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02:10 aidy: hi
02:10 mithos28: aidy: hello
02:10 aidy: is anyone using emacs with quack?
02:10 aidy: I installed it and have (require 'quack) in my .emacs, but I'm not sure how to progress from that
02:11 mithos28: I don't use emacs
02:11 jonrafkind: another internet customer helped out!
02:11 mithos28: I like my vim
02:12 jonrafkind: dont let matthias hear you say that
02:12 jonrafkind: he gets mad when i say it
02:12 mithos28: well I'm glad am far away from him then
02:12 aidy: I'm a vim user, but I want to learn emacs too
02:12 mithos28: aidy: if no one here knows anything, you might try the mailing list
02:13 mithos28: users@racket-lang.org
02:13 aidy: okay :)
02:13 mithos28: also most people here are on EST, so are all asleep
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05:13 noelw: aidy: still here?
05:14 noelw: try this: http://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/other-editors.html
05:14 noelw: It's never to late to repent and learn Emacs
05:14 noelw: s/to/too
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06:08 Blkt: (a late) good morning everyone
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08:32 aidy: noelw: thanks
08:33 noelw: Hi! np.
08:34 aidy: I've got quack installed but emacs doesn't switch to scheme-mode when i open a .rkt file, not sure  what's up with that
08:35 aidy: I'll check out geiser too though :)
08:45 noelw: Ok, you need to associate quack with racket
08:46 noelw: (add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("\\.rkt$" . scheme-mode))
08:46 noelw: In your .emacs
09:04 Shviller: Hi again, guys. I need a really simple unhygienic macro. I specificlally want to bind a particular identifier instead of maintaining lexical scope. Where do I look for this?
09:06 noelw: You can break syntax within syntax-case
09:06 noelw: I mean "break hygiene"
09:06 noelw: http://community.schemewiki.org/?syntax-case-examples
09:07 noelw: Third example
09:08 Shviller: wow, expression highlighting on that site.
09:10 Shviller: I have trouble grokking that example. Sorry about that.
09:10 noelw: Didn't notice that at first. Pretty cool.
09:11 noelw: Basically, you create a new identifier with (datum->syntax-object scope name)
09:11 noelw: scope is the syntax the identifier is in scope for
09:11 noelw: name is … the name
09:11 noelw: with-syntax is like let for macros
09:11 noelw: it binds names to values
09:11 noelw: just like let
09:12 noelw: but those names are names you can use in patterns
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09:12 Shviller: Can I use that in a define-syntax-rule? There's only one pattern, so I hoped I wouldn't need define-syntax.
09:12 noelw: patterns which are written within the syntax form
09:13 noelw: Nope, because define-syntax-rule expands into syntax-rules, which doesn't allow you to break hygience
09:14 noelw: However!
09:14 noelw: syntax-rules just expands into syntax-case
09:14 noelw: So if you understand syntax-rules you are just a few lines away from syntax-case
09:14 noelw: and then you just need to add the (with-syntax …) in the right place
09:14 noelw: and you've written a non-hygienic macro
09:14 noelw: It's simpler then it seems at first glance
09:15 noelw: From the docs:
09:15 noelw: (syntax-rules (literal-id ...)
09:15 noelw: [(id . pattern) template] ...)
09:15 noelw: Equivalent to
09:15 noelw: (lambda (stx)
09:15 noelw: (syntax-case stx (literal-id ...)
09:15 noelw: [(generated-id . pattern) (syntax-protect #'template)]  ...))
09:15 noelw: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/stx-patterns.html?q=define-syntax-rule#(form._((lib._racket/private/stxcase-scheme..rkt)._syntax-rules))
09:15 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/6t2sj2a
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10:04 Shviller: Okay, (I think) I got it working, but it looks bloated: http://pastebin.com/CrdjCSR1 (sorry for the unconventional formatting)
10:04 Shviller: Is that really the simplest way to do it?
10:07 Shviller: Aha, and the obvious answer is 'no'.
10:08 noelw: What do have against with-syntax?
10:08 noelw: Your implementation is certainly unconventional
10:08 noelw: But it looks ok
10:08 noelw: apparent from all those crazy brackets.
10:09 Shviller: Okay, a more streamlined version, but still with those brackets: http://pastebin.com/J0Wq0DXC
10:10 noelw: my eyes!!!!
10:10 Shviller: I found this: http://blog.racket-lang.org/2011/04/writing-syntax-case-macros.html and I jumped at the first example that was close enough to what I wanted to do, hence the absence of with-syntax.
10:10 noelw: Yeah, that looks ok
10:11 Shviller: Ouchie, looks like my coding style plus wrong syntax highlighting = eye-melting #%$^&
10:11 Shviller: D%
10:13 Shviller: Sorry for the hurty eyes.
10:13 Shviller: So, is this the way I'm supposed to be doing this?
10:14 noelw: Yes, it looks good
10:14 noelw: Idiomatic, apart from the layout
10:15 noelw: Breaking hygiene is inconvenient in syntax-case, but that is intentional I think
10:15 Shviller: Yeah, rarely a good idea to break hygiene, probably.
10:16 (part) tyson1
10:16 Shviller: I think I even understand what is going on in that macro. Thanks for the help!
10:17 noelw: Groovy!
10:19 Shviller: And I think I'm slowly getting better at reading conventionally layed out Lisp/Scheme code. Still can't get used to deep indenting (feels like a waste of horizontal space), but I probably will soon be able to at least put all the closing parens on the proper line. :)
10:23 noelw: You can avoid deep nesting with internal defines
10:23 noelw: They are allowed almost anywhere in Racket
10:24 Shviller: Yeah, nested definitions rock. I missed them since the times I used Pascal. :D Granted, they're more powerful in Racket, but you get the idea.
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10:51 keenbug: hi
10:51 keenbug: does anybody know how to start an interactive repl for r6rs scheme with racket on the terminal?
10:54 asumu: Shviller: Are you using DrRacket or some other editor? Auto paren matching + paren navigation might help you get used to idiomatic layout.
10:55 asumu: (there's an option in DrRacket for that and you can use paredit for emacs or vim)
10:56 Shviller: asumu: I'm mostly using SciTE. DrRacket seems quite laggy for some reason. And I could get into neither Emacs nor Vim. Having a learning wall instead of a curve isn't fun.
10:57 asumu: Oh okay, fair enough.
10:58 Shviller: BTW, _why_ is DrRacket laggy? Can I do something about it?
10:59 asumu: It seems to vary wildly from person to person and platform to platform. If you have a particular reproducible setup, try asking on the mailing list.
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10:59 asumu: e.g. it runs without much lag on my machine.
10:59 asumu: (though it eats up tons of memory)
10:59 Shviller: Well, 300Mb is preatty meager to what Firefox does. ;D
11:00 Shviller: *compared to
11:00 Shviller: *pretty
11:01 Shviller: (I should really pay more attention to... well, everything)
11:06 Shviller: Speaking of DrRacket, is there a way to have that nice graphical REPL, capable of drawing sierpinski triangles and concatenating squares, without waiting to the whole monster to start up?
11:18 noelw: Yeah. Run racket :)
11:18 noelw: Since the graphics engine was rewritten you don't need to run DrRacket / MrEd / gracket to get graphics
11:20 Shviller: Well, I can get it in separate windows, sure, but what about pics mixed with code right in the same window? racket.exe is a console app, no? I'm dreaming of something TermKit-like.
11:21 noelw: ok, I think you have to use DrRacket for that
11:22 Shviller: Is it possible to separate that functionality from the rest of DrRacket? I guess that'd result in gracket on steroids.
11:23 Shviller: Speaking purely theoretical here. Not gonna do it anytime soon, not gonna ask anyone to do it either.
11:24 noelw: I'm sure it is.
11:24 noelw: \
11:24 noelw: The graphical elements are called snips
11:24 noelw: They have a display method, or something similar
11:24 noelw: I guess you could rig up something to just display them on a canvas
11:25 Shviller: All right. I'll probably try it once I'm more comfortable with Racket. Which probably will take a year, given how much of a slowpoke I am.
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11:50 Guest37710: hello there
11:51 Guest37710: I would like to know how to insert an element to the end of a list without using append
11:52 noelw: Write your own version of append?
11:54 Guest37710: I'm just wondering if I should do that, because when I use cons it will insert the new element at the beginning of the list
11:55 keenbug: Guest37710: if you want to do it in a functional style (that means without altering the already existing list) you have to rebuild the whole list
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11:56 keenbug: Guest37710: and this in turn will result in the same as using append
11:56 Guest37710: I'm gonna do that
11:56 Guest37710: yeah its pointless but my teacher does that kind of things during a test
11:58 keenbug: Guest37710: the solution is creating the list with the element you want to append and to prepend the elements from your first list to this list
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14:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 5 new commits to master: http://git.io/MgrKtA
14:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] prefer poll() to select() on Linux - Matthew Flatt
14:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix problem with background thread for address lookup - Matthew Flatt
14:37 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] change handling of blocking I/O to collapse sources to a single poll - Matthew Flatt
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15:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 28 new commits to master: http://git.io/gN8g5A
15:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Adjusted appx. plot bound fixpoint computation; fixes a layout issue with multiple function renderers - Neil Toronto
15:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Split up tests to keep DrDr from timing out - Neil Toronto
15:19 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] Finished first draft of tick/axis overhaul - Neil Toronto
15:35 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/ouEUZQ
15:35 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] fix bytecode compiler bug - Matthew Flatt
17:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/5vp24g
17:32 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] add a bunch of tests to the module language test suite based on test cases in the repl test suite - Robby Findler
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18:34 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/jjDtvA
18:34 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] allow %racket expressions to remain inside honu syntax and remove them after parsing - Jon Rafkind
18:34 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] [honu] parse bodies of macros early. re-parse the output of macros - Jon Rafkind
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22:03 haruki_zaemon: Hi all, I have a web app I want to deploy. Is there a way to bundle all deps up as a binary so I can deploy onto shared hosting?
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22:03 WUSTL: hello
22:03 PiRSquared17: Hi
22:04 WUSTL: would anyone be able to help me with some racket code im having some problems :/
22:04 PiRSquared17: sure :)
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22:04 WUSTL: i'm trying to rewrite a normal fibonacci function in CPS
22:05 WUSTL: right now i have this and i'm not sure why it is not working
22:05 WUSTL: (define (fib/k n k)   (case n     [(0) (k 0)]     [(1) (k 1)]     [else (fib/k ((lambda (x) (fib/k (lambda (y) (k (+ x y))) (- n 2)))) (- n 1))]))
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22:11 WUSTL: no one knows can help? ._>
22:11 PiRSquared17: WUSTL What is k supposed to be?
22:12 PiRSquared17: WUSTL I'm sure someone here or in #scheme can help
22:12 haruki_zaemon: I'm hoping to avoid having to install the runtime on the machine and just ship a binary if I can
22:14 WUSTL: um pir k is the procedure of one argument representing the pending computation
22:14 PiRSquared17: so a thunk ?
22:15 jonrafkind: umperkay?
22:15 PiRSquared17: ...
22:15 jonrafkind: //
22:15 WUSTL: o_O
22:17 jonrafkind: WUSTL, i think you reversed some arguments
22:18 jonrafkind: n is suppose to be a number right?
22:18 PiRSquared17: (fib/k ((lambda (x) (fib/k (lambda (y) (k (+ x y))) (- n 2)))) (- n 1))
22:18 PiRSquared17: should be
22:18 PiRSquared17: (sib/k num fun)
22:18 PiRSquared17: *fib/k
22:19 WUSTL: so i missed a parantheses
22:19 WUSTL: before the first lambda
22:19 PiRSquared17: no
22:19 WUSTL: er
22:19 PiRSquared17: (fib/k (- n 1) ((lambda (x) (fib/k (lambda (y) (k (+ x y))) (- n 2)))) )
22:20 jonrafkind: you reversed the order of arguments
22:20 PiRSquared17: ^^ Fixed
22:20 jonrafkind: haruki_zaemon, you can try 'raco exe'
22:20 jonrafkind: or 'raco distribute' maybe
22:21 haruki_zaemon: jonrafkind ooh, I'll have a look, thanks
22:21 WUSTL: ah i see
22:24 WUSTL: wait then why is (- n 1) the first argument for fib/k, then it is lambda y in the nested one
22:24 WUSTL: hm i keep getting errors about the number of arguments
22:25 jonrafkind: annotate your function parameters with their type
22:25 jonrafkind: so you dont get confused
22:25 jonrafkind: i mean just put it in a comment
22:26 WUSTL: no i know that i was just asking because PiR pasted a response like that
22:26 WUSTL: which confused me
22:26 WUSTL: and when i try to switch it to be consistent it still isnt working ugh
22:27 jonrafkind: i got your code to work
22:27 PiRSquared17: So did I
22:27 jonrafkind: would you like the answer?
22:28 WUSTL: not just yet :/
22:30 WUSTL: what is wrong with this
22:30 WUSTL: (define (fib/k n k)   (case n     [(0) (k 0)]     [(1) (k 1)]     [else (fib/k (- n 1) ((lambda (x) (fib/k (- n 2) (lambda (y) (k (+ x y)))))))]))
22:31 WUSTL: or i guess yeah what's the working code so i can see where i went wrong -__-
22:31 jonrafkind: you have ((lambda (x) ..)) when you want (lambda (x) ...)
22:31 WUSTL: oh em gee
22:31 WUSTL: it work snow
22:32 jonrafkind: snow!! yay!
22:32 WUSTL: thank you!
22:32 PiRSquared17: snow!!!11!
22:32 WUSTL: ffuuuuuu
22:32 WUSTL: thanks i appreciate you guys helping me learn :)
22:32 WUSTL: first functional programming course rawrrrr
22:38 (part) haruki_zaemon: "Laterz"
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23:49 haruki_zaemon: jonrafkind ok I can successfully create an exe and distribute
23:49 jonrafkind: cool
23:49 haruki_zaemon: jonrafkind but it only seems to create one for the current OS?
23:49 haruki_zaemon: I'm on mac but need to target unix
23:49 jonrafkind: you mean linux?
23:49 haruki_zaemon: sorry
23:49 haruki_zaemon: linux, yes
23:50 haruki_zaemon: (was reading the doco and it says unix everywhere so I had that stuck in my head)
23:50 jonrafkind: well assuming you have an understanding of the difference between OS's what do you really expect?
23:50 jonrafkind: exe bundles the racket executable with the runtime and your bytecode
23:51 haruki_zaemon: sure, that's what I figured
23:51 haruki_zaemon: I just wanted to make sure
23:51 jonrafkind: ok
23:52 haruki_zaemon: thanks for your help
23:53 jonrafkind: sure