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07:56 yoklov: One of my favorite features of racket is #;
07:57 yoklov: being able to comment out s-expressions?
07:57 yoklov: thats amazing
07:57 yoklov: i wish i had it in more languages
07:57 yoklov: its so useful.
08:39 yoklov: huh, thats odd
08:39 yoklov: timeinng doesnt work on my desktop
08:39 yoklov: not time, benchmark, nothin.
08:39 yoklov: weird.
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11:17 racket: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/jL0rfv
11:17 racket: [racket/master] Add mark call for place->mref - Kevin Tew
11:17 (part) racket
11:18 neilv: rudybot: eval #1234567890(0)
11:18 rudybot: neilv: error: out of memory
11:18 neilv: excellent
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11:19 _p4bl0: neilv: hu?
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11:20 jonrafkind: rudybot: eval #100000(0)
11:20 rudybot: jonrafkind: your sandbox is ready
11:20 rudybot: jonrafkind: ; Value: #(0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
11:20 jonrafkind: rudybot: eval #1000000(0)
11:20 rudybot: jonrafkind: ; Value: #(0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
11:20 jonrafkind: rudybot: eval #10000000(0)
11:20 rudybot: jonrafkind: error: out of memory
11:20 jonrafkind: rudybot: eval #5000000(0)
11:20 rudybot: jonrafkind: error: with-limit: out of memory
11:20 jonrafkind: well thats funny eh
11:21 jonrafkind: rudybot: eval #2500000(0)
11:21 rudybot: jonrafkind: ; Value: #(0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
11:21 jonrafkind: rudybot: eval #3700000(0)
11:21 rudybot: jonrafkind: error: with-limit: out of memory
11:21 jonrafkind: rudybot: eval #3000000(0)
11:21 rudybot: jonrafkind: ; Value: #(0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
11:21 jonrafkind: ok whatever
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12:17 racket: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/jnUiNc
12:17 racket: [racket/master] Make vector-immutable work like vector. Closes PR 11535. - Eric Dobson
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12:23 racket: [racket] plt pushed 4 new commits to master: http://bit.ly/jAOSAL
12:23 racket: [racket/master] close current macro stepper frame on Run, Macro Stepper, etc - Ryan Culpepper
12:23 racket: [racket/master] macro-stepper: don't try to remove term when at end of list - Ryan Culpepper
12:23 racket: [racket/master] macro-stepper: another phase-1-init location - Ryan Culpepper
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12:37 tab1ta: hello
12:38 tab1ta: anyone can help about this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/122967
12:39 tab1ta: i can't understand what is wrong
12:39 tab1ta: i've loaded all the teachpack needed
12:39 tab1ta: and everything
12:42 tab1ta: it says gui: gui-items must be added to window before use (see create-window)
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12:47 _p4bl0: never used the teachpacks and don't know this language, but try moving (echo-message "ciao") after your call to create window which seems to attach a-message and a-text-field to the window
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12:49 _p4bl0: but btw you don't use the argument to echo-message in its body
12:52 tab1ta: yes this was the problem
12:52 tab1ta: let's see, i do have an example which seemslike u say
12:54 _p4bl0: (define (copy-message) (draw-message a-message (text-contents a-text-field))) should be the callback for your "Copy Now" button, and (define (echo-message msg) (draw-message a-message msg)) the definition of echo-message
12:54 _p4bl0: it would make more sense
12:59 tab1ta: no it says that the gui itemn should be added to window before
12:59 tab1ta: using create window
13:00 _p4bl0: what i suggest is not in contradiction with that
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13:03 tab1ta: yes it's not
13:04 tab1ta: it's to cut the definition of echo message and to paste it elsewhere but the copy-message definition should have an argument and, i can't really understand why it doesn't take the text field i defined before..
13:05 tab1ta: which trick isn't working here?
13:05 tab1ta: should i use lambda?
13:05 tab1ta quite confused
13:20 tauntaun: Two questions.
13:21 tauntaun: I didn't notice any mention of objects in the Typed Racket docs.  Does TR work for objects?
13:22 tauntaun: Second question: I also didn't find any discussion of cost in the docs on contracts.  Are contracts expensive, and is there a rule of thumb for thinking about their tradeoffs?
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13:32 tab1ta: _p4bl0, tnks
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13:35 samth: tauntaun: objects are not currently supported, except in an extremly limited and experimental way
13:35 samth: there's someone here at northeastern working on this, though, so the situation will improve
13:36 samth: as for contracts, they can be expensive
13:36 tauntaun: Thanks, samth.
13:36 samth: it's hard to speak generally, but flat contracts are cheaper than non-flat ones, and dependent function contracts are quite expensive
13:36 samth: it's best to benchmark the particular cases you're thinking of
13:37 samth: and if you can think of particular guidance you'd like the guide to provide, that would be helpful
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14:08 racket: [racket] plt pushed 1 new commit to master: http://bit.ly/mfLc0V
14:08 racket: [racket/master] Updating textarea-input re Shogo - Jay McCarthy
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15:29 tauntaun: Is it fair to say that, like modules, Scribble's in-source documentation (provide/doc, etc.) forbids circular dependencies?
15:30 jonrafkind: yes, since they just use modules
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16:48 jonrafkind: samth, are you still looking for presentations for racketcon?
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17:31 samth: jonrafkind: we've got enough
17:31 jonrafkind: ok
18:04 tauntaun: Does Racket have a runtime mode that disables contracts?
18:07 samth: tauntaun: no
18:07 samth: you can write something that does that statically (it's harder dynamically)
18:07 samth: i've done that for typed racket
18:07 samth: see the `contracts-enabled?' definition in collects/typed-scheme/utils/utils.rkt
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18:11 tauntaun: Following up a bit on my earlier question, a grep of the Racket source suggests that contracts are not used very often, and provide/doc is used even less often.  Any reason for this?  Did runtime enforcement of contracts turn out to be more expensive than PLT had expected, maybe?
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18:11 samth: tauntaun: i think contracts are used a lot
18:12 samth: provide/doc is mostly not used because people write separate scribble files
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18:13 samth: for example, i count 98 occurrences of provide/contract in the `web-server' collection
18:14 tauntaun: Yes, the web-server uses it a lot.
18:19 samth: a non-trivial portion of the racket code base is lower-level than contracts, in the sense that it's used in the implementation of contracts
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18:21 tauntaun: I have to go in a minute....but how hard would it be, in principle, to implement a switch (like a command-line option) to disable contract checking?
18:22 jonrafkind: it could just be a parameter I suppose
18:23 samth: tauntaun: it would make contract checking noticeably slower
18:24 samth: also, some code depends on contract checking for its correctness
18:24 samth: such as typed code
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18:24 tauntaun: You mean the added 'if' would speed the code when checking is turned off, but would slow the code when the checking is on, right?
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18:29 samth: tauntaun_away: yes
18:30 samth: which is why the contract-disabling code in typed racket works at expansion time -- no residual code at all
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19:47 gamerman: hey everyone! I am new to the community and have been given the task of trying to get an ARM based microcontroller interfaced with working with Racket and wondered if anyone in here had some ideas, suggestions that might be able to point me in the right direction
19:52 jonrafkind: you can use the ffi I guess
19:53 gamerman: ffi?
19:53 jonrafkind: foreign function interface
19:53 jonrafkind: it lets you talk to C code from racket
19:53 jonrafkind: i assume you have some C code to control the microcontroller?
19:54 gamerman: yeah I do, thats kind of what I was thinking as well
19:54 gamerman: taking the scheme code and compiling it down to c to run natively on the controller
19:54 jonrafkind: oh, well that most likely wont work
19:55 jonrafkind: i mean how much ram do you have on that thing?
19:55 gamerman: it actually runs a fully functional version of ubuntu on the device
19:55 gamerman: not quite sure how much ram of the top of my head
19:56 gamerman: I was looking into http://armpit.sourceforge.net/ but was not sure if this would work all to well or not
19:56 jonrafkind: my definition of 'microcontroller' must be out of date
19:57 gamerman: well you probably are thinking correctly, this is a custom made controller specifically meant for robotics
19:57 jonrafkind: well in theory all you have to do is compile racket for the arm device
19:57 jonrafkind: i think i tried to compile for arm 2 years ago and ran into some compile error
19:57 gamerman: it is actually a hacked together chumby
19:58 jonrafkind: racket isn't currenlty compiled to C, its just compiled to byte code and jit compiled at runtime
19:58 gamerman: that was what i was trying to figure out
19:58 jonrafkind: porting the jit to arm is theoretically possible
19:58 gamerman: currently when i write some code in racket i can go to one of the menus and click create executable but wasnt quite sure what it was doing
19:59 jonrafkind: it just bundles the racket binary, your code, and the library stuff (from collects) into a single file
20:00 gamerman: do you know how i might be able to access the IO ports on the device?
20:00 gamerman: I imagine I could access them just from their addresses
20:00 gamerman: but wasnt familiar enough with scheme on how to do that
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20:01 jonrafkind: I don't know exactly how it works but most likely there is just some address you can send bytes to/read from
20:01 jonrafkind: you can manufacture pointeres to addresses with the ffi
20:02 jonrafkind: does the arm have the equivalnet of x86 io ports?
20:03 gamerman: i believe so
20:03 jonrafkind: im fuzzy on how all this works
20:04 gamerman: same here, this is my first attempt at doing such a thing
20:05 gamerman: https://botballstore.org/content/cbc-v2-robot-controller
20:05 gamerman: this is the device I am porting it over to
20:06 gamerman: this device is used in a robotic competition for middle and high schoolers and currently the students program it using c
20:06 jonrafkind: does it come with example C code?
20:06 jonrafkind: are you a student yourself?
20:06 gamerman: yes there is an entire c library that backs how the students interface with the IO and the robot itself
20:06 gamerman: https://github.com/kipr/cbc/
20:08 gamerman: essentially we are wanting to get racket up and working as an enviroment for the students to use with the robot to try and teach functional languages to children while they are still young
20:10 jonrafkind: so they just use linux devices and call ioctl it seems
20:10 jonrafkind: thats pretty simple
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20:11 gamerman: I use to be a student in the program but have since gone on to college and just graduated with a CS degree.
20:11 gamerman: like I said before it didnt sound like it would be to difficult
20:12 gamerman: but the problem I had is I have never done this before so was looking for advice
20:12 jonrafkind: you should be able to port most of these C functions to racket since it consists of calling ioctl
20:12 gamerman: from what you said it sounds like I will just need to try and compile racket to the device and then create some kind of teachpack that will handle all of the backend interfacing with the IO
20:12 jonrafkind: yea
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20:13 gamerman: do you know how i might be able to make the ioctl calls from racket?
20:15 jonrafkind: you can get ioctl with something like (define ioctl (get-ffi-obj #f 'ioctl (_fun _int _int -> _int)))
20:15 jonrafkind: where #f means get the symbol from the current executable
20:16 gamerman: that makes more sense
20:16 jonrafkind: you could call open() to get a raw file descriptor like C does as well
20:17 gamerman: I tried looking through the documentation of rackets website but wasnt able to find something relevant to help me out on this
20:18 gamerman: do you know of what I should try looking up in the documentation to further my understanding?
20:19 jonrafkind: ffi
20:19 gamerman: I will look into that then further it definitely sounds like it will solve all my problems
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20:20 gamerman: thanks for all the advice and time, any other suggesstions?
20:20 jonrafkind: write lots of tests
20:21 gamerman: lol will do
20:22 gamerman: aight im off, thanks again!
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20:26 ApeShot: Has anyone else observed that setting a racket canvas device context `smoothing` option to `'unsmoothed` doesn't seem to prevent it smoothing bitmaps which are drawn with draw-bitmap?
20:26 ApeShot: If I draw a bitmap, set the smoothing mode to umsmoothed, and then scale, it does smoothing on the resulting image.
20:27 ApeShot: Unless I'm misunderstanding, I don't think this is the correct behavior.
20:27 ApeShot: Latest version of racket, by the way.
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21:06 samth: clklein: are you in boston?
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