00:00 mithos28: If I have a local planet link, and build the documentation is it linked into my documentation available on raco docs?
00:03 ozzloy: i have no application, just reading through the guide
00:04 ozzloy: just trying to understand the justification behind having all 3 of them
00:04 mithos28: well let* is just a macro over let
00:04 ozzloy: actually more interesting to me is the difference between printf write display
00:04 ozzloy: and maybe some other one i'm forgetting
00:04 ozzloy: but i'm not at that part of the guide
00:04 mithos28: I think you mean print not printf
00:05 ozzloy: ah, print was the one i was forgetting
00:05 mithos28: printf is for formatting, combines format with write
00:05 ozzloy: print write display, historical artifact?
00:05 mithos28: no
00:05 ozzloy: good
00:06 ozzloy: but i'm still not sure when to use one or the other
00:06 mithos28: write is the opposite of read
00:06 mithos28: so if you want to read the data back in, use it
00:06 ozzloy: usually i end up using printf and switching ~v ~a or whatever until it looks right
00:06 ozzloy: ah, ic ic
00:07 mithos28: display is for when you want to print text out
00:07 mithos28: rudybot: eval (display "foo")
00:07 rudybot: mithos28: your sandbox is ready
00:07 rudybot: mithos28: ; stdout: "foo"
00:07 mithos28: rudybot: veal (write "foo")
00:07 rudybot: mithos28: mario-goulart: interestingly someone here was showing how they write documentation, and extract their actual code from it. I don't recall the details though...
00:07 mithos28: rudybot: veal (write "foo")
00:07 rudybot: mithos28: don't you hate build systems that hide the details on what they are doing with useless statements like "compiling foo...", "linking foo..."?
00:07 ozzloy: there should be a doc.racket-lang.org/display-print-write with this info
00:08 mithos28: I hate autocorrect
00:08 ozzloy: rudybot, eval (write "foo")
00:08 rudybot: ozzloy: your sandbox is ready
00:08 rudybot: ozzloy: ; stdout: "\"foo\""
00:08 ozzloy: rudybot, eval (display "foo")
00:08 rudybot: ozzloy: ; stdout: "foo"
00:08 mithos28: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/Writing.html
00:08 Sag1: so I have been trying assigning a value to a image is impossible I think
00:08 ozzloy: rudybot, eval (print "foo")
00:08 rudybot: ozzloy: ; stdout: "\"foo\""
00:08 mithos28: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/printing.html?q=write
00:10 ozzloy: er...
00:11 ozzloy: what's the difference between "a way that evaluating ... as an expression produces a value that is equal? to the printed value" and "in such a way that using read on the output produces a value that is equal? to the printed value"?
00:12 ozzloy: evaluating as an expression != (read input)ing ?
00:12 mithos28: rudybot: eval (print '(+ 1 1))
00:12 rudybot: mithos28: ; stdout: "'(+ 1 1)"
00:13 mithos28: rudybot: eval (write '(+ 1 1))
00:13 rudybot: mithos28: ; stdout: "(+ 1 1)"
00:13 mithos28: it might be hard to see, but print has a quote at the begining
00:14 Sag1: Thanks for the start I will try and figure this out
00:14 ozzloy: rudybot, eval (eval (print '(+ 1 1)))
00:14 rudybot: ozzloy: ; stdout: "'(+ 1 1)"
00:14 ozzloy: rudybot, eval (eval (write '(+ 1 1)))
00:14 rudybot: ozzloy: ; stdout: "(+ 1 1)"
00:15 ozzloy: i was expecting the second to produce the value 2
00:15 mithos28: no
00:16 mithos28: rudybot: eval (eval "(+ 1 1)")
00:16 rudybot: mithos28: ; Value: "(+ 1 1)"
00:16 ozzloy: rudybot, eval (eval '(+ 1 1))
00:16 rudybot: ozzloy: ; Value: 2
00:16 mithos28: yeah
00:16 ozzloy: ah
00:16 ozzloy: eval works on symbols
00:16 mithos28: syntax objects
00:17 ozzloy: ah, and read goes from string -> symbols
00:17 ozzloy: er.. string -> syntax objects
00:17 mithos28: no, read-syntax does that
00:17 Sag1: Hmm so if I have a card and I want it to be equal to lets say 5
00:17 mithos28: read is read-syntax plus syntax->datum
00:17 Sag1: the card is an image
00:18 ozzloy: mithos28, what is syntax->datum?
00:18 ozzloy: thanks btw
00:18 mithos28: rudybot: doc syntax->datum
00:18 rudybot: mithos28: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/stxops.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._syntax-~3edatum))
00:18 mithos28: Sag1: do you want (equal? 5 card) to evaluate to #t?
00:19 mithos28: because you cannot do that
00:19 Sag1: yeah that is what I thought
00:19 mithos28: you probably want to make a struct that has three fields (image, rank, suit)
00:20 Sag1: So i need to approach this differently If Im trying to make lets say 5 of clubs equal to 5
00:20 mithos28: ozzloy: it recursively removes all of the syntax information from the object
00:20 mithos28: and leaves the structure of the object
00:21 mithos28: Sag1: try writing a rank-equal? function with the signature (card number -> boolean)
00:21 Sag1: ok thanks
00:21 ozzloy: so for (+ 1 1) it leaves behind the list containing a plus symbol, a 1 symbol then a 1 symbol
00:22 mithos28: not a 1 symbol but the number 1
00:22 ozzloy: oh
00:22 mithos28: rudybot eval '|1|
00:22 ozzloy: and not a + symbol, but the function add?
00:22 mithos28: no the plus symbol
00:22 ozzloy: oh, darn
00:23 mithos28: identifiers are syntax objects whose content is a symbol
00:23 ozzloy: oh wait, that's handled by eval, yes?
00:23 mithos28: identifiers have bindings
00:23 mithos28: the add function is the binding for the + symbol in the base environment of #lang racket
00:24 mithos28: expand is the part of eval that handles matching the identifier to its binding
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00:31 ozzloy: ic
00:31 ozzloy: this will probably be more concrete to me when i do macro stuff or maybe only when i make a language in racket
00:32 mithos28: have you read danny's article on brainfuck?
00:32 ozzloy: no
00:32 ozzloy: who is danny?  danny yoo, the whalesong dev?
00:33 mithos28: http://hashcollision.org/brainfudge/index.html
00:33 mithos28: yeah
00:33 ozzloy: brainfudge?
00:33 ozzloy: pffft
00:33 ozzloy: because this is used in classrooms or something?
00:34 ozzloy: heaven forbid children hear the word "fuck"!  they'd grow up to be amoral!
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03:36 Blkt: good morning everyone
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04:02 kvda: Hi All
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05:58 bremner: samth: I was asked in class yesterday how hard it was to extend the TR typechecker; in particular they were interested using information from more predicates (odd? and even? in the example we were looking at). Is there a reference that is accessible for undergrads?
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08:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/VvMgNg
08:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Removed old "***" leftover. - Eli Barzilay
08:46 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Add `$RKTShortName' that doesn't include the version and the platform, - Eli Barzilay
08:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/RLpnAw
08:49 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Update collects/scribblings/reference/filesystem.scrbl - Rodolfo Henrique Carvalho
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10:55 rsimoes: wait what
10:55 rsimoes: where is everyone :|
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10:55 rsimoes: Is there a type for non-zero integers?
10:56 rsimoes: or would I just define a union type?
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11:03 noelw: Exact-Nonnegative-Integer
11:04 noelw: I assume you're using Typed Racket
11:04 noelw: That's the closest I think
11:04 bremner: not, Natural?
11:04 bremner: oh doh
11:04 rsimoes: Natural is 0+ =[
11:04 noelw: Yeah
11:04 noelw: So is what I gave
11:04 rsimoes: so is Exact-Nonnegative-Integer
11:04 noelw: Jinx!
11:04 rsimoes: ok so I defined a union type
11:05 noelw: There is Exact-Positive-Integer
11:05 rsimoes: but constants are failing it
11:05 rsimoes: (define-type Literal (U Positive-Integer Negative-Integer))
11:05 rsimoes: ...
11:05 rsimoes: Type Checker: Expected Literal, but got Integer in: (* -1 l)
11:05 noelw: yeah and it include give negative integers
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11:06 noelw: Wow, that was confusing
11:06 noelw: To clarify: Positive integers don't include the negative integers
11:07 rsimoes: I just figured you were insane ;)
11:07 noelw: Oh, that as well
11:08 rsimoes: Any idea on the union definition failure?
11:08 noelw: I don't know the typing rules off the top of my head
11:08 noelw: What's the type of -1?
11:08 noelw: Maybe * doesn't have a rule the case you're trying
11:09 noelw: You might need to assert that -1 is a Literal
11:09 noelw: for example
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11:10 rsimoes: ah
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14:11 asumu: rsimoes: You're missing zero I think.
14:13 asumu: Oh, you wanted non-zero.
14:13 asumu: But if (* -1 1) is generalized to Integer, you can't apply it to a non-zero type.
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14:20 scyrmion: rudybot: (struct strucab (a b))
14:20 rudybot: scyrmion: your sandbox is ready
14:20 rudybot: scyrmion: Done.
14:20 scyrmion: why doesn't that work on my local install?
14:21 scyrmion: I get the error "require: namespace mismatch; reference (phase 1) to a module "/usr/lib/racket/collects/errortrace/errortrace-key.rkt" that is not available (phase level 0) in: errortrace-key"
14:22 offby1: might be a version difference
14:22 offby1: rudybot: version
14:22 rudybot: *offby1: 71cc2cd
14:22 offby1: rudybot: (banner)
14:22 rudybot: *offby1: your lang/htdp-beginner sandbox is ready
14:22 rudybot: *offby1: error: #<undefined>:1:1: banner: this function is not defined in: banner
14:22 offby1: grr
14:22 offby1: rudybot: init racket
14:22 offby1: halllooooo
14:22 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
14:23 offby1: rudybot: (banner)
14:23 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: "Welcome to Racket v5.2.\n"
14:23 offby1: \o/
14:23 offby1: scyrmion: anyway, perhaps you are using a different racket version?
14:24 scyrmion: I got 5.2
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14:29 offby1: scyrmion: can you paste a complete file that reproduces the problem?
14:29 offby1: so that I can just type "racket your-file.rkt" and see it?
14:32 scyrmion: I type what I gave rudybot into dr racket, and It fails with the error I posted.
14:32 scyrmion: I also just tried typing it into just racket, and it works for some reason. What's diffrent between racket and drracket.
14:33 offby1: hmm
14:33 offby1: lemme try
14:33 offby1: did you type it into the upper part or the lower part?
14:34 offby1: worked for me -- I typed it into the lower part, and hit "return"
14:34 offby1: not a peep
14:35 scyrmion: what are your language settings?
14:36 offby1: dunno
14:37 offby1: it said "#lang racket" at the top if that helps any
14:37 offby1: I hadda kill it because my puny laptop is grinding to a halt
14:38 scyrmion: I have #lang racket as well... I must have some craped up install or something.
14:39 offby1: perhaps you've got an init file?
14:39 offby1: ~/.racketrc or something?
14:40 scyrmion: nope. no .racketrc
14:42 asumu: scyrmion: Is your language set to "use language in source" (or whatever it's called)?
14:43 scyrmion: yes... I'm getting inconsistent behavior now. I got it to work. Will investigate and report back.
14:43 asumu: scyrmion: If you can reproduce it, submit a bug report. :)
14:44 scyrmion: rudybot: (constructor-structab 1 2)
14:44 rudybot: scyrmion: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: constructor-structab in module: 'program
14:44 scyrmion: did I do that wrong?
14:46 offby1: I don't think you ever defined constructor-structab
14:46 offby1: you did define strucab, strucab-a, and strucab-b earlier though
14:47 offby1: rudybot: (struct wotevea (a b))
14:47 rudybot: *offby1: Done.
14:47 scyrmion: then how do you initialize the struct?
14:47 offby1: rudybot: (wotevea "THe letter 'A'" 'something-else)
14:47 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: #(struct:wotevea "THe letter 'A'" something-else)
14:47 offby1: rudybot: (wotevea-a (wotevea "THe letter 'A'" 'something-else))
14:47 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: "THe letter 'A'"
14:47 offby1: rudybot: (wotevea-b (wotevea "THe letter 'A'" 'something-else))
14:47 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: something-else
14:47 scyrmion: oh. ok.
14:48 scyrmion: (structab 1 2)
14:48 offby1: scyrmion: a struct with two fields is almost exactly like a cons
14:48 scyrmion: rudybot (structab 1 2)
14:48 offby1: rudybot: (cons "The letter 'A'" 'something-else)
14:48 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: ("The letter 'A'" . something-else)
14:48 offby1: rudybot: (car (cons "The letter 'A'" 'something-else))
14:48 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: "The letter 'A'"
14:48 offby1: rudybot: (cdr (cons "The letter 'A'" 'something-else))
14:48 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: something-else
14:48 offby1: ya dig?
14:48 scyrmion: I'm just testing structs
14:48 offby1: yep
14:49 offby1: (you can actually do all sorts of weird advanced things with structs that a plain old cons can't do)
14:51 (quit) karswell__: 
14:52 scyrmion: alright, if I run (require ffi/unsafe) followed by (struct structab (a b)) in drracket, I get the error.
14:53 offby1: very odd
14:53 offby1: sounds bug-worthy
15:01 scyrmion: can you reproduce?
15:11 offby1: that's a mighty personal question
15:12 scyrmion: I'm sorry. Can your DrRacket reproduce the error?
15:12 offby1: :)
15:12 offby1: no :(
15:12 offby1: I'm putting the two lines in the top then hitting the "run" button
15:13 scyrmion: hmm... what if you run them in the bottom on a fresh script?
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15:20 offby1: hole on
15:20 offby1: ha! success
15:22 scyrmion: weird.
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15:27 scyrmion: where is the racket bug tracker?
15:28 scyrmion: found it.
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18:48 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 9 new commits to master: http://git.io/fDzM5g
18:48 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Release branch - Jay McCarthy
18:48 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Adding branch information to commits - Jay McCarthy
18:48 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fixing stupidity... for now - Jay McCarthy
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19:43 danlndi: racketers:   I'm getting a crash in racket in scheme_gmp_tls_unload (racket/src/gmp/gmp.c line 5813) during startup
19:43 danlndi: it's like the thread local storage is getting corrupted...?
19:45 Frozenlock: Is there a way to use slime with racket?
19:50 danlndi: or maybe the current thread pointer is getting corrupted...?
19:50 jonrafkind: danlndi, are you seeing a segfault?
19:50 offby1: Frozenlock: not really, but "geiser" is pretty good
19:50 jonrafkind: just keep going, racket uses sigsegv as a write barrier for gc
19:50 offby1: when it's not hanging
19:50 danlndi: jonrafkind: ah... i see. yes it is a SIGSEGV
19:50 jonrafkind: handle SIGSEGV nostop noprint
19:50 jonrafkind: and then bt on SIGABRT
19:51 Frozenlock: offby1: so you want to kill my emacs? :P
19:51 offby1: YES
19:51 Frozenlock: I've started with dr racket, but can't even make a circle... "reference to an identifier before its definition: circle"
19:51 offby1: and steal your women and cattle
19:52 offby1: Frozenlock: that suggests you're using the wrong "language level"
19:52 offby1: there might be one where "circle" is built-in
19:52 Frozenlock: Oh right... I'm using racket, and I see slideshow in the tutorial.
19:52 Frozenlock should RTFM
19:54 danlndi: jonrafkind: looks like I'm getting racket to crash with "IGSEGV MAPERR si_code 1 fault on addr 0x1"
19:54 danlndi: or "SIGSEGV MAPERR si_code 1 fault on addr 0x1"
19:54 Frozenlock: offby1: Does geiser interact with racket with a repl?
19:55 jonrafkind: danlndi, so if oyu run it in gdb can does it ultimately hit an abort() ?
19:55 danlndi: ah nevermind... I think it's in my code
19:55 jonrafkind: lulz
19:55 jonrafkind: are you messing with the ffi?
19:55 danlndi: yep
19:55 danlndi: its in a finalizer for a ctype
19:56 offby1: Frozenlock: geiser is pretty much like SLIME for racket (and guile too)
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20:01 sag1: Hey how would I make (list-ref cardlist (random (length cardlist))) not reselect the same image from cardlist? Cardlist is a defined list of 10 images
20:04 offby1: what do you mean by "reselect"?
20:05 offby1: Do you mean you're evaluating that more than once, and sometimes it gives the same answer that it gave previously?
20:06 offby1: sag1: hello?
20:07 offby1: *shrug*
20:09 sag1: yes
20:09 sag1: i mean that i can get the same answer in a row sorry.
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20:13 Frozenlock: offby1: "Searching for program: no such file or directory, Racket.exe" What is the variable I should setq?
20:14 offby1: Frozenlock: dunno
20:15 (quit) dous: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
20:15 offby1: sag1: I swear I've answered this already -- maybe to someone else in your class.  But you probably want to call 'shuffle' on that list, then process each item in the shuffled list (at most) once.
20:15 offby1: Frozenlock: maybe geiser-racket-binary
20:16 offby1: Frozenlock: but it sounds like your problem is more about not having the right directory on your PATH
20:16 offby1: (actually, it sounds like your problem is that you're using Windows, but ...)
20:16 offby1: rudybot: (random 5)
20:16 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 0
20:16 offby1: rudybot: (random 5)
20:16 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 2
20:16 offby1: rudybot: (random 5)
20:16 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 3
20:16 offby1: rudybot: (random 5)
20:16 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 4
20:17 offby1: rudybot: (random 5)
20:17 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 4
20:17 offby1: see? A duplicate
20:17 offby1: rudybot: (shuffle (build-list 5 values))
20:17 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: (4 2 0 1 3)
20:17 offby1: see? No duplicates
20:18 sag1: I think it might be someone else, b/c my first time on this was about a month ago and then yesterday
20:18 offby1: someone was asking "can I mark an image as having been selected".  He also said he was in high school.
20:18 offby1: I'm probably just assuming it was a "he"
20:19 Frozenlock: I find that aggravating that everything seems to rely so heavily on PATH :(
20:20 Frozenlock: offby1: you were right about geiser-racket-binary
20:20 sag1: Hmmm he could be in my class interesting
20:23 sag1: do I need to create/define shuffle or is it already built into function
20:26 (nick) ChaozZBubi -> chaozzbubi
20:32 jamessan: Frozenlock: you would rather have to specify paths to everything all the time?
20:37 Frozenlock: jamessan: No, it's what I have to do actually, which is why I was ranting
20:38 Frozenlock: Waaaaaa! No function's docu inside emacs? (print _ (_) (_)) An identifier in module #%kernel.
20:48 bremner: it's better with functions in the current module
20:53 Frozenlock has the impression half of active #emacs users are here
20:53 bremner: well, if you count rudybot
20:53 bremner: about 200 times
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21:01 offby1: sag1: shuffle is built in to the "racket" language.  I don't know about other languages.
21:01 offby1: Frozenlock: only the interesting ones :)
21:04 (quit) dyoo: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
21:05 Frozenlock: In racket (define pie 3) would be the same as (setq pie 3) in elisp?
21:11 offby1: more or less
21:11 offby1: rudybot: (define pie 3)
21:11 rudybot: *offby1: Done.
21:11 offby1: rudybot: pie
21:11 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: 3
21:11 offby1: ta-da
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21:21 bremner: Frozenlock: except that define is not used to mutate the value of pie
21:21 Frozenlock: Ok, so if I want to change it I would need to use setq or setf?
21:21 bremner: set!
21:21 Frozenlock: My world is crumbling
21:28 offby1: Frozenlock: in Steele and Sussman's original 1975 paper, their goals for scheme included "annoy Emacs users"
21:29 Frozenlock: I don't remember seeing something of the sort: (define (double v)
21:29 Frozenlock: ((if (string? v) string-append +) v v))
21:30 Frozenlock: The if function returns another function, which is then applied to 'v' and 'v'
21:30 Frozenlock: I would have added a lambda somewhere in the mix...
21:33 Frozenlock: offby1: CL users as well, I don't remember set! from my short walk in CL land.
21:36 bremner: that's sortof like saying I don't remember this bit of protestant dogma from my brief time as a catholic
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21:41 offby1: I used to be a vegetarian, and I can assure you, we did not eat bacon.
21:41 offby1: Nuh-uh.
21:51 danlndi: and when "set!" is said aloud, you just say "set" in a loud voice
21:53 offby1: I say "set", then fire a starter pistol.
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22:39 scyrmion: is it preferable to use (list 1 2) or '(1 2) to define a list?
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22:44 helloworld: hello.. is anyone here?
22:45 helloworld: ohmygod im alone
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22:59 kvda: hi world
22:59 Frozenlock: He's gone Jim
22:59 kvda: :/
22:59 kvda: I'll never *know* him
23:06 asumu: scyrmion: That depends.
23:07 asumu: Note that list works differently on more interesting examples.
23:07 asumu: rudybot: (let ([x 3]) (list x 3))
23:07 rudybot: asumu: your sandbox is ready
23:07 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: (3 3)
23:07 asumu: rudybot: (let ([x 3]) '(x 3))
23:07 rudybot: asumu: ; Value: (x 3)
23:07 asumu: scyrmion: ^ see
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