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03:53 Blkt: good morning everyone
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05:22 ticking: say, is it possible to nest macros? I want some of the code matched by the outer macro to be transformed by the inner.
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06:00 kvda: Hello
06:03 noelw: ticking: yes
06:03 noelw: Hi!
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07:07 darkjh_: hi everybody
07:07 darkjh_: I just want to know how to set racket to output digital numbers
07:08 darkjh_: for example right now it gives me sth like 12158653461519095305016195269835521/3139350824584694915782391369215744
07:09 darkjh_: I use it with emacs, is there an option command to set this ?
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07:23 q0tw4: > (exact->inexact 12158653461519095305016195269835521/3139350824584694915782391369215744)
07:23 q0tw4: 3.8729833462074326
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07:25 darkjh_: ok thanks
07:25 darkjh_: but I'm thinking how can I set the inexact digitals by default
07:25 darkjh_: that exact value doesn't mean much for me
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07:26 q0tw4: hm, maybe some #lang. Or you can write one.
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07:33 hkBst: rudybot: eval i12158653461519095305016195269835521/3139350824584694915782391369215744
07:33 rudybot: hkBst: your sandbox is ready
07:33 rudybot: hkBst: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: i12158653461519095305016195269835521/3139350824584694915782391369215744 in module: 'program
07:34 hkBst: rudybot: eval #i12158653461519095305016195269835521
07:34 rudybot: hkBst: ; Value: 1.2158653461519096e+34
07:34 hkBst: rudybot: eval #i12158653461519095305016195269835521/3139350824584694915782391369215744
07:34 rudybot: hkBst: ; Value: 3.8729833462074326
07:34 hkBst: darkjh_: ^^^
07:34 hkBst: darkjh_: the #i specifies that a number is inexact
07:35 darkjh_: ah yes
07:35 darkjh_: but how can I set it by default
07:36 darkjh_: for example every time I call a function and it returns me a meaningful inexact number rather than a exact one
07:37 hkBst: darkjh_: inexact-ness is contagious, so if you make your input numbers inexact then the output is almost guaranteed to be inexact as well.
07:39 q0tw4: rudybot: eval (exp 0)
07:39 rudybot: q0tw4: your sandbox is ready
07:39 rudybot: q0tw4: ; Value: 1
07:39 q0tw4: rudybot: eval (exp 0.0)
07:39 rudybot: q0tw4: ; Value: 1.0
07:40 darkjh_: so the floating numbers are all inexact?
07:40 darkjh_: ok I call the functions with 28.0, then the results are ok
07:40 hkBst: yeah, in `#lang racket' floats are inexact, but this is not necessarily so and indeed isn't in some teaching languages
07:41 darkjh_: thanks that solves my problem
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07:51 macoovacany: Hello,
07:51 macoovacany: I've been trying to translate the prolog tutorial
07:51 macoovacany: http://www.csupomona.edu/~jrfisher/www/prolog_tutorial/2_1.html
07:51 macoovacany: into racklog.
07:52 macoovacany: I'm stumped at the conflict rule.
07:52 macoovacany: My code attempts are at
07:52 macoovacany: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127408
07:52 macoovacany: Any hints>
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09:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/Z5R4mg
09:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix sandbox test to work on Windows - Matthew Flatt
09:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] doc behavior of `copy-file' and modification dates on Windows - Matthew Flatt
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09:24 ticking noelw, even in r5rs ^^? I'm currently doing
09:24 ticking: (define-syntax foo
09:24 ticking: (syntax-rules ()
09:24 ticking: ((foo code) (let ((code-length (length (quote code))))
09:24 ticking: (let-syntax ((l (syntax-rules () ((l) code-length))))
09:24 ticking: code)))))
09:24 noelw: R5RS? Sorry, no idea.
09:25 ticking: the expected output for (foo (+ l l))  would be 6 ^^ but instead it can't find the identifier l
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09:27 ticking: weirdly when I try to expand that macro in the stepper the macro epander crashes
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09:34 noelw: Try it in #lang racket
09:35 asumu: ticking: Hygiene prevents the l in the input expression from being captured by your macro output, I think.
09:38 asumu: I think you can get this to work with syntax parameters.
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09:38 ticking: hm
09:44 chandler: ticking: you can do what you're trying to do in pure `syntax-rules', but only with great difficulty.
09:44 chandler: Is there a reason for not having `foo' take `l' as an explicit parameter?
09:46 ticking: kinda, the real problem uses a function that counts the occurences of (label name) in the code collecting them in an assoc list, resolving the  references to them in the evaluation of the latter code expression. But this requires a unchanged 'code' in the quoted part but a processed one in the let-syntax part.
09:47 chandler: Not sure I quite got all that. Seeing `let-syntax' on the right-hand side of `syntax-rules' already makes me suspicious - the behavior of this can be wildly nonintuitive.
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09:49 ticking: yeah, my dislike for hygenic macros is rising with every minute ^^
09:50 chandler: I don't think what you're fighting is hygiene so much as `syntax-rules'.
09:52 chandler: While it's possible to pull off some interesting things with pure `syntax-rules', generally if you're trying to do computation at expansion time you should be using the low-level system.
09:52 ianjneu: Dybvig hygiene is a little dirty.
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09:56 samth: acarrico: probably best not to worry about #%variable-reference until you need it :)
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10:37 acarrico: samth: fair enough, you are probably right (but I see that the anonymous case is probably meant for use with the variable-reference-xxx procedures when you care just about the enclosing module, not necessarily any particular identifier).
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10:47 chandler: crest: I installed 5.2 on 9.0 amd64 from packages, and it works fine
10:47 chandler: perhaps it's an environmental thing. are you using KDE or something else?
10:48 crest: chandler: nothing like that. just i3 or xmonad
10:48 chandler: huh.
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11:22 erik___: Hello. Can anybody here tell me the difference between the repo at git.racket-lang.org and the other one at github.com/plt/racket?
11:23 noelw: github mirrors the other repo. Effectively no difference.
11:24 erik___: Okay, clear. Thanks and bye. :-)
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12:56 MarkSoric: Hey all - could anyone possibly help me write a function that consumes an integer and produces the minimum number of squares that can be summed to that consumed number? I know the maximum possible number of squares is 4. Basically, I need to test if the given number is square, in which case, I'll get 1. If the given number is not square, subtract 1 from it and see if the result is square… looping until I get the minimum number of squares.
12:58 offby1: MarkSoric: which part in particular do you need help with?
12:58 offby1: given that this sounds like homework, I hesitate to simply write it for you
13:00 MarkSoric: Well I have the square? predicate done but I'm having trouble trying to wrap my head around how to go about looping - I think I would need four nested loops. Not homework directly - related though. It's a challenge my dad and I are having ever since I showed him ProjectEuler :P
13:00 offby1: do you have some code already written
13:00 offby1: ?
13:00 offby1: looping is pretty basic
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13:01 offby1: rudybot: (let loop ([sec (list 1 2 3 4)]) (when (not (null? seq)) (displayln (car seq)) (loop (cdr seq))))
13:01 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
13:01 rudybot: *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: seq in module: 'program
13:01 offby1 stares blankly
13:01 offby1: rudybot: init
13:01 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
13:01 offby1: rudybot: (let loop ([sec (list 1 2 3 4)]) (when (not (null? seq)) (displayln (car seq)) (loop (cdr seq))))
13:01 rudybot: *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: seq in module: 'program
13:01 offby1: heh
13:01 offby1: rudybot: (let loop ([seq (list 1 2 3 4)]) (when (not (null? seq)) (displayln (car seq)) (loop (cdr seq))))
13:01 rudybot: *offby1: ; stdout: "1\n2\n3\n4\n"
13:01 offby1: for some value of "basic"
13:02 MarkSoric: I do. Actually, what I'd really rather do is approach it heuristically. I know how to test is n is square, and if it is, the shortest expression is just one square. I have a test to see if a given number can be expressed as the sum of three squares as well. There is one that allows me to test if it's the sum of two squares but it involves looking at the exponents of the prime factors of n. Actually, could you maybe help me with that?
13:02 MarkSoric: If n is a positive integer then:
13:02 MarkSoric: Then n can be expressed as the sum of two squares iff each of its prime divisors of the form 4k+3 (if any) occur to an even power.
13:03 offby1: geez, you're talkin' 'bout math now :)
13:03 MarkSoric: yep :D
13:03 offby1: I doubt you want to write a prime factorization thing unless you're going to limit yourself to fairly small numbers
13:04 offby1: what's the URL for the problem?
13:04 MarkSoric: I have a prime factorization function - but yeah, it's pretty expensive, especially for larger integers.
13:04 MarkSoric: No URL, just a challenge my pops posed to me that I can't get out of my head - at the expense of real assignments unfortunately :O
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13:05 offby1: cool!
13:06 offby1: I'd probably do it all brute-force, and to hell with speed.
13:06 offby1: I'd write a squares-less-than function
13:06 MarkSoric: So do you think my original plan would be ok then?
13:06 offby1: then I'd just try various combinations of them to see if they add up :)
13:06 MarkSoric: Ah
13:06 offby1: I dunno what your original plan was
13:07 MarkSoric: 1) check if n is square. 2) if it is, return 1. if not, subtract 1 from it and see if the difference is a square. if not, subtract 4 from it and see if the result is a square. if so, 2, if not, subtract the next largest square from it and test again. repeat ad nauseum :P
13:09 offby1: rudybot: ((lambda (n) (let loop ([squares '()] [tried 0]) (let ([s (* tried tried)]) (if (< s n) (loop (cons s squares) (add1 tried)) squares)))) 100)
13:09 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: (81 64 49 36 25 16 9 4 1 0)
13:09 offby1: that'd be "squares-less-than"
13:10 offby1: applied to 100 just as a demo
13:10 MarkSoric: oh.. very cool
13:10 offby1: it's also an example of basic looping
13:10 offby1: if you're using racket there are fancier ways but "named let" is portable
13:11 MarkSoric: Cool. that works. I was trying c cause that's what we're using in my CS class this term, but I'm far more comfortable with racket for now, so I think I'll solve it in racket :D
13:11 offby1: *hudder*
13:11 offby1: the only things C is good for are a) operating systems; b) writing a better language
13:11 offby1: :)
13:12 MarkSoric: haha. I find a lot of it very counter-intuitive and I'm not a fan of its syntax. But then again, I'm fairly new to CS so maybe I'll get used to it in time.
13:13 offby1: I suspect it's useful to know, but maybe that's because _I_ learned it and want you to suffer as I did :)
13:13 (quit) noelw: Quit: noelw
13:13 offby1: (actually it's pretty damned good as old low-level languages go)
13:14 MarkSoric: Ah yes - the old "I went through it so you need to" pedagogical model. Can't wait till I'm teaching multivariate calculus :D As an aside, does c (I'm just beginning) have any data types analogous to scheme's lists?
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13:16 offby1 laughs cruelly
13:16 offby1: nope
13:16 offby1: C basically has integers floats and pointers
13:17 MarkSoric: this makes me sad
13:17 offby1: you gotta build things like lists yourself, by hand, with stone tools
13:17 offby1: *shrug*
13:17 MarkSoric: Oh well. Have to learn some time!
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13:23 danlndi: mind you, those stone tools are how the computer actually works, so there is some up-side
13:24 danlndi: still quite a pain, however
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13:39 jonrafkind: hm, somehow I'm getting a literal to act as a pattern variable or something
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13:43 jonrafkind: probably I broke the lexical context
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13:48 MarkSoric: Agreed!
13:58 offby1: you may have ruptured the fabric of space-time
13:58 offby1: some macros will do that
13:58 danlndi: sounds normal
13:59 jonrafkind: this is one of those, theres no way to know what went wrong unless you already know what went wrong deals
14:00 danlndi: does the macro stepper error out immediately?  I'm enjoying those
14:00 jonrafkind: well usually when that happens you should unhide the 'racket macros' and 'library syntax' boxes
14:00 (part) MarkSoric
14:00 jonrafkind: otherwise yes it will error out immediatley
14:00 danlndi: heh.. I get it to happen even with hiding off
14:00 jonrafkind: oh rofl
14:01 danlndi: we have so ill-advised macros
14:01 jonrafkind: yea then you are up a creek
14:01 danlndi: so => some
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14:01 jonrafkind: and no stepping level debugger for macros either, so you are stuck with printf and your brain
14:02 danlndi: two of the least capable tools in existance.
14:02 danlndi: ha..  i'll be here all week.
14:02 jonrafkind: i agree
14:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/YKE1Zg
14:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Show how the machine identifies itself. - Eli Barzilay
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14:49 ASau: eli: any chance to apply NetBSD patch at least to trunk?
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15:18 em: How do you search for stuff on planet?
15:22 chandler: I just go to http://planet.racket-lang.org/ and search using my browser.
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15:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/o1Haug
15:44 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Include more information in TR optimizer test failures. - Vincent St-Amour
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17:47 MarkSoric: I know that this is a racket channel, but I can
17:48 MarkSoric: t find any c channels, oddly. Could anyone explain why this isn't working for me: http://pastie.org/3291895
17:49 MarkSoric: Instead of returning the fewest number of squares in the sum to an integer n, it always returns four, which is neat and cool, but I'm trying to get it to only return the fewest...
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18:02 offby1: gaah.  No way am I debugging that.
18:02 offby1: It's more than five lines.
18:03 offby1: stick "printf"s in it.  Use gdb.
18:03 offby1: write unit tests.
18:08 (quit) MarkSoric: Quit: MarkSoric
18:09 samth: in increasing order of good idea ... :)
18:10 offby1: "Put a bird on it"
18:12 chandler: Put. A. Bird. On. It.
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18:41 danlndi: did "list-tabulate" previously work in reverse?
18:44 danlndi: no guarantee of init-proc order...  my bug.  been lurking for 7 years :/
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19:28 Frozenlock: This might seems like a really noob question (and it is), but can I make a docstring when defining a function, and how can I access it afterward?
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19:40 wut_: any way to make ... in pattern matching non-greedy?
19:41 wut_: so if i have (list xs ..1 'stop') it will stop matching at the first 'stop?
19:43 jonrafkind: you could make stop a literal
19:44 jonrafkind: (syntax-case stx (stop) [(_ xs ... stop ys ... stop zs ...) blah])
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19:44 wut__: ^ was me
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19:52 wut__: i found a hacky workaround by reversing the list, but it looks ugly
19:52 ianjneu: list reversal is a common thing to see, actually.
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19:57 Frozenlock: Is there a way to add a documentation string to functions?
19:58 rapacity: I don't think there's a built in way, but you can code your own system if you want to
20:00 Frozenlock: By redefining `define'?
20:01 rapacity: by defining your own define that takes a doctring
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20:18 Frozenlock: Ok I'm stuck... even if I try to define my own `mydef', I'll still use define in the body of the function.
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20:29 yoklov: so?
20:29 yoklov: you still want it defined, i think
20:30 yoklov: you just want to add the docstrings to a table
20:31 yoklov: or something like that
20:32 Frozenlock: I was expecting to be able to see the doc of my previously defined functions using C-c C-d d. (à la Slime and Common Lisp)
20:33 yoklov: oh
20:33 yoklov: i don't know if you can make that happen without extending geiser
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21:09 eli: ASau: Which patch?
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22:05 Girffe: Hey, I just installed Ubuntu on my computer and I want to know how to use racket through the terminal
22:06 Girffe: Does anyone know how I can install racket and get it working through terminal?
22:06 Girffe: I tried sudo apt-get install racket but it couldn't find the package
22:08 jamessan: racket is in oneiric and precise (whichever numeric releases those are)
22:09 Girffe: I'm running 10.04, though, don't like the unity interface
22:10 jamessan: there's also a ppa provided by the racket devs (https://launchpad.net/~plt/+archive/racket)
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22:11 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/7m_hdg
22:11 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix docs mistake - Robby Findler
22:11 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] adjust online check syntax to try to fix a bug where renaming information - Robby Findler
22:11 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] added a hack to keep DrRacket from freezing when it is unable to - Robby Findler
22:11 jamessan: yeah, racket wasn't around yet when 10.04 was released.  the drscheme package is available in 10.04, though
22:16 jonrafkind: Girffe, didn't I explain this to you last time (2 days ago?)
22:16 jonrafkind: maybe you're someone else..
22:16 jonrafkind: nope, same person
22:17 Girffe: Yeah, I'm installing it on my laptop actually, but I couldn't remember the process
22:18 jonrafkind: oh ok, well just install the ppa then you can apt-get racket
22:19 Girffe: There we go, got it working, thanks again lol
22:20 jonrafkind: it would be nice if there was a one click installer thing on the ppa website itself
22:21 Girffe: By the way, why exactly doesn't it already work with apt-get?
22:21 Girffe: is it not the same as other packages that automatically work with it?
22:22 jonrafkind: apt-get searches the ubuntu repositories by default
22:22 jonrafkind: which doesn't include all the extra ppa's in existence
22:22 jonrafkind: so you have to tell ubuntu you explicitly want to use the racket ppa
22:22 jonrafkind: theres hundreds if not thousands of ppa's out there
22:22 jonrafkind: racket itself is part of ubuntu, probably on 11.10 or whatever you can do 'apt-get install racket'
22:23 jonrafkind: but it won't be the latest version, they are quite slow to update
22:23 jonrafkind: the ppa will always be the latest
22:23 Girffe: so the repository doesn't update after initial release?
22:23 Girffe: to include new packages, I mean
22:23 jonrafkind: yea the ubuntu repository updates very slowly
22:23 jonrafkind: they are like a year behind all the time
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22:24 Girffe: ok, thanks, and while I'm here, might as well ask a question related directly to racket
22:24 jonrafkind: ubuntu is not a bleeding edge distribution so it often lags behind to make sure everything is stable
22:24 Girffe: I'm trying to write a prime finder in racket, using the method of crossing off all multiples of found primes
22:24 Girffe: but the issue is that there's no easy way to mutate one value of a list
22:25 Girffe: as far as I know, the only way to do it is recursion on the list, which can take a long time with a long list
22:25 Girffe: especially since you have to do it once for every element of the list
22:25 Girffe: is there some faster way of replacing a list with another list identical except for one value?
22:27 jonrafkind: not really, maybe you can use a set and add/remove values from it
22:34 gatlin: would hash tables be appropriate? http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/hashtables.html
22:36 gatlin: ooh, vectors: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/vectors.html I redact my first answer
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22:46 asumu: Does this GUI code loop infinitely for anyone else? http://paste.lisp.org/display/127432
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22:55 jonrafkind: asumu, it opens an editor and I can type stuff
22:55 jonrafkind: what do you see?
22:55 asumu: jonrafkind: Doesn't do anything for several minutes.
22:56 jonrafkind: it took a while to load for me, but I think thats because I didnt build the framework collects
22:56 jonrafkind: i havent updated git in a few days
22:56 asumu: Maybe something got screwed up when I built it earlier.
22:56 jonrafkind: what version are you at?
22:56 asumu: Latest git.
22:56 asumu: I'll try rebuilding framework.
22:56 jonrafkind: im at 99daf6a9d18330c06d43a451e851c794fb384a48
22:57 jonrafkind: 5 days ago
23:02 MarkSoric: Sorry - c channel is dead :( Would anyone happen to know if I can place an && in the conditions of a for loop? i.e. for (i = 1;  (i < 10)&&( i % 2 == 0); i = i + 1)
23:02 MarkSoric: Just as a quick example…Need to break a loop
23:03 jonrafkind: you can
23:03 jonrafkind: you can put any expression there
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23:04 jonrafkind: I guess that would mean understanding the difference between statements and expressions, but as you come to know what an expression is you will discover waht you can put there
23:04 MarkSoric: Would you know then what "Uninitialised value was created by a stack allocation" means? :D
23:04 asumu: Hmm, rebuilt framework and no luck. I'll try rebuilding racket/gui too.
23:05 jonrafkind: MarkSoric, are you using valgrind?
23:05 MarkSoric: yessir
23:05 jonrafkind: it means you did 'int x;' -- just declared a variable but did not initialize it at any point
23:05 jonrafkind: if you do 'int x = 0;' that declares x and sets it to 0
23:06 jetkoten: hi all
23:06 jonrafkind: if you do not initialize variables in C they are filled with random garbage -- whatever is in memory
23:06 MarkSoric: Right, I keep forgetting that! Thanks
23:07 jetkoten: anyone know how to turn *off* "Check Syntax" in DrRacket (nightly - 5.2.1.3)?
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23:07 asumu: jetkoten: click on the circle in lower right
23:08 jetkoten: asumu: i don't seem to have a circle. a green man, and a little box where the recycle loop comes in, but no circle...
23:09 jetkoten: asumu: i'm in "Beginning Student" language if that makes a difference at all...
23:11 asumu: jetkoten: Okay, can you clarify what you mean by turn off check syntax? Do you mean have the colors show up normally?
23:11 asumu: If that's what you mean, just click run.
23:13 (part) jetkoten: "ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"
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23:14 jetkoten: oops!
23:15 jetkoten: asumu: run doesn't seem to do it either... sorry i missed your other reply, accidentally closed my channel window.
23:15 jetkoten: i'm on osx lion, with a nightly, i wonder if that's it? i haven't ever used the release, this is my first night using racket. I just found the help online and the window screenshot there looks totally different... wonder if that's it?
23:16 (quit) Girffe: Quit: Page closed
23:18 asumu: jetkoten: Hmm, so in the latest versions check syntax always runs in the background. But I think it's disabled by default.
23:18 asumu: And in BSL it should be disabled completely.
23:19 asumu: Do you get the arrows and the coloring even after pressing run?
23:19 jetkoten: asumu: the button is there in my toolbar on BSL. it wasn't running, i just thought... "what's that?" and tried it. it is very nice, i just don't want it to be always on. thankfully i can get it to stop when i quit. could it be a bug?
23:20 jetkoten: asumu: btw, thanks very much for your help!
23:20 jetkoten: asumu: yes, it is just the same even after run.
23:22 asumu: jetkoten: Hmm, actually I get that behavior too. I actually don't know if it's intentional.
23:22 jetkoten: asumu: oh well, quit works for now. :) it is a nightly, after all... no big deal.
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23:38 asumu: jonrafkind: Okay, this is odd. I also get an infinite loop on 5.2. Now I'm confused.
23:38 jetkoten: thanks again
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23:38 jonrafkind: so it doesnt bring up the frame at all?
23:38 asumu: jonrafkind: nope
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23:39 jonrafkind: lunix?
23:40 asumu: Linux, yep.
23:41 asumu: Ah, it works if I replace text:info% with text:standard-style-list%. Weird.
23:43 jonrafkind: of course! that was going to be my next suggestion ;)
23:44 asumu: I think text:autowrap% is at fault. No idea why though...
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