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03:30 Blkt: good morning everyone
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03:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Acrr-w
03:50 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] New Racket version 5.2.1.2. - Eli Barzilay
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04:19 noelw: hi
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07:12 sindoc: What's with the '|' delimiter in '|#:a| after evaluating (string->symbol
07:12 sindoc: (string-append
07:12 sindoc: "#:" "a")) ?
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07:13 sindoc: rudybot: (string->symbol
07:13 sindoc: (string-append
07:13 sindoc: "#:" "a"))
07:13 rudybot: sindoc: You can use symbol->string to get the string version of a symbol (though changes to the string will not alter the symbol), and string->symbol will intern the string as a symbol.
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08:03 noelw: sindoc: | is a delimiter for things that wouldn't otherwise be read as symbols
08:03 noelw: In this case, starting with a hash would cause problems
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08:29 sindoc: noelw: Indeed. I was hoping to generate a list of keywords, given a list of syntax objects in a macro and I assumed the hash should be there.
08:30 noelw: The vertical bars are an artefact of printing the symbol
08:31 noelw: rudy-bot: (symbol->string '|#a|)
08:31 noelw: oops
08:31 noelw: rudybot: (symbol->string '|#a|)
08:32 rudybot: noelw: your sandbox is ready
08:32 rudybot: noelw: ; Value: "#a"
08:32 noelw: They don't actually form part of the symbol's name.
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08:39 sindoc: noelw: nevertheless, they are there and I'd rather they weren't :|
08:40 sindoc: let's say I have input: '(a b c)
08:40 noelw: Ok, but they are only there when you write the symbol
08:40 sindoc: I want to generate output: '(#:a #:b #:c)
08:40 noelw: rudybot: (display '|#a|)
08:40 rudybot: noelw: ; stdout: "#a"
08:41 noelw: rudybot (write '|#a|)
08:41 noelw: rudybot: (write '|#a|)
08:41 rudybot: noelw: ; stdout: "|#a|"
08:42 bremner: eli: (or others that use the handin-server), is there something obviously wrong with my checker.rkt? http://paste.debian.net/151670/  It seems like it isn't run at all, since any file even garbage, is accepted.
08:43 sindoc: noelw: (write …) includes the delimiters
08:44 noelw: Sorry,  don't understand the problem. If you don't want the delimiters, don't write them -- display them.
08:45 sindoc: How would one transform '(a b c) into '(#:a irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#:b irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#:c) ?
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09:14 sindoc1: (let ((proc (λ (#:a a) a)))
09:14 sindoc1: (keyword-apply
09:14 sindoc1: proc
09:14 sindoc1: (list
09:14 sindoc1: (string->symbol
09:14 sindoc1: "#:a"))
09:14 sindoc1: '(1) '()))
09:15 sindoc1: The above code illustrates the problem
09:24 aidy: Is this a normal way of doing data structures in scheme? http://aids.diddyinc.com/pub/
09:32 noelw: aidy: no, looks like some odd OO kinda system
09:33 aidy: why?
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09:40 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org --  logs @ http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs
09:40 (names) -: gabot kmc ernst_ bill_h sindoc1 EmmanuelOga jeapostrophe masm veer karswell ahinki Shviller Blkt cataska AlbireoX kandinski mario-goulart freakazoid jschuster_away stchang noelw SeanTAllen aidy hyko ozzloy m4burns jrslepak_ samth_away shachaf Kartagisz dspt jamessan eli ChaozZBubi PfhatWork bfulgham acarrico elliottcable stamourv zerokarmaleft Oxryly rsimoes shadgregory SHODAN bremner Shvillr cipher sethalves abbe snorble gf3 danking tauntaun @ChanServ tonyg
09:40 (names) -: cky rudybot offby1_ petey` asumu em eMBee _p4bl0 GeneralMaximus mattmight chandler rapacity offby1
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16:33 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org --  logs @ http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs
16:33 (names) -: gabot jonrafkind sstrickl dsantiago jeapostrophe kanak stchang stamourv danking kmc ernst bill_h masm karswell Shviller cataska AlbireoX kandinski mario-goulart freakazoid jschuster_away noelw SeanTAllen aidy hyko ozzloy m4burns jrslepak_ samth shachaf Kartagisz dspt jamessan eli ChaozZBubi PfhatWork bfulgham acarrico elliottcable zerokarmaleft Oxryly rsimoes shadgregory SHODAN bremner Shvillr cipher sethalves abbe snorble gf3 tauntaun @ChanServ tonyg cky
16:33 (names) -: rudybot offby1_ petey` asumu em eMBee _p4bl0 GeneralMaximus mattmight chandler rapacity offby1
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17:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/0kqFJQ
17:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Caching with weak boxes, cleanup, planet download icon - Neil Toronto
17:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Contract fix - Neil Toronto
17:24 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Rewrote flomaps and rendering in Typed Racket for speed and safety - Neil Toronto
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18:49 CurryMan: Hey there. Interesting question: How would you write a function in very low-level student language that consumes four integers, the first of which is either 0,1 or 2. The function produces the second integer if the first = 0, the third if it's 1 and the fourth if its 2.... all WITHOUT using cond or if? A guy in the class beneath me asked me (it's on his assignment) but I couldn't figure it out! Any ideas, for my own curiosity ?
18:51 CurryMan: I'm thinking it's got to be some mathematical function  but I don't know.
18:52 jonrafkind: something like b * first + a * first-1 + c * first-2, eh
18:52 jonrafkind: hm..
18:53 CurryMan: I was thinking something with exponents but it's killing me. Now that I've been sidetracked by this, I'm not going to work on my own Calc III problem set until I figure it out :P
18:54 CurryMan: Or maybe putting the three integers a,b,c in a list and somehow calling out whichever place is (i-1)th in the list?
18:54 jonrafkind: this sounds like a strictly number theory related problem, rather than something to do with CS
18:54 jonrafkind: yea if you had list-ref you could do (list-ref (list a b c) first)
18:55 jonrafkind: or maybe its called nth
18:55 CurryMan: The guy said it was bonus problem. I remember the course well, all the bonus problems were mathy. Don't have list-ref, they're super low-level student.
18:55 jonrafkind: seems its there, list-ref
18:55 jonrafkind: its in beginning student
18:55 CurryMan: really? Oh.
18:58 cky: So, I'd like to write a circular list literal. Example: #0=(1 2 3 . #0#).
18:58 CurryMan: Hm. I'm kinda bummed. I was hoping there was a clever math-y way to do it. Actually there has to be because he mentioned the rules stipulate that they can't use anything they haven't covered and he mentioned they didn't even get to lists yet.
18:58 cky: rudybot: (write '#0=(1 2 3 . #0#))
18:58 rudybot: cky: you can write a function to do that.  CEDET is providing you a suitable API that makes it easy to manipulate semantic tags.
18:59 cky: rudybot: eval (write '#0=(1 2 3 . #0#))
18:59 rudybot: cky: error: #<undefined>:1:8: read: #..= expressions not allowed in read-syntax mode
18:59 cky: But see, that's not possible. Instead I have to use, say, read.
18:59 cky: rudybot: (write (call-with-input-string "#0=(1 2 3 . #0#)" read))
18:59 rudybot: cky: ; stdout: "#0=(1 2 3 . #0#)"
18:59 cky: So, is there a better way?
19:02 samth: rudybot: (require racket/shared)
19:02 rudybot: samth: your sandbox is ready
19:02 rudybot: samth: Done.
19:02 samth: rudybot: (shared ([x (append (list 1 2 3) x)]) x)
19:02 rudybot: samth: ; Value: #0=(1 2 3 . #0#)
19:03 samth: cky: ta da
19:03 cky: samth: :-O
19:03 cky: Wow, that's like letrec for data structures. :-)
19:03 samth: cky: yup
19:04 samth: rudybot: doc shared
19:04 rudybot: samth: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/shared.html#(form._((lib._racket%2Fshared..rkt)._shared))
19:04 cky: Cool. Thanks! I learnt something new. :-)
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19:09 Oxryly: can someone here answer some questions about racket modules and namespaces and load?
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19:12 samth: Oxryly: sure
19:13 Oxryly: samth: cool, I have an implementation of a domain specific language that is a superset of scheme/racket
19:14 Oxryly: in that implementation, I do a (load "<myfile>.dc")
19:14 jonrafkind: 1000 racketers groan at the usage of 'load'..
19:14 Oxryly: during that load I capture 'define'ed things into internal lists, massage those things then export them as binary data
19:15 Oxryly: jonrafkind: yes, that's my motivation for making a change ;)
19:15 Oxryly: so, I'm wondering if there's a better way (using require?)
19:16 jonrafkind: use require
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19:17 samth: Oxryly: yes, use require
19:17 Oxryly: ok, but I'm doing the load in an expression context right now in order to capture those definitions...
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19:18 Oxryly: in particular at the repl someone can type (make "file.dc") and that must read+eval the file then export certain definitions
19:18 Oxryly: "require: not at modujle level or top level in: ..."
19:19 Oxryly: I feel like I'm working from the wrong point of view
19:22 Oxryly: I have created a problem I cannot solve.......
19:26 CurryMan: For anyone interested in the question I asked - you can write the function as a Lagrange polynomial in one line :D neat.
19:27 jonrafkind: lulz
19:27 jonrafkind: I dont even know what that is
19:27 CurryMan: Also, unrelated... Can I somehow modify (random) to produce a bias distribution?
19:27 CurryMan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_polynomial
19:29 Oxryly: so anyone have any advice on doing a require within an expression context?
19:30 cky: Oxryly: You mean you want to require a module that isn't specified as a literal?
19:30 jonrafkind: CurryMan, I think you can do the original problem just wth and's and or's
19:30 cky: If so, my first question for you is...why?!
19:30 jonrafkind: (or (and (= first 0) a) (and (= first 1) b)) (and (= first 2) c))
19:31 Oxryly: cky: yeah that's the issue. right now do it can be invoked on the REPL
19:31 Oxryly: cky: searching for other reasons... this is a larg-ish legacy Scheme codebase
19:31 CurryMan: I should mention that it is for an assignment but I've already submitted for full points, so it's no biggie. Basically, we're playing a guess game where there's an implementation module that generates a random number between 1 and n. My task was to write something that guesses that number and produces the total number of guesses it took. My first approach was to start at 1 and increment, counting along the way until I got the correct answe
19:31 CurryMan: second approach, for the bonus, was to randomly pick a number in the range,  if it was wrong, it added that number to a list and recursed. If it was correct it returns the length of that list. I got full points for that approach but I the prof mentioned that when they test the bonus, they don't choose a random number, they pick something usually close to n, so I was hoping to write something that would consume even fewer guess knowing that
19:32 CurryMan: jonrafkind: But that would still require a cond cause the result of that is a boolean, no?
19:33 jonrafkind: what does a cond have to do with it
19:33 jonrafkind: rudybot (= 2 3)
19:33 jonrafkind: rudybot: (= 2 3)
19:33 rudybot: jonrafkind: your sandbox is ready
19:33 rudybot: jonrafkind: ; Value: #f
19:33 CurryMan: rudybot (and #t 8)
19:33 CurryMan: oops...
19:34 CurryMan: What does (and #t 9) return?
19:34 jonrafkind: rudybot: (let ([first 2] [a 8] [b 12] [c 100]) (or (and (= first 0) a)) (and (= first 1) b)) (and (= first 2) c)))
19:34 rudybot: jonrafkind: Well. I’m using a nightly build and yas 0.6.1c.
19:34 jonrafkind: #t
19:34 jonrafkind: no wait, 9
19:34 jonrafkind: heh
19:34 CurryMan: rudybot: (random 50)
19:34 rudybot: CurryMan: your sandbox is ready
19:34 rudybot: CurryMan: ; Value: 45
19:34 jonrafkind: anything thats not #f is considered #t in racket
19:35 jonrafkind: rudybot: (and #t 5)
19:35 rudybot: jonrafkind: ; Value: 5
19:35 jonrafkind: rudybot: (and #f 5)
19:35 rudybot: jonrafkind: ; Value: #f
19:35 CurryMan: In student level as well ?
19:35 jonrafkind: hm.. good question
19:35 CurryMan: nope.. just checked :P
19:36 CurryMan: So any idea on modifying random to produce a bias distribution?
19:36 CurryMan: *biased rather
19:36 jonrafkind: I doubt its in the standard racket utilities..
19:36 CurryMan: Bummer
19:37 jonrafkind: it might bein doug williams science collection
19:37 CurryMan: hmm
19:38 samth: Oxryly: what is the value produced by the thing you're loading?
19:43 Oxryly: samth: its a record instance
19:44 samth: Oxryly: why not provide it under a particular name
19:44 samth: then you can just require it
19:44 samth: and reference the name
19:44 samth: or use `dynamic-require'
19:44 Oxryly: ah, dynamic-require... forgot about that one.
19:45 Oxryly: unfortunately I need to extract a list of the things provided or defined by what I'm loading in order to export them
19:46 samth: hmm
19:46 samth: this is where the "large legacy code base" comes in
19:47 Oxryly: yeah, this is the system Matthew Flatt referenced in his CACM article. We use it making the Uncharted series of PS3 games.
19:48 Oxryly: I put it together coming from a pretty spare r5rs viewpoint
19:48 jonrafkind: you worked on unchared?
19:48 jonrafkind: uncharted*
19:48 Oxryly: yup
19:50 samth: Oxryly: i'm still not 100% clear on what exactly you're doing with load
19:50 jonrafkind: was that the game that a presentation was made about it talking about scripting with racket?
19:51 Oxryly: samth: using it to read+eval a file that is in a superset of scheme while 'define' is rebound to something that adds definitions to my internal lists
19:51 Oxryly: jonrafkind: that's the one
19:51 samth: Oxryly: ah, ok
19:51 samth: that's much easier, ironically
19:52 samth: you should rebind `define' to something that mutates the internal lists, and then just use require
19:52 Oxryly: I just finished hooking up to the PS3's dev tools using the new FFI. pretty cool.
19:52 jonrafkind: im jealous that you probably have access to the official ps3 sdk.. I have to use psl1ght :/
19:52 samth: alternatively, you could have the language create a list, put the definitions in the list, and then export the result
19:53 samth: but i have to go
19:53 Oxryly: samth: ok... and I use dynamic-require since I need to use it in a expression context....
19:53 samth: yes
19:53 samth: Oxryly: i recommend an email to the mailing list about your issue, though, so that someone can provide a more complete answer with slightly higher latency :)
19:53 Oxryly: samth: cool, thanks. see you later.
19:53 (nick) samth -> samth_away
19:55 Oxryly: jonrafkind: yes... I'm doing first party development
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21:46 offby1: Party development!
21:46 offby1 turns up the music
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