamessan: thanks  :)
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11:01 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/NyBJDg
11:01 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust beaucoup places in redex where the source was being - Robby Findler
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12:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/NXThgQ
12:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] pr# 12542 fixed - All symbol types are now allowed across place channels. - Kevin Tew
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12:42 aidy: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127589 < how do I prevent having to provide a separate name for struct-copier?
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12:44 mithos28: aidy: I assume you are trying to do something like if you make a posn struct that you will have a posn-copy form as well
12:45 mithos28: then you need to use syntax-case instead of syntax-rules
12:45 mithos28: this allows you to use full racket instead of just the pattern matching language to describe the macro
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12:46 aidy: mithos28: yes
12:46 mithos28: you can then get the name of the struct and do something like (string->symbol (string-append (symbol->string (syntax-e #'struct-name)) "-copy"))
12:46 mithos28: so begin with learning syntax-case
12:47 aidy: thanks, I will :)
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13:05 jonrafkind: is there a specific name for a run-time system that walks the AST but uses partial evaluation during the compilation phase?
13:05 jonrafkind: maybe partial evaluation is the wrong word, I just mean do the AST lookup at the compilation phase and get a function/object that can be interpreted directly
13:06 jonrafkind: I thought it was meta-circular but I think thats wrong..
13:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/StrpTA
13:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Missing require in docs - Jay McCarthy
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13:55 g1i1ch: Any developers here?
13:57 g1i1ch: Well if there is anyone here that works on racket, I just wanted to report AVG is detecting all the racket executables as trojan horses
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13:59 g1i1ch: I've been using racket for a while now, so I'm sure it's a false detection from a new update, and that it's only coming from racket stuff. Just thought I should say something, AVG should fix it in their next update if one of the developers files a report to them
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14:07 g1i1ch: Anyways, if anyone sees this, someone put it on the mail list so something can be done on it. I'm not a subscriber
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14:26 eli: jonrafkind: constant folding?
14:27 eli: jonrafkind: Also, ping
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14:41 aidy: Could somebody give me a few pointers on how to turn this into a syntax-case macro? I want to automatically generate ids for -copier and -matcher: http://ompldr.org/vY3BjeA
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14:51 Yaniv: hi
14:51 Yaniv: How can i make my racket program to .exe file?
14:52 samth: Yaniv: use the "Create Executable" entry in the "Racket" menu in DrRacket
14:52 (quit) ivan\: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
14:52 samth: or use the 'raco exe' command at the command line
14:53 Yaniv: Thanks :))
14:54 Yaniv: Can you link me to any good sources on learning how to use sockets?
14:55 samth: Yaniv: in racket, or in general?
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14:56 Yaniv: samth : In racket
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14:58 dyoo: aidy: change syntax-rules to syntax-case, and for each of the clauses, explicitely return a syntax object with (syntax ...)
14:58 samth: Yaniv: i would start here: http://pre.racket-lang.org/docs/html/more/
14:59 Yaniv: thanks and good night
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15:00 dyoo: example: http://pastebin.com/jj0daUgr
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15:02 dyoo: aidy: original code with syntax rules looked something like this: http://pastebin.com/qP8DYCaL
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15:08 MarkSoric: Hey guys. Wondering if someone might be kind enough to take a look at something for me. http://pastebin.com/ap4hpHgM
15:09 MarkSoric: I have been given an assignment, part of which, asks me to implement lists in Racket without using any built-in list constructors, selectors, etc.
15:10 MarkSoric: My first approach was to use (define icons (lambda (fund head tail) (fund head tail))) and work from there but it kept failing the submission tests and after I contacted a TA, they said they wanted us to use structures. So here's my go at trying it that way. Still getting 0/10 on my tests but can't for the life of me figure out why. Any ideas? I think I might have a problem with runtimes somewhere not being the correct big-O.
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15:18 bmp: No matter how many config files I attempt to hunt down and obliterate, DrRacket on my Mac comes up by default as #lang scheme. What am I doing wrong here? Where is it getting that default from?
15:19 samth: bmp: open the language dialog (prob Cmd-l)
15:19 samth: then hit the "show more options" button
15:20 samth: then change the "default #lang line"
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15:23 bmp: Got it! Thanks, samth
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16:05 jonrafkind: eli, pong
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16:29 flying_rhino: in racket, what is the best way to create 2d array of integers of arbitrary size?  Must be quick to access and optionally mutable?
16:31 samth: flying_rhino: i would probably just do indexing computations over a 1d array
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16:47 flying_rhino: like create macro so it will look like 2d?
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16:53 samth: flying_rhino: you don't even need a macro
16:53 samth: just a function should do
16:55 stamourv: MarkSoric: Your time complexities look a bit odd.
16:55 MarkSoric: That surprises me not :D Can't really seem to get a handle on Big-Oh. Any of the loops I have should be O(n) I think, not O(log(n)), right?
16:56 stamourv: Yes.
16:56 stamourv: Think of it this way: To (say) find the length of the list, you have to go through the whole list.
16:56 stamourv: Whole list = O(n).
16:56 MarkSoric: The planning of this course is ridiculous. I get three "tokens" that allow me to test three times in 12 hours. If it fails, I get zero feedback. Frustrating! :D
16:57 stamourv: That's odd.
16:58 MarkSoric: Ok.  Now a friend and I were discussing nested loops and he said they were each O(sqrt(n)), which I couldn't really understand. Odd? Tell me about it - I'm at University of Waterloo, which is supposed to be a quasi-Mecca for this type of material! Good thing I'm a math student :P
16:58 MarkSoric: The Racket functional part of the year? Awesome. I love Racket now and I'm pretty sure I always will. c ? yuck (at least for now)
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17:23 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/HbpG1A
17:23 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] change the font in the pink highlighting to avoid some - Robby Findler
17:23 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] move the 'remove all saved bug reports' menu item to the - Robby Findler
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18:28 eli: jonrafkind: ping
18:28 jonrafkind: sup
18:29 eli: Do you not get bug emails?
18:29 jonrafkind: I do
18:29 jonrafkind: which one is mine
18:29 eli: None, I was just surprised that you were surprised that compiling images takes so long.
18:29 jonrafkind: 99% of them have nothing to do with me so I skim them quickly
18:30 jonrafkind: I haven't compiled the entire collections tree in a long time
18:30 jonrafkind: I have my own build script that sets up a handful of collections I care about
18:30 jonrafkind: I was building the entire tree to debug and issue for sukyoung
18:30 jonrafkind: btw how do you run the handin server? racket needs an X11 connection to do gui stuff
18:30 eli: In any case, as I'll post soon, the short story is that you should try to build with -j 1.
18:30 jonrafkind: so I tried to start the handin server but if I logout it dies (the handin server)
18:30 eli: Using 2 cores is pretty bad.
18:30 jonrafkind: so i told her to login to the terminal to the server itself and run the handin server from there and never log out
18:31 jonrafkind: ok 2 cores is bad, please send me a new laptop, thanks
18:31 eli: You're not listening.
18:31 jonrafkind: you mean with 2 cores it shouldnt be so slow?
18:31 jonrafkind: you drew the wrong conclusion
18:31 eli: 2 cores is bad, 1 core is *faster*.
18:31 jonrafkind: aha
18:31 eli: That's why I suggested you use -j 1.
18:32 eli: Re hadnin server: yes, it requires an X connection.
18:32 jonrafkind: well it doesnt matter since I dont build the collection tree that much, so im not likely to remember
18:32 eli: It's most convenient to run it in a VNC session.
18:32 eli: And there's a recent bug about that too.
18:32 jonrafkind: it would have been nice to put that into SETUP or something
18:32 jonrafkind: since it took me 2 hours to figure it out
18:32 eli: (a) It shouldn't be needed.
18:33 eli: (b) Without X you get an immediate error, what took you so long?
18:33 jonrafkind: you dont get an immediate error, thats the thing
18:33 jonrafkind: it runs fine until it tries to run the checker, which is the place that requires racket/gui/base
18:33 jonrafkind: ok it will die immediately if you run with gracket
18:33 jonrafkind: but her students had modified the script to use racket
18:34 jonrafkind: which runs fine, and then when it tries to run the checker it dies with 'need gracket'
18:34 eli: I don't know what the students did -- perhaps they modified the source -- but running it with `racket' will fail immediately.
18:34 jonrafkind: and really the problem was you get the 'need gracket' error the first time. subsequent errors will fail with 'undefined identifier checker in module' thats the issue I was debugging at first
18:35 jonrafkind: so an hour later I realized gracket was needed, and then after some more time I realized an x11 connection (permanent) is needed
18:35 eli: Again, I don't know what they did.
18:35 jonrafkind: also we tried upgrading to 5.2.1 (from 5.0.2) but got some error about make-request/full
18:35 jonrafkind: all they did was change 'gracket' to 'racket' in the start-server script
18:35 eli: Here, I started mine now with: DISPLAY= ./start-server
18:35 jonrafkind: won't it fail once it tries to run the checker?
18:35 eli: And my "start-server" script uses racket: racket -l- handin-server
18:36 eli: And it fails immediately with:
18:36 jonrafkind: thats becuase you are using 5.2.1 or something
18:36 jonrafkind: oh
18:36 eli: Gtk initialization failed for display ""
18:36 jonrafkind: wait with 5.2.1?
18:36 eli: That's with 5.2
18:36 jonrafkind: hm I didnt get that error with 5.2.1, I got an error about make-request/full
18:36 eli: But it's been this way since they gui rewrite.
18:36 jonrafkind: oh well ok because I was using an x11 connection
18:37 jonrafkind: anyway the real point is there is no support for the handin-server
18:37 eli: The request thing is due to changes in the web server, you probably didn't update some code.
18:37 eli: What kind of support are you not getting?
18:38 jonrafkind: no, its 'what kind of support is sukyoung not getting?' and the answer is she comes to me for questions about the handin server, and you can see how much I know about it
18:39 eli: Is she in Utah now?
18:39 jonrafkind: no, korea
18:39 eli: So in that case the lack of support is my personal failure to keep up with my email, since she asked me about it too.
18:39 jonrafkind: ya
18:40 eli: That has very little to do with the handin server though.
18:40 jonrafkind: ???????????????????/
18:40 jonrafkind: you're the one that wrote it. you're the one that understands it. you're directly related to all of this
18:40 eli: If you see some obvious text that should be added in some obvious place in the docs, then feel free.
18:46 samth: eli: your bug email didn't show -j 1 being faster than -j 2
18:46 samth: which is a problem i've also noticed recently for some cases
18:46 eli: samth: I'll file those two shortly.
18:46 samth: eli: ok
18:47 samth: eli: one fun thing to try is to take a fully built tree, and run 'raco setup -D -j N' for various N
18:47 samth: 1 is the fastest
18:47 samth: and as it gets above the number of cores, it gets much much slower
18:48 samth: i emailed tewk and mflatt about this
18:48 samth: tewk was not that surprised, and mflatt didn't say anything
18:48 eli: samth: That's what I did, and the numbers are pretty bad.
18:49 eli: -j 2 is about twice slower than -j 1.
18:49 samth: i'll forward you my email
18:49 eli: (If tewk was not surprised by it then it makes it worse...)
18:49 samth: tewk thought that it was the overhead of place startup
18:54 eli: samth: I very strongly doubt that...
18:55 samth: and of communication -- sorry, forgot that
18:55 samth: but i sent you the relevant emails
18:56 eli: Yes, I saw that.  But I'm running a proper build-from-scratch, and having twice the absolute time for a `-j 2' build is more than some communication overhead...
18:56 samth: oh, ok
18:56 samth: then you misunderstood what i said earlier
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18:57 samth: i am not seeing those results at all
18:58 eli: That's what I thought.
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19:53 Sicp: in Beginning Student lang, why doesn't DrRacket show those helpful arrows pointing to all occurrences of a variable?
19:55 Sicp: actually, I see now that it doesn't show them whichever lang I choose, but they did exist in the past
19:55 Sicp: plus, I can't go to preferences, it just crashes every single time, I've submitted a bug report about that
19:56 Sicp: coincidentally, whenever I do `ctrl + ;` it crashes as well, now I see that that's the shortcut for preferences
19:56 Sicp: I'm on Arch
20:01 Sicp: and DrRacket is version 5.2.1
20:01 Sicp: it's too sexy of a software to fuck up in this manner
20:02 (quit) yoklov: Quit: computer sleeping
20:03 Sicp: what's all this racket!
20:03 Sicp: :OLOL
20:03 jonrafkind: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
20:03 Sicp: :OOLOOL
20:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/yIn_9g
20:18 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] added Racket logo by John & Neil - Robby Findler
20:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/VUzKLQ
20:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] actually added the images this time - Robby Findler
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21:38 danlndi: ffi question...
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21:39 danlndi: how do I declare a _fun that takes a int pointer that is always NULL?
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22:57 jetkoten: hi all
22:58 jetkoten: working my way through htdp 2e and one q seems to be working opposite to what i think it should
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23:02 jetkoten: anyone there?
23:03 jetkoten: hmmm paste.lisp.org says it put my code paste here, but i don't see it...
23:03 DanBurton: yo
23:04 DanBurton: just send us the link
23:04 jetkoten: ahh one sec
23:04 jetkoten: thanks
23:06 jetkoten: can't seem to get it to give me a link :)
23:06 jetkoten: window goes blank... it's just one line that's troubling me... ok to paste one line in free text, or you know another pastebin that's good?
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23:09 DanBurton: go ahead and paste it here
23:09 DanBurton: I personally use http://hpaste.org but that's because I'm a Haskeller
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23:11 jetkoten: thanks
23:11 jetkoten: (if (<= 0 in) (- 10 in) (- in 20))
23:11 jetkoten: seems to do the exact opposite of what i'm trying to do
23:11 jetkoten: if in is 3, result is 7
23:11 jetkoten: i want it to be -17
23:11 DanBurton: jetkoten: right, this is one thing to get used to with racket
23:12 jetkoten: which thing?
23:12 DanBurton: when you see (<= 0 in), you should think "0 <= in"
23:12 jetkoten: it does work when i reverse the < to >
23:12 DanBurton: 0 <= 3 is clearly true, hence it takes the first branch (- 10 3) = 7
23:12 jetkoten: or actually <= to >=
23:13 jetkoten: i have them backwards in the if then?
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23:13 jetkoten: i am new to prefix notation... :)
23:13 DanBurton: it's a common mistake to see (<= 0 3) and think of it as "less than 0...does 3 fit this description?" but that's WRONG wrong wrong :)
23:13 jetkoten: hahaha
23:14 jetkoten: that did fix it
23:14 DanBurton: actually, racket has some nifty syntax to get around prefix notation for these sorts of things
23:14 DanBurton: (in . <= . 0)
23:15 jetkoten: funny i tried even reversing signs but didn't see that one!
23:15 DanBurton: (10 . - . 3)
23:15 DanBurton: etc
23:15 jetkoten: i'll have to check that out
23:15 jetkoten: just taking the baby steps now... :)
23:15 DanBurton: jetkoten: are you learning Racket for a class or just for fun?
23:16 jetkoten: best beginner programming book i've seen, and i'm enjoying the bsl and not having to deal with lots of boilerplate code and all
23:16 jetkoten: absolutely just for fun
23:16 DanBurton: nice
23:16 jetkoten: been looking at haskell too
23:16 jetkoten: erlang
23:16 jetkoten: trying to get something to click :)
23:16 jetkoten: scheme is working best so far i'd say
23:16 DanBurton: Racket's definitely the simplest...the only trick is to get used to prefix notation for *everything*
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23:17 jetkoten: y i thought i had a decent handle on the old prefix notation until tonight and that mistake!
23:17 jetkoten: :)
23:17 DanBurton: I personally like Haskell the best though /ducks
23:17 jetkoten: hahaha
23:17 jetkoten: i figure i'll have to get back to it, seems too esoteric for me right now
23:18 DanBurton: this channel is usually livelier during the day; probably because various professors and grad students hang out here while they're on campus
23:19 DanBurton: "the day" US time, that is
23:19 jetkoten: oh yeah, makes sense... i've only been here twice, both at night 'cause that's been when i was free and it's been not as lively
23:20 jetkoten: there are a lot of great haskell learning resources i've found here and there, but for me it's just not making sense the way scheme seems to
23:20 jetkoten: ... and i've even tried looking at some of the CL stuff too now that i've learned a little scheme and even it doesn't seem as suitable for me right now
23:21 jetkoten: very happy there is racket (and #racket) :), great resources
23:21 DanBurton: #haskell is quite lively :) and I highly recommend http://learnyouahaskell.com for starting out in Haskell
23:22 DanBurton: not to detract from Racket, of course. :)
23:23 DanBurton: the cool thing about Racket is it is so natural; all you have to learn is s-expressions and you can do pretty much anything.
23:23 jetkoten: y it's a great channel, i just get lost in all the details i have to keep in order to think in haskell... it does interest me though, so i know i'll check it out again in more detail. i just feel like htdp is really giving me a great grounding on the absolute fundamentals
23:23 jetkoten: i'm interested in exploring the web capabilities of racket too
23:23 jetkoten: and i have to figure out what continuations are all about also
23:23 DanBurton: definitely, htdp is a great start to programming in general
23:24 jetkoten: i've had a little toy pet project in mind for a year or so now and have tried to get it going in any language i've looked at... closest to achieving so far is ruby
23:24 jetkoten: i do like the way the expressions in scheme nest into each other very much
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23:30 jetkoten: well, gotta go. thanks again, DanBurton. nice talking with you, good night...
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23:31 DanBurton: good night, Racketeers.
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23:32 asumu: I like the new Racket logo.
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