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08:31 clklein: stamourv: Putting these forms in a place that's not convenient won't help you find out if they're convenient enough for people to use.
08:32 clklein: For example, I would like a cond/err in racket/base (esp. if it were called `cond' :) ), but I would not use a cond/err in unstable/whatever.
08:34 clklein: I would just use `match' if it's already in scope. If not, I would require racket/match over unstable/whatever because unstable stuff tends to change, disappear, etc.
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10:37 ChibaPet: Is there any notion of when the next dead-tree HTDP will be published?
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11:34 stamourv: clklein: I'm the opposite. When I need something that's generally useful and I can't find it in racket/*, I'd rather use unstable/whatever than implement it myself.
11:35 stamourv: And if it's not there, I usually add it to unstable.
11:35 clklein: stamourv: I'm not sure I follow. I'm not implementing anything myself.
11:35 stamourv: How can we know if something in unstable is worth promoting to racket/foo if no one uses unstable.
11:36 stamourv: Well, in that case you're going without, which is not necessarily better.
11:36 Daemmerung: And how will we have anything in unstable/foo if nobody implements it?  Hint.  Hint.
11:36 stamourv: ChibaPet: I don't think anyone knows. It's not fully written yet.
11:36 clklein: Daemmerung: patches welcome
11:37 stamourv: ChibaPet: In the meantime: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/index.html
11:37 Daemmerung: Hey, I'm happy with cond as-is, remember.  I make old-school look new-school....
11:37 ChibaPet: stamourv, thank you - yeah, I've been looking at that a bit
11:37 stamourv: ChibaPet: So far, I like it much better than the first edition. I'm also really looking forward to it being done.
11:38 clklein: stamourv: I agree it's a decent model in general, but I don't think it works for everything. In particular, I don't think it will work here because using unstable is inconvenient, and convenience is precisely the problem.
11:38 stamourv: Where else should be experiment with features? Directly in racket/base?
11:38 stamourv: If it turns out to be a bad idea, it's much harder to remove.
11:38 clklein: stamourv: I could use it, but I'd be doing it for the +1, not for the convenience.
11:39 Daemmerung: Adding one require is inconvenient?  God help us all.
11:39 stamourv: clklein: What do you mean, for the +1.
11:39 clklein: Daemmerung: At that point, I might as well add the require to racket/match; at least I know that one won't change on me.
11:39 clklein: stamourv: I'd be using cond/err just so that people know someone likes cond/err.
11:39 stamourv: clklein: unstable is surprisingly stable.
11:40 stamourv: Not stable enough for production software you want to forget about and move on, but fine for software that you're actively working on / maintinging.
11:40 clklein: I've seen enough stuff disappear from it that I wouldn't use it for code that's not in the core distro.
11:40 stamourv: We agree.
11:41 clklein: yes, I think so
11:41 stamourv: I just assumed you wanted `cond/err' for redex, or something else in the tree.
11:42 stamourv: (This assumption made me realize that nowadays, I really do most of my hacking inside the tree. I should get out more...)
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13:18 jonrafkind: how come if I pass --disable-libffi to configure then foreign/libffi still gets configured?
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13:42 stamourv: Doesn't --disable-libffi just causes Racket to use the bundled libffi instead of the host one?
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13:43 jonrafkind: oh ffff
13:43 jonrafkind: so therees no way to disable libffi?
13:45 stamourv: --disable-foreign?
13:46 jonrafkind: ah yes there we go
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22:02 ChibaPet: Hey, a question. My wife is going through HTDP 2nd edition, and she copied the rocket ship from the web page, but it shows up as whitespace (shaped about right but with no visible content) in DrRacket. She's on a Mac (Snow Leopard) using the latest release.
22:02 ChibaPet: Can someone speculate as to what might be wrong there, and how we might get a rocket to appear, or some other such image, so she can animate it?
22:04 ChibaPet: She substituted a shape-drawing command, and that worked. We're just hoping to see the rocket. :P
22:06 ChibaPet: Why do you all hate rocket ships? :(
22:07 ChibaPet: Anyway, the positive side is that she seems to be comfortable using the on-screen book since there isn't a printed copy that's sufficiently recent. So I guess we'll let the rocket ship slide for now.
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22:17 ChibaPet: Hm. The book says that copying and pasting images ought to work, but list archives suggest that we should refer to images off disk.
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22:19 ChibaPet: I'll try some variations - on a Debian box, with a nightly build, etc, I guess.
22:21 ChibaPet: Hm, I should ask all this on the mailing list.
22:33 ChibaPet: Aha. I just found where she was reading. Animate doesn't do what she thought.
22:39 ChibaPet: Never mind. Never mind. She'll get what she wants to happen when she reads a little further.
22:40 ChibaPet: I should probably read a couple pages ahead so I can field these questions better myself.
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22:51 RacketCommitBot: [racket] plt pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/plt/racket/compare/e6b4d54...0bcff68
22:51 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] unimportant tabbing fixup - John Clements
22:51 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] updated history. - John Clements
22:51 RacketCommitBot: [racket/master] minor testing changes - John Clements
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22:59 hakkum: hey guys, why is it when i do (* 3 .10) i get 0.3000000000000004 as opposed to 0.3?
23:02 hakkum: it doesn't seem to happen in DrRacket, only when i'm running the repl in emacs
23:03 svk_: .10 will be represented in floating point, which gives you inexact results.. if you want exact rational numbers you could do (* 3 1/10)
23:04 hakkum: right, but I'm trying to represent my results as prices, so having it in decimal is preferable
23:08 hakkum: I guess for now I can use (real->decimal-string n), but it just seems weird to get a rounding error on a simple multiplication like that
23:09 svk_: That's (binary) floating point for you, you really shouldn't be doing inexact arithmetic with money
23:12 svk_: Just convert if you need it for output or something
23:12 hakkum: how else can I convert an amount of coins to value without using multiplication, ie 5 dimes times .10
23:12 hakkum: Sorry, you answered my question
23:17 hakkum: svk_: thanks, I am now doing (* (* 56 1/10) 1.0) which seems to give me the results I want...thanks again
23:20 svk_: No problem.. though instead of multiplying by 1.0 you might want exact->inexact
23:22 svk_: Also, another way to do this is to just count in cents or whatever is the smallest unit of currency you're working with.. that way it's all integers
23:25 hakkum: I'm using this more as test input data for another function that takes a list of coin values.  Now after this discussion I'm using exact numbers as the actual input, but I just wanted to see the randomly generated amounts...thus the desire for all of this
23:28 svk_: Ah, right.. don't mind my nitpicking then
23:31 hakkum: No no... I don't mind at all.  Even though I'm currently using this as a temporary/testing function, it's good to know of alternative options for production code I may create in the future
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