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01:15 ozzloy: bremner, http://xkcd.com/221/
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01:35 RackN00b_: Trying to create a function that builds a list of lists... The idea is for an implementation of the game Simon. I have a much cruder implementation than I would like. I was thinking of, instead of generating a new list of colors for the user to remember each round, I could generate a list that contains the list for each round. I'm using build-list for the first, now I am trying to see if there's a way to use build-list again... That's not
01:35 RackN00b_: clear is it? :o(
01:36 ozzloy: you want a list of lists
01:36 RackN00b_: I've got a way of doing it but i can't seem to figure out how to make each the lists grow... a counter maybe?
01:36 ozzloy: the inner lists are lists of colors
01:36 RackN00b_: I'll pastebin what I have
01:36 ozzloy: so you want a list of lists of colors
01:37 ozzloy: so far, that's what i'm getting from what you're saying
01:37 RackN00b_: yeah... the first entry should be a list of length one, the second 2...etc
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01:38 RackN00b_: This is what I have so far: http://pastebin.com/8LtLinTk
01:39 RackN00b_: Which is great save for two things: 1) I'd like to do it all in one function if possible, and 2, I need the first element to be a list of length 1, and the last to be a list of length n
01:39 ozzloy: hmm... well i haven't used build-list before
01:40 ozzloy: here's something i made that makes a list of lists of numbers https://github.com/ozzloy/ai-class-2011/blob/master/final.rkt
01:40 ozzloy: but they're all of the same length
01:41 ozzloy: why do it all in one function?
01:41 RackN00b_: Just to see if I can, really.
01:41 ozzloy: i'd have a function that returns a list of colors of length n
01:41 ozzloy: then a function that calls that for 1 to n
01:41 ozzloy: er...
01:42 ozzloy: a function that returns a list of n colors
01:42 RackN00b_: No, the first was right...
01:42 RackN00b_: Wait... if I do n(n+1)/2 colors and split the list... meh - that seems like a lot of work :P
01:42 ozzloy: and another function that calls the first for/list 1 to m
01:43 ozzloy: oh hmm
01:43 ozzloy: if you're doing simon
01:43 ozzloy: then you want the one for length n+1 to have the first n elements the same
01:43 ozzloy: right?
01:44 ozzloy: so ... maybe a function where you give it a list and it gives back a list with 1 more color added at the end
01:44 ozzloy: er... wait
01:44 ozzloy: you'd just need the final list
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01:44 RackN00b_: yep... facepalm... I thought they were all random... crappers, of course they're not... Each round just tacks on an additional color!
01:44 RackN00b_: haha
01:44 ozzloy: then you could take the first, first two, first three, ... first n - 1
01:45 ozzloy: lol
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01:46 RackN00b_: yep. man it's easy to overcomplicated things at 2:00 am :P
01:46 ozzloy: or is that premature optimization
01:46 ozzloy: because you don't want a fixed length
01:46 ozzloy: you want to keep going
01:46 ozzloy: until the player gets one wrong
01:46 ozzloy: or do you have a length for winning?
01:46 ozzloy: a final length
01:46 RackN00b_: No, it's a fixed length.
01:46 RackN00b_: a final length, yes
01:47 ozzloy: icic
01:47 ozzloy: then yeah
01:47 ozzloy: a valid optimization
01:47 RackN00b_: for sure
01:47 ozzloy: there's definitely a take-n like function
01:47 RackN00b_: take-n?
01:48 ozzloy: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/pairs.html?q=list#(def._((lib._racket/list..rkt)._take))
01:48 ozzloy: just "take"
01:49 RackN00b_: very cool
01:51 ozzloy: RackN00b_, you're just learning racket too right?
01:51 ozzloy: "just learning" i've been learning it for 4 months now
01:51 RackN00b_: Oh yes... getting the toes close to water :D
01:51 ozzloy: i've decided to give the guide a thorough reading and take notes
01:52 RackN00b_: I plan on the same, actually.
01:52 ozzloy: i've started before and failed.  this time i'm keeping a git repo of notes
01:52 ozzloy: it's like a bookmark
01:52 RackN00b_: good idea.
01:53 ozzloy: i've found a couple typos and submitted a patch and a bug report and they got fixed
01:53 ozzloy: quite neat
01:53 RackN00b_: NicE! Not bad for 4 months :P
01:53 ozzloy: heh
01:53 ozzloy: well it's not like i fixed code or implemented a feature in code
01:54 (nick) ChaozZBubi -> chaozzbubi
01:54 ozzloy: but yeah, it makes me feel good
01:54 RackN00b_: well still.. that's pretty cool
01:54 ozzloy: they are really fast!
01:54 ozzloy: i submitted the bug report and it was fixed within 10s of minutes tops
01:54 RackN00b_: Wow... that is fast
01:55 ozzloy: and the patch was accepted ... not sure how fast, but also break-neck speeds
01:55 RackN00b_: Good to know people care
01:55 ozzloy: RackN00b_, so initially when i saw your nick, i thought you were this troll from the mailing list
01:55 ozzloy: they were much more patient with the troll than i would have been
01:55 RackN00b_: Troll? uh-oh :P
01:55 ozzloy: yeah
01:56 RackN00b_: no troll here
01:56 RackN00b_: promise!
01:56 ozzloy: oh yeah, you're much better than the troll
01:56 ozzloy: trollers gonna troll
01:57 RackN00b_: strollers gonna stroll
01:57 ozzloy: it kinda sounded like this was the first ever troll
01:57 RackN00b_: haha
01:57 ozzloy: i'm glad i was there when racket got its first troll
01:57 ozzloy: that's like one of the signs of doing well
01:57 RackN00b_: Haha... true
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03:33 Blkt: good morning everyone
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06:38 tim-brown: i have a file descriptor from C that I would usually poll asynchronously via poll/select
06:39 tim-brown: it's available to me via an extension library
06:41 tim-brown: how would folk recommend that I get it into e.g. a "sync" call?
06:41 noelw: Turn it into a port, as discussed yesterday
06:41 noelw: and away you go
06:43 tim-brown: sorry noel, i must've blinked when you replied.
06:44 tim-brown: but when you said "port->fd" you were talking about the API call scheme_make_fd_..._port()
06:44 noelw: If you search the docs for "port fd" you see two C functions for converting a fd into a port
06:44 noelw: Yes
06:44 noelw: You can do this from Racket
06:44 tim-brown: via ffi?
06:44 noelw: something like (ffi-lib #f)
06:45 noelw: gets you Racket's library
06:45 noelw: from there get the functions you want
06:45 noelw: and you're away
06:45 tim-brown: thanks for getting back to me yesterday, and for your patience reiterating yourself
06:47 noelw: np
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06:56 tim-brown: where are the pdf manuals on docs.racket-lang.org?
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08:09 neuccisstudent: hey guys. ive got a quick question. does anyone know where i can find documentation on how to copy a string to my computers clipboard using drracket?
08:13 noelw: Might be in the framework docs
08:13 noelw: Not the kind of thing I have much experience with, though
08:15 neuccisstudent: Okay, I'll look there. Thanks!
08:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/q7vJQg
08:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix macro expander performance problem - Matthew Flatt
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08:55 veer: (define-syntax (do-stuff stx) (syntax-parse stx   [(_ e ...) #'(begin-for-syntax e ...)]))
08:56 veer: (do-stuff  (printf "hello\n"))
08:56 veer: prints "hello" 3 times instead once ??
09:03 veer: (begin-for-syntax (printf  "bye\n")) also print 3 times
09:17 noelw: In a module or at the top-level?
09:22 veer: in #lang racket
09:22 veer: is that not same as module
09:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/4cvr0A
09:25 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix `find-files' to convert an initial string into a path - Matthew Flatt
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09:59 samth: veer: that's the same as a module
10:00 samth: but the number of times for-syntax expressions are evaluated is complicated
10:01 samth: tim-brown: pdf docs at http://download.racket-lang.org/docs/recent/pdf/
10:03 samth: neuccisstudent: (send the-clibboard set-text "whee" 0)
10:03 samth: sorry, that should be:
10:03 samth: neuccisstudent: (send the-clibboard set-clipboard-string "whee" 0)
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10:09 samth: eli: ping
10:10 eli: samth: ?
10:11 samth: eli: you never changed the ordering of bug categories to have all back at the top
10:11 veer: I see , what I was trying to do was wrap (define-class class-name (make-class))
10:11 veer: to (begin-for-syntax (define class-name (make-class))) and letter use class-name
10:11 veer: in same phase for (add-class cl1 cl1 class-name) which is also wrapped
10:12 veer: in begin-for-syntax
10:12 veer: Is this not the correct way to do?
10:13 samth: veer: that might well be the right thing to do
10:13 samth: but you should read Matthew's paper "you want it when" for info on how to do this
10:14 (quit) jeapostrophe: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
10:15 eli: samth: That's because it requires checking that things work fine, and I hesitate to do that and have a flood of tests.
10:16 samth: eli: it makes every edit to bugs that i have to do harder
10:17 veer: ok , google search gives "Composable and compilable macros"  I assume this is the paper , thanks I will read it.
10:18 samth: veer: yes
10:18 samth: you might also find this paper useful: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/racket/pubs/scheme2007-ctf.pdf
10:20 samth: eli: thanks!
10:22 veer: samth: thanks a lot , downloaded both :)
10:23 eli: samth: No.
10:24 samth: eli: huh/
10:24 samth: ?
10:24 samth: it just changed for me
10:24 eli: samth: It will change back.
10:24 samth: damn
10:24 eli: Unless I get it to work.
10:24 samth: you have to put pending first
10:24 samth: i think that's what we decided
10:26 samth: eli: i think pending might need to be *before* all
10:30 eli: samth: Yes pending must be first.  I tried a bunch of things, and nothing worked.
10:30 eli: I hate this stupidity.
10:34 samth: eli: ah, perl scripts :)
10:34 samth: eli: thanks for doing this, though
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11:31 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/3ojH-A
11:31 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Union types instead of clobbering them in the type table. - Vincent St-Amour
11:31 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Add an alternate name for case->. - Vincent St-Amour
11:38 samth: stamourv`: that change to the type table isn't right
11:39 samth: oh, never mind, i thought you were modifying a different table
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13:11 samth: stamourv`: ping
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13:15 RackN00b: Hey all. Hoping for a bit of a hand. I've got a list of length N. I need a list, of length N, each element of which is, in increasing order, from 1 to N... Does that make any sense?
13:16 samth: eli: this bug seems to have a problem: http://bugs.racket-lang.org/query/?debug=&database=default&cmd=view+audit-trail&cmd=view&pr=12478
13:16 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/6urwgmv
13:16 samth: RackN00b: like this?
13:16 samth: rudybot: eval (for/list ([i 17]) i)
13:16 rudybot: samth: your sandbox is ready
13:16 rudybot: samth: ; Value: (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16)
13:16 samth: rudybot: eval (for/list ([i 17]) (add1 i))
13:16 rudybot: samth: ; Value: (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17)
13:17 RackN00b: Each element in the list, needs to be a list of length 1, 2, 3, 4... maybe an example would be better...
13:17 samth: oh, ok
13:17 RackN00b: (foo 4) => '((1)(1 2)(1 2 3)(1 2 3 4))
13:17 RackN00b: I'll pastebin what Im currently using to make a list
13:17 samth: rudybot: eval (for/list ([i 4]) (for/list ([j (add1 i)]) j))
13:17 rudybot: samth: ; Value: ((0) (0 1) (0 1 2) (0 1 2 3))
13:18 samth: rudybot: eval (for/list ([i 4]) (for/list ([j (add1 i)]) (add1 j)))
13:18 rudybot: samth: ; Value: ((1) (1 2) (1 2 3) (1 2 3 4))
13:18 RackN00b: wow
13:18 RackN00b: http://pastebin.com/y0vPiSuZ
13:18 RackN00b: They're a list of colors
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13:34 RackN00b: samth: thanks! I'll see if I can work that into what I've got. That's awesome
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13:51 RackN00b: samth: can't seem to figure out  a way to do it for an existing list... Any ideas? :o(
13:51 samth: what do you mean for an existing list?
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13:52 RackN00b: I already have an existing list of colors... '(blue red yellow green blue) and I'd like to have a function consume that list and produce '((blue)(blue red)(blue red yellow)(blue red yellow green)(blue red yellow green blue))
13:52 samth: rudybot: (define l '(blue red yellow green blue))
13:52 rudybot: samth: Done.
13:53 samth: rudybot: (for/list ([i (length l]) (take l (add1 i)))
13:53 rudybot: samth: you could do (listp (last L)) maybe
13:53 samth: rudybot: eval (for/list ([i (length l]) (take l (add1 i)))
13:53 rudybot: samth: error: #<undefined>:1:23: read: missing `)' to close preceding `(', found instead `]'
13:53 samth: rudybot: eval (for/list ([i (length l)]) (take l (add1 i)))
13:53 rudybot: samth: ; Value: ((blue) (blue red) (blue red yellow) (blue red yellow green) (blue red yellow green blue))
13:54 RackN00b: Wow... Man, for/list is wicked.
13:54 RackN00b: Thank you.
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14:41 stamourv`: samth: pong
14:41 (nick) stamourv` -> stamourv
14:41 samth: stamourv: now fixed
14:41 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/35HT8g
14:41 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Refactor and improve fuzzy searching in completion. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
14:41 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Document unicode case->. - Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
14:42 samth: see? :)
14:42 stamourv: Oh, forgot about that.
14:44 samth: eli: the autocomplete code for drracket is now in framework/private/autocomplete.rkt
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18:09 lewis1711: is there any racket code for paul grahams "on lisp"?
18:10 (nick) jschuster -> jschuster_away
18:13 stamourv: lewis1711: Not that I'm aware of.
18:13 stamourv: Sounds like a fun exercise, though.
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18:14 yoklov: on lisp is mostly common lisp macros though which… i don't think translate well to scheme/racket macros
18:14 yoklov: i don't get racket macros aside from syntax-rules though so maybe i'm just missing something.
18:15 lewis1711: I was under the impression racket had similar stuff to CL macros
18:15 yoklov: not really
18:15 yoklov: you can (require mzlib/define-macro) or something like that
18:15 yoklov: but nobody does
18:16 yoklov: though honestly sometimes syntax-case seems like a common lisp style macro, and again i only understand syntax-rules (not syntax-case) so who knows.
18:17 asumu: lewis1711: You can write equivalent macros, but some unhygienic CL macros might be considered bad taste.
18:17 samth: asumu: that's not quite true ...
18:18 asumu: Okay mostly. Though what kinds of CL macros can't you express again?
18:19 lewis1711: basically I can't find any use for macros except for very trivial things, and I heard this book was a good way to explain what you can do with them
18:19 samth: asumu: you can't violate other people's referential transparency
18:19 samth: lewis1711: the racket docs have some good examples
18:19 asumu: samth: Oh, you mean you can't write macros that violate taints and such?
18:20 samth: no
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18:20 samth: lewis1711: http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/pattern-macros.html#%28part._pattern-macro-example%29 is a good example
18:20 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/88fpuzs
18:21 samth: rudybot: (require mzlib/define-macro)
18:21 rudybot: samth: error: default-load-handler: cannot open input file: "/usr/local/racket-5.2/collects/mzlib/define-macro.rkt" (No such file or directory; errno=2)
18:21 samth: rudybot: (require mzlib/defmacro)
18:21 rudybot: samth: Done.
18:21 yoklov: yeah, that one!
18:22 samth: rudybot: (defmacro m (x) `(lambda (,x) ,x)0
18:22 rudybot: samth: If the Unitarian Universalists can make hymns in praise of reason, we can make hymns in praise of defmacro.
18:22 samth: rudybot: (defmacro m (x) `(lambda (,x) ,x))
18:22 rudybot: samth: Done.
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18:22 samth: rudybot: (let ([lambda 5]) (m z))
18:22 rudybot: samth: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: z in module: 'program
18:23 samth: asumu: so that direction violates ref. trans.
18:23 samth: but the other direction doesn't
18:23 samth: rudybot: (defmacro m (e) (let ([lambda 5]) ,e))
18:23 rudybot: samth: error: #<undefined>:1:34: unquote: not in quasiquote in: (unquote e)
18:23 samth: rudybot: (defmacro m (e) `(let ([lambda 5]) ,e))
18:23 rudybot: samth: Done.
18:24 yoklov: lewis1711, also while this is probably not the best place to find racket macros but it is the first place i ever really saw them used http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/racket.php
18:24 samth: rudybot: (m (lambda (x) x))
18:24 rudybot: samth: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: x in module: 'program
18:24 asumu: lewis1711: BTW I think part 12 of PLAI has a good motivation for why to use macros and how: http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Books/ProgLangs/2007-04-26/plai-2007-04-26.pdf
18:24 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/4n7hdw
18:24 samth: rudybot: (define-syntax-rule (n) (lambda (x) x))
18:24 rudybot: samth: Done.
18:24 samth: rudybot: (m (n))
18:24 rudybot: samth: ; Value: #<procedure>
18:25 samth: there we go
18:25 samth: asumu: in CL, that would break
18:25 yoklov: still, paul graham's "on lisp" actually has a section on when to use macros/what kinds of things they're typically used for i think
18:26 yoklov: and that would apply to, more or less, any lisp
18:26 yoklov: (i think)
18:29 yoklov: yeah like chapter 1 pretty much.
18:29 yoklov: actually no thats a lie.
18:31 asumu: Chapter 8 is about when to use macros.
18:32 asumu: Although I like Shriram's "when to use" in 36.6 of PLAI better. For one, it's shorter. ;)
18:33 asumu: (PG is rather wordy in chapter 8)
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18:47 lewis17111: why does everything in a quasi-quote form come out quoted? :/
18:48 lewis17111: and how do you unquote it?
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18:51 samth: lewis1711: you unquote with ,
18:51 samth: like this
18:51 samth: rudybot: eval `(1 2 ,(+ 1 2))
18:51 rudybot: samth: ; Value: (1 2 3)
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18:53 lewis1711: but it's eval that's unquoting out the end form
18:53 lewis1711: rudybot: `(1 2 ,(+ 1 2))
18:53 rudybot: lewis1711: your sandbox is ready
18:53 rudybot: lewis1711: ; Value: (1 2 3)
18:53 samth: lewis1711: eval has nothing to do with it
18:54 samth: eval is a command to rudybot
18:54 lewis1711: alright then I am horribly confused
18:54 lewis1711: rudybot: `(2)
18:54 rudybot: lewis1711: ; Value: (2)
18:54 lewis1711: that's not what the racket repl gives me
18:54 lewis1711: it gives me '(2)
18:55 samth: lewis1711: that's just an issue of the printer
18:55 samth: rudybot: (write '(2))
18:55 rudybot: samth: ; stdout: "(2)"
18:55 samth: rudybot: (print '(2))
18:55 rudybot: samth: ; stdout: "'(2)"
18:56 samth: rudybot: 'a
18:56 rudybot: samth: ; Value: a
18:56 samth: rudybot: (write 'a)
18:56 rudybot: samth: ; stdout: "a"
18:56 samth: rudybot: "a"
18:56 rudybot: samth: ; Value: "a"
18:56 samth: rudybot use write, drracket and the racket repl use print
18:57 lewis1711: ok, so how do you get an unquoted form returned from quasiquote? I am not talking about unquoting within a quasiquote, but the final output
18:58 DanBurton: translating a module from Racket into Typed Racket, what is the recommended way to replace "provide/contract", given that I already annotated all of my defines and structs with types?
18:58 samth: DanBurton: just use `provide'
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19:26 DanBurton: samth: Can you tell me what I'm doing wrong here? http://pastebin.com/XB6DvzNT I'm not quite understanding the error "identifier already provided (as a different binding) in: location"
19:27 samth: DanBurton: that's bug 12447
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19:27 samth: so the answer is "using my crappy software" :)
19:27 DanBurton: lol
19:28 samth: i would either use `define-struct:' or not use `struct-out'
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19:28 DanBurton: samth: what kind of workaround could I use to avoid struct-out?
19:28 DanBurton: just provide all the functions individually? Or is there a better workaround?
19:29 samth: DanBurton: probably providing things individually
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20:37 JdpB42: hey
20:37 JdpB42: web development in racket? rad or no?
20:49 yoklov: if you can grok the docs, totally rad.
20:49 yoklov: they're… tough though.
20:49 yoklov can't, at least.
20:49 yoklov: (not that that says anything!)
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21:34 JdpB42: yoklov: what do you mean?
21:34 JdpB42: \
21:34 JdpB42: how good are you at racket
21:35 yoklov: not very haha
21:37 JdpB42: hmmmm
21:37 yoklov: but there has been discussion on the mailing list on the fact that the docs for the webserver can be tough to grasp if you're not familiar with racket's internals.
21:39 yoklov: they may have improved it since then though.
21:39 yoklov: http://docs.racket-lang.org/continue/index.html seems much more complete than last time i looked at it
21:43 yoklov: i think http://docs.racket-lang.org/web-server/index.html is what they were discussing though
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21:54 JdpB42: yoklov: so ....not very rad :P
21:55 yoklov: i mean it _seems_ pretty cool
21:55 yoklov: if i could only just...
21:56 (quit) gf3: Quit: MY WORK HERE IS DONE. YOU'RE WELCOME!
21:56 yoklov: … figure it out :/
22:03 ozzloy: i think "web applications in racket" is meant more as a reference than a guide
22:05 yoklov: right, but i think the complaint is the guide doesn't take you to the point required to understand the reference.
22:05 ozzloy: oh yeah, i think that's true
22:05 ozzloy: not from reading it
22:06 ozzloy: but that's what i recall from the discussion
22:06 yoklov: i read the guide once
22:06 yoklov: it looks way better now though.
22:08 ozzloy: icic
22:08 yoklov: it might even make a stab at explaining continuations now lol
22:09 yoklov: i saw a chart with arrows
22:09 ozzloy: oh wow, it's all one long page
22:10 yoklov: haha, yeah.  at the very least, its less daunting now.
22:10 yoklov: err
22:10 yoklov: less daunting *that way
22:11 ozzloy: looks like it has very thorough instructions
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