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00:19 Hugglesworth: any haskell peeps here?
00:19 Hugglesworth: I'm trying to convert haskell into scheme
00:19 Hugglesworth: and I'm having a lot of trouble finding equivilant functions
00:19 freakazoid: We tried that already. They wouldn't let us.
00:20 Hugglesworth: >_>
00:22 Hugglesworth: I still have to find things like haskell's takeWhile, dropWhile, and span
00:22 Hugglesworth: takeWhile and dropWhile look easy enough ot hack together
00:23 Hugglesworth: span is pretty much partition, but it should be keeping the order
00:23 Hugglesworth: is there any way to do that easily?
00:24 Hugglesworth: by keeping the order, I mean actuallying partitioning when the condition goes false
00:28 Hugglesworth: shachaf: xu djuno
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00:58 shachaf: Hugglesworth: What are you trying to do exactly?
00:58 shachaf: Haskell's lists are pretty different from Scheme's lists.
00:59 Hugglesworth: true
00:59 Hugglesworth: I have to write an infix expression to postfix converter
00:59 shachaf: Also most other things are different. :-)
00:59 Hugglesworth: it's still functional code based around lists
00:59 Hugglesworth: the logic should be the same
01:00 shachaf: Why are you converting Haskell code to do it rather than using some Scheme code that does it?
01:00 Hugglesworth: because then I'd have to write it in scheme first
01:01 Hugglesworth: and I'm only really used to haskell for functional logic
01:01 Hugglesworth: (this is for a class BTW)
01:01 shachaf: I would vaguely think that you'd do it in a rather different style.
01:03 Hugglesworth: I mean, the logic seems to transfer over fairly easily
01:03 Hugglesworth: all I'm really missing out on is a few functions for easily handling and splitting lists
01:05 freakazoid: Hugglesworth: You may also find it helpful to use Lazy Racket
01:05 freakazoid: if any of your code relies on Haskell's laziness.
01:05 Hugglesworth: none of it does
01:05 freakazoid: Oh, if it's for a class it would probably be cheating anyway
01:06 freakazoid: (to use lazy racket)
01:06 Hugglesworth: maybe
01:06 Hugglesworth: he said were were supposed to use "Big" something
01:06 Hugglesworth: can't remember the name
01:06 freakazoid: I would be surprised if partition, dropWhile, and takeWhile didn't exist
01:07 Hugglesworth: yeah
01:09 freakazoid: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/pairs.html has a pretty large number of functions that can be combined to do pretty much anything with lists
01:09 Hugglesworth: yeah, I looked through a whole bunch on that page
01:11 freakazoid: Isn't "big" just #lang racket?
01:11 Hugglesworth: maybe
01:13 Hugglesworth: additional question, how do I use brackets in a list?
01:13 Hugglesworth: `(+ - #\()) // but I don't think that's right
01:14 Hugglesworth: err, extra paren on there
01:14 freakazoid: My company just hired the author of Real World Haskell
01:15 freakazoid: what do you mean by using brackets in a list?
01:15 freakazoid: a bracket character would be, as you typed, #\(
01:15 freakazoid: but character is a specific datatype
01:16 freakazoid: and that's a character while the other two there are symbols
01:16 freakazoid: a symbol that was an open-paren would be |(|
01:16 freakazoid: but I'm not sure why you'd want such a thing.
01:17 Hugglesworth: I'm matching out of a string
01:18 Hugglesworth: should they all be characters instead of symbols?
01:18 freakazoid: yeah
01:18 Hugglesworth: k
01:18 freakazoid: you might want to use regular expressions if you're allowed
01:18 Hugglesworth: I think we are
01:18 Hugglesworth: hadn't thought of that
01:21 Hugglesworth: freakazoid: is your company the one doing the email thingy? or am I thinking too far back?
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01:27 freakazoid: His was. MailRank
01:27 freakazoid: We bought them for their people.
01:28 freakazoid: well, and their knowledge, since we're doing a similar messagey thing.
01:28 Hugglesworth: cool
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01:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 9 new commits to master: http://git.io/0AUW0Q
01:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Click and drag to zoom 2D plots - Neil Toronto
01:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Plot snips no longer get focus - Neil Toronto
01:59 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Focus tweaks to capture off-snip movement; account for split editor - Neil Toronto
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03:54 Blkt: good morning everyone
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04:08 loz`: hi, where can i find racket api?
04:08 (quit) SidH_: Remote host closed the connection
04:08 mithos28: loz`: The documentation is available at docs.racket-lang.org
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04:09 loz`: mithos28: what about modules/functions list or index?
04:09 mithos28: There is a search box on top of the page. I don't think there is one page with everything on it.
04:10 mithos28: Is there something in particular you are looking for?
04:11 loz`: i'm looking for multidimensional vector's manipulation
04:11 noelw: loz': numeric vectors?
04:11 loz`: yes
04:12 noelw: I have some old code on github
04:13 noelw: I want to update it, but haven't found the time
04:13 noelw: https://github.com/noelwelsh
04:13 noelw: mzgsl or numeric
04:13 noelw: depending on what you want to do
04:15 loz`: well, i'g going to make life game
04:15 loz`: *i'm
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04:16 mithos28: loz`: A possibility might be to use a hash for a multidimensional vector
04:16 mithos28: you lose bounds and size information, but it easy to set up
04:16 loz`: btw what the difference between vectors with numbers or anything else? vector is just a container, isnt' it?
04:17 mithos28: loz`: there are some specific 'vectors' that are only for numbers like fxvector and flvector
04:17 mithos28: which are faster for those, but normal vectors don't care what is put inside them
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08:37 Shviller: Guys, is it a sane idea to use a generator to consume values instead of producing them? I want to encapsulate a chunk of code that proceses a sequence, only instead of pulling values from it it waits for the next value to become available.
08:37 Shviller: It seems that since 4.2.5 generators can be used like that. The question is, should they? And if not, what should I use instead?
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08:45 kenjin_: Hello, I need to do some works with matrices like what Numpy package in Python does. Can Racket help those jobs?
08:48 noelw: https://github.com/noelwelsh
08:48 noelw: p
08:48 noelw: ackages mzgsl and/or numeric
08:49 noelw: It's a bit old; not sure if it still runs
08:49 kenjin_: Thank you. I'll try
08:54 noelw: Let me know how you get on. I want to return to that code but I just haven't had time
08:55 kenjin_: I'm installing mzgsl through planet. DrRacket shows some "red" letters.
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09:27 kewne: Hi.
09:29 kewne: I know it's a small thing but I'm happy my first Racket program is progressing.
09:30 kewne: So I would like to share the first image it generated. :)
09:30 kewne: http://i.imgur.com/qK0N0.png
09:32 noelw: Looks great!
09:33 kewne: Thanks. :))
09:34 kewne: racket/cmdline really helps.
09:34 kewne: So I can do: chess-plot position --dark-square-color ... --size ... etc... and customize the output.
09:35 kewne: That would really be a pain to parse manually.
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10:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/Wht04g
10:09 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] rename contract-generate to contract-random-generate - Robby Findler
10:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/MG--1w
10:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add hook to force a minor GC - Matthew Flatt
10:14 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix GC bug in futures when a blocking result is a tail call - Matthew Flatt
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10:31 epsil: there's something I really don't get about immutable data structures
10:31 epsil: if one always has to return a new object instead of modifying one, isn't there a lot of overhead with regard to copying?
10:31 epsil: say I want to write my own routine for pushing an element to the beginning of a list (simple example)
10:32 epsil: with a mutable list, I'd make a quick modification to the beginning of the list and be done with it (an O(1) operation, the details don't matter)
10:32 epsil: with an immutable list, I have to create a new list and copy all the old elements over (an O(n) operation ...)
10:32 epsil: to take things further, if I write a procedure which recurs down a list, then there's going to be a lot of O(n) copying -- one per function call
10:32 epsil: i.e., I get O(n * n) for the immutable list, versus O(1 * n) for the mutable list
10:32 noelw: Not adding an element to the beginning of a list… but for adding to the end of a list
10:32 epsil: am I missing something?
10:33 noelw: There are lots of interesting functional data structures that are immutable while have costs O(log n) or better for typical operations.
10:33 noelw: You'll find some on Planet (planet.racket-lang.org)
10:34 epsil: so (cons 'a list) is an O(1) operation even for immutable lists?
10:34 noelw: Yes
10:34 epsil: interesting
10:34 epsil: how does that work?
10:34 noelw: It's a singly linked list
10:35 noelw: a cons cell contains a value and a pointer to the rest of the list
10:35 epsil: hm
10:35 epsil: so behind the scenes, several immutable lists may share the same links?
10:35 noelw: Yes.
10:35 noelw: (define tail (list 1 2 3))
10:35 noelw: (define list1 (cons 'hi tail))
10:36 noelw: (define list2 (cons 'bye tail))
10:36 noelw: tail is not copied
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10:36 epsil: so you've just created a tree there :)
10:37 epsil: in a sense
10:37 noelw: Not in the usual sense, but yes
10:37 Shviller: Yeah, a tree no one can observe. Does it make a sound when it falls?
10:37 epsil: lol
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11:06 kewne: If I recall correctly, most (all?) Clojure data structures are immutable, but their updates don't copy the whole thing.
11:08 noelw: If you're interested in immutable data structures, start here: http://www.eecs.usma.edu/webs/people/okasaki/pubs.html
11:10 noelw: Also see persistent data structures
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11:11 noelw: Ok, enough lecturing from me
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11:13 noelw: laters
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13:08 Ipquarx: hi
13:09 Ipquarx: I need help with the Racket program
13:09 Ipquarx: Whenever i use it, it's very laggy and slow. Is there a way to fix this?
13:11 Ipquarx: Hello?
13:12 Ipquarx: Ugh, I don't have time for this.
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14:38 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/aP8BhA
14:38 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] missed one place to rename contract-generate - Robby Findler
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15:14 ozzloy: rudybot, (equal? #px"a" #px"a")
15:14 rudybot: ozzloy: your sandbox is ready
15:14 rudybot: ozzloy: ; Value: #f
15:15 jonrafkind: rofl
15:15 jonrafkind: rudybot, (equal? #rx"a" #rx"a")
15:15 rudybot: jonrafkind: your sandbox is ready
15:15 rudybot: jonrafkind: ; Value: #f
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15:17 ozzloy: jonrafkind, any idea how to check for regex equality?
15:17 jonrafkind: hm
15:17 ozzloy: i don't see anything obvious in the guide TOC
15:19 jonrafkind: yea thats too bad really
15:19 jonrafkind: maybe it can be added if you ask on the list
15:19 samth: rudybot:  (object-name #px"a")
15:19 rudybot: samth: your racket/init sandbox is ready
15:19 rudybot: samth: ; Value: "a"
15:19 samth: rudybot:  (object-name #rx"a")
15:19 rudybot: samth: ; Value: "a"
15:19 samth: ozzloy: you can use that
15:20 ozzloy: rudybot, (equal? (object-name #rx"a") (object-name #rx"a"))
15:20 rudybot: ozzloy: ; Value: #t
15:20 jonrafkind: could equal? be extended to work with regexes?
15:20 samth: jonrafkind: what would it mean?
15:21 samth: ozzloy: note that that method will equate some px and rx regular expressions that aren't the same
15:21 jonrafkind: cal object-name on the regex's and (equal?) on the result
15:21 ozzloy: the trivial interpretation of are the regexes exactly the same?
15:21 ozzloy: not whether they match exactly the same set and don't match exactly the same set
15:22 ozzloy: i take it this question has come up before and given due consideration
15:23 ozzloy: i could use pregexp? i guess
15:25 samth: at the moment, you should test that they're the same kind of regexp and that they have the same `object-name'
15:25 ozzloy: yeah, i'm going to do that.  looking at docs for "object-name" right now
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15:30 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://git.io/1665qA
15:30 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix treatment of caps lock in keymap% - Matthew Flatt
15:30 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] cocoa: make sure app wakes up on file event - Matthew Flatt
15:30 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] racket/class: add `send/keyword-apply' - Matthew Flatt
15:32 ozzloy: would this be a users or dev question
15:39 samth: ozzloy: either way, really
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16:15 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/nbYnmA
16:15 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] contract random cleanup - Robby Findler
16:15 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add some debugging to see if I get more useful info for the module language test intermeittent failure - Robby Findler
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16:52 mithos28: has the new version of planet made any progress or is it still in the planning stages?
16:52 jonrafkind: i havent heard anything about it
16:54 samth: still planning
16:55 samth: i think there are a number of things it's waiting on
16:55 samth: (a) matthew supporting facets/submodules/etc
16:55 samth: (b) a new packaging system
16:55 samth: then (c) planet 2.0
16:56 mithos28: ok, I just remember all these cool things from RacketCon and wanted to see how they actually worked
16:56 mithos28: but it looks like I'll still have to wait
16:57 mithos28: has the typed ffi made any progress?
16:57 jonrafkind: was that discussed at racketcon?
16:58 mithos28: no, sam had mentioned that he was working on something to me when I was trying to use the ffi in TR a month or two ago
16:59 ozzloy: is racketcon an annual thing?
16:59 jonrafkind: yea
16:59 mithos28: but there has only been the first annual one right?
16:59 jonrafkind: there was one last year but it was somewhat internal
16:59 mithos28: ah
17:00 jonrafkind: well 2 years ago there was a purely internal one, then last year there was one that was semi-internal (some outside people were invited)
17:01 mithos28: well that would explain why I didn't know about them
17:01 samth: i wouldn't even describe them as the same thing as racketcon
17:01 samth: but yes, we're doing racketcon again next year
17:02 samth: no, no progress on typed ffi -- i should get back to that
17:02 mithos28: will the videos from this year be out before then?
17:02 jonrafkind: thats a hot topic button
17:03 ozzloy: i'd like to go to the next one and i am only an 8 hour drive from where the last one was
17:04 ozzloy: http://www.youtube.com/user/nuACM/ mithos28
17:04 ozzloy: look for ones with matthias felleisen and other racketeers
17:05 ozzloy: i'm just guessing
17:06 mithos28: ozzloy: I don't see them.
17:06 ozzloy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3be1PHW5X0
17:06 mithos28: I don't think that one is from racketcon
17:07 samth: yeah, while that's a nice lecture, it's not from racketcon
17:07 ozzloy: maybe i guessed wrong.  also that's the only one i can see
17:07 samth: i certainly plan for the videos to be up by then
17:07 mithos28: I was there, I was just teasing them that there have been many troubles getting them up
17:08 ozzloy: i'd like to see the data collected about teaching using HtDP
17:08 ozzloy: ah
17:08 mithos28: Is it going to be at Northeastern again in 2012?
17:08 ozzloy: i'd like to see them too
17:13 samth: mithos28: probably
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19:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/IdoKAg
19:43 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add another printf for drdr's consumption - Robby Findler
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21:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: http://git.io/tVkwsA
21:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Arrows disappear immediately upon scroll; reduce scroll delay - Neil Toronto
21:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Moved some flonum stuff (e.g. flatan2, flnext, +max.0, +min.0, etc.) to unstable/flonum (will document in another commit) - Neil Toronto
21:02 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Fixed some tests - Neil Toronto
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22:09 Pauan: Hey, uh, I'm not sure if this is the proper place to discuss this, but I've been working on an Arc compiler (written in Racket, of course), and I've run into a couple issues:
22:09 Pauan: ---
22:09 Pauan: 1) Modules don't allow for redefining global variables. In other words, if a module defines a global function "foo", then you can't redefine "foo" later on; you get the error "set!: cannot mutate module-required identifier in: foo".
22:09 Pauan: This is important because I want the Arc compiler to be in the Arc namespace, so that it's possible to hack the compiler from within Arc.
22:09 Pauan: I can, of course, write the compiler inside of Arc, but that's really verbose and clunky. It's also probably a bit slower. So I'd really like to be able to write the Arc compiler in Racket, and then "namespace-require" it into Arc's namespace.
22:09 Pauan: I tried setting the "compile-enforce-module-constants" parameter to #f before requiring the module, but that doesn't seem to help. I'm guessing this is something that requires changes on Racket's side, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
22:09 Pauan: ---
22:09 Pauan: 2) make-keyword-procedure doesn't work with inferred names. In other words, this function:
22:09 Pauan: (define foo (make-keyword-procedure (lambda ...)))
22:09 Pauan: Doesn't have the name "foo" like I want. And you can't use procedure-rename to change its name either, because that breaks the keyword functionality.
22:11 Pauan: Ah, procedure-rename not working with keyword procedures seems to be a bug in mzscheme 4... upgrading to Racket 5 seems to fix the problem. My first issue still seems to be there, though.
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23:15 asumu: Pauan: Do you mean you want to set! a binding within a module? Because that's possible.
23:15 asumu: If you want to set! a binding in another module you are requiring, I'm not sure that's possible.
23:15 Pauan: yeah, that's what I figured
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23:18 asumu: Pauan: In particular, the docs for set! state "              Racket's side, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
23:18 asumu: Whoops
23:18 asumu: "If id refers to an imported binding, a syntax error is reported."
23:18 asumu: (sorry on Windows and pasting in Cygwin is weird)
23:20 asumu: Pauan: Also see http://pre.racket-lang.org/docs/html/guide/module-set.html
23:21 Pauan: Yes, but it also says "compile-enforce-module-constants" can be used to mark the global variables as constant or not, which led me to believe that by setting it to #f, it would let me rebind module variables. That doesn't seem to be the case.
23:21 Pauan: I already saw that page, thanks.
23:22 Pauan: So unless there's a better way of doing things, I'd like some way to enable redefining global variables in a module, for instance by setting a parameter, with the implication that the compiler would then generate slower code.
23:22 Pauan: If that's too much work on the Racket side, then I'll just stick with what I have for now.
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