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02:40 bogner: On OSX, if I try to start any of the graphical tools from the commandline, I get a strange error, show here: https://gist.github.com/af617f9b3fcc7752f8f4
02:41 bogner: Does anyone know what that means?
02:47 bogner: Hmm, nevermind, seems to be some piece of completely unrelated software that failed at removing somehow
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05:10 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 8f0921a (1 files in 1 dirs): add shortcut to expand R6RS `letrec' of procedures to Racket `letrec' - http://bit.ly/j2Ay9Y
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08:33 PLT_Notify: racket: master Jay McCarthy * d4417fa (1 files in 1 dirs): Adding a few index entries - http://bit.ly/j4bxWp
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09:16 hkBst: what's the difference between serializable structs and prefab-enabled structs?
09:22 ohwow: hello
09:23 ohwow: how are you doing?
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09:33 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * e7d2cb7 (1 files in 1 dirs): doc formatting fixes
09:33 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 909aadd (1 files in 1 dirs): protect against nested snip deletes in `pasteboard%'
09:33 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * c543554 (1 files in 1 dirs): fix GUI builder due to `pasteboard%' change way back ...
09:33 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits d4417fa...c543554 - http://bit.ly/lY1Twi
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09:34 ohwow: http://hivelogic.com/articles/top-10-programming-fonts/
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10:50 PLT_Notify: racket: master Tony Garnock-Jones * c888222 (1 files in 1 dirs): Property accessors are now able to accept 1 or 2 arguments - http://bit.ly/kn8JCv
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12:15 RandalSchwartz wanders in to the chat room for no good reason )
12:15 RandalSchwartz: interviewing matthew flatt on http://live.twit.tv/ in 15 minutes
12:16 jonrafkind: oh yea, almost forgot about that
12:17 jonrafkind: well I could always just sit outside his door anyway
12:17 RandalSchwartz: I had no idea how mature and complete an ecosystem racket had become
12:17 RandalSchwartz: this should be a fun show
12:17 RandalSchwartz: and probably bring another few thousand new members your way :)
12:18 jonrafkind: the current guy has cool hair
12:19 (quit) anRch: Quit: anRch
12:23 RandalSchwartz: cool hair?
12:23 RandalSchwartz: should I mention that? :)
12:23 jonrafkind: to the current guy with spikey hair?
12:23 jonrafkind: oh now its some commercial, i guess the last interview ended
12:24 RandalSchwartz: Oh - the live feed.
12:24 RandalSchwartz: not watching that
12:24 RandalSchwartz: I will *be* that in 5 minutes :)
12:24 RandalSchwartz: spikey hair likely brian brushwood
12:24 jonrafkind: are you going to broadcast this irc channel as well? or is that some other channel
12:24 RandalSchwartz: host of NSFW show
12:24 RandalSchwartz: the irc for the show is irc.twit.tv:#twitlive
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12:25 RandalSchwartz: I probably *won't* be watching this show
12:25 RandalSchwartz: channel
12:25 RandalSchwartz: too many windows :)
12:26 RandalSchwartz wanders off
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12:30 offby1: huh, it was Merlin himself
12:30 offby1: who'd'a thunk
12:31 dyoo: hurrah, he's on
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12:42 offby1: gosh, Flatt sure is a young feller; who knew
12:42 offby1: that video crashed my whole machine :-|
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12:42 jonrafkind: hes almost 40
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12:52 offby1: he's got a painting in his attic ...
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12:58 offby1: RandalSchwartz's voice sounds like Jeff Bridges -- wonder if they both grew up in the same area
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13:08 offby1: geiser~
13:09 offby1: matthew should be watching IRC like a TelePromptR® :-)
13:10 samth: offby1: ?
13:10 jonrafkind: http://live.twit.tv/
13:11 samth: exciting
13:12 (nick) lucian_ -> lucian
13:14 (topic) samth: http://live.twit.tv/ -- Racket -- http://racket-lang.org -- Come to Racket Days: July 23-24 -- logs @ http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs
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13:17 offby1 engages Stone and Parker to write "Racket: The Broadway Musical"
13:18 eli prebuys tickets
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13:45 PLT_Notify: racket: master Robby Findler * 33e6802 (1 files in 1 dirs): make the two-argument version of redex-match use the right name for the procedure it returns - http://bit.ly/ls8nXy
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13:52 RandalSchwartz: A little like Jeff Bridges, when I have a cold
13:54 RandalSchwartz: that was a fun show... should be published later today
13:54 shofetim: RandalSchwartz: you asked about other languages that are implemented ontop of racket besides scribble
13:54 shofetim: http://docs.racket-lang.org/honu/index.html
13:54 shofetim: might interest you
13:54 shofetim: http://docs.racket-lang.org/algol60/index.html
13:54 shofetim: http://docs.racket-lang.org/datalog/index.html
13:54 shofetim: as well...
13:54 RandalSchwartz: thanks!
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13:55 RandalSchwartz: seems like perl6 could target racket's vm
13:55 RandalSchwartz: and maybe vice versa
13:55 shofetim: I've heard of people building Python interpreters on top of it too (as an "academic exercise")
13:55 eli: RandalSchwartz: We'll wait patiently.
13:55 RandalSchwartz: well - there's already a perl6 to javascript
13:55 RandalSchwartz: and perl6 to parrot
13:55 eli: (For the video, not for perl6.)
13:55 RandalSchwartz: and perl6 to dotnet
13:55 dyoo: the show was cool; thank you!
13:56 RandalSchwartz: the audio should be out in a few hours.  the video not likely until tomorrow
13:56 eli: Ah.
13:57 shofetim: Cool : ) going to pass it (podcast) on to my local LUG... doing a presentation for them tomorrow on Racket
13:57 RandalSchwartz: good timing then
13:58 eli: shofetim: Not in israel, by any chance?
13:58 shofetim: no... Montana : ) Languages are my thing... Hebrew, Latin, a little Greek, spanish etc...
13:59 eli: :)  So you know what threw me off...
13:59 shofetim: your the first to know what "shofetim" meant : )
14:00 eli: Heh...  Actually, I should have known that it isn't in Israel --
14:00 eli: if it were, you'd likely drop the "e".
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14:02 eli: shofetim: BTW, why that word?  Is it the bible thing, or the actual word?
14:04 shofetim: eli: most of my hebrew studies focused around biblical stuff, so I first encountered it while doing some comparative translating with the KJV
14:05 shofetim: I'm unaware if the meaning has changed in modern hebrew
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14:06 eli: Not really.  Literally, it means "judges", but since it's also a name of one of the bible books then that meaning is also very known.
14:06 shofetim: Its abit egotistic perhaps but few can understand it anyway... mostly I just like the word.
14:06 eli: :)
14:08 shofetim: Have you heard the "Specialization is for insects" quote/poem (I think by Robert Heinlein)
14:08 shofetim: Its not exactly related... but my professor at the time related the shofetim to that poem
14:09 shofetim: the judges/warriors/kings/movers of things and men.
14:09 shofetim: lots of the heroics of the OT
14:09 eli: My sci-fi readings were all in hebrew, so random quotes usually don't ring bells...
14:09 eli: (Actually all of my readings, except for CS stuff.)
14:09 shofetim: one sec let me find it....
14:11 shofetim: I'http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein search for
14:11 shofetim: I'd past the whole thing but its abit long
14:11 shofetim: that link and then search for Specialization is for insects...
14:13 tauntaun: shofetim: under those criteria, Isaac Newton would not even remotely pass for a human being.  And neither would I :-)
14:16 shofetim: tauntaun: : ) still an awesome quote
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14:36 eli: shofetim: Doesn't sound familiar, I don't think I read it.  (But I'm pretty certain I read one of the lazarus books.)
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15:16 bugQ: (apropos "#lang plai")
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15:27 bugQ: does anyone see why the last test is bad? http://paste.lisp.org/display/122261
15:29 bugQ: and how to make is good without changing the expected value to (candle 9.0) ?
15:29 bugQ: *it
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15:40 bugQ: I can't tell what equivalency function that test uses nor do I know how to override it for a custom type
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15:45 shofetim: are you looking for inexact->exact ? (9.0 -> 9)
15:45 shofetim: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122261#1
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15:56 bugQ: not exactly.
15:56 bugQ: I'm looking for a way to make (candle 9.0) and (candle 9) to be equivalent values
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16:00 bugQ: so that it will pass when tested against either one
16:00 bugQ: I should have included both tests to make that more clear
16:10 bugQ: what I'm asking is essentially if either racket allows overloading of things like eqv? or that they are at least implemented in a modular way
16:11 bugQ: in which case I need to know where to register my own comparison function
16:11 samth: not eqv?, but `equal?' can be overriden
16:11 samth: but I don't think that's exposed in `define-type' in `plai'
16:13 bugQ: ok, I thought as much...
16:16 bugQ: I just come from a (perhaps unhealthy?) background of monkey patching with various script-like languages
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16:17 bugQ: lisp seems to have more meta-power but less volatility than most
16:26 bugQ: (discounting eval :P)
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16:27 shofetim: I've never used the #lang plai, but if you want to change how the testing works, you could write your own... http://paste.lisp.org/display/122264 also maybe checkout rackunit http://docs.racket-lang.org/rackunit/index.html
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16:30 bugQ: yeah, I realize that plai is not representative of ordinary testing tools
16:30 bugQ: it's just a junior-level textbook
16:30 bugQ: I'm "auditing" this class for free, since all materials are online
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16:35 shofetim: What text?/course?
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17:12 RandalSchwartz: looks like it's out! twit.tv/floss167
17:13 jonrafkind: that was fast
17:13 RandalSchwartz: audio now, video later
17:13 RandalSchwartz: yeah
17:13 jonrafkind: when did the show end? i left at like 11:03 (it started at 10:30 here)
17:14 RandalSchwartz: we try to have about 45 minutes for the guest
17:14 RandalSchwartz: then we do 5-10 minutes of close, and 3-5 minutes of open
17:14 RandalSchwartz: goal is around an hour
17:14 jonrafkind: so you expect many more listeners for the end result? i saw ~410 live listeners
17:14 RandalSchwartz: heh.  59:56!
17:14 RandalSchwartz: pretty darn close
17:15 RandalSchwartz: there's about 2k to 5k live viewers
17:15 RandalSchwartz: it goes out through three video systems
17:15 jonrafkind: oh, i was watching on justin.tv
17:15 RandalSchwartz: and about 30k to 50k audio downloads in the first six weeks
17:16 RandalSchwartz: which are the only ones that count for the sponsors. :)
17:16 RandalSchwartz: we *do* get a lot of people downloading the back-catalog though, since the show is timeless
17:16 jonrafkind: i was confused about the whole setup, theres twit tv, floss weekly, and justin.tv. somehow they are all related..
17:16 RandalSchwartz: twit.tv is the network name
17:16 RandalSchwartz: floss weekly is a show on the network :)
17:16 RandalSchwartz: justin is one of the video streaming services
17:16 jonrafkind: ok
17:16 RandalSchwartz: bitgravity is another
17:17 shofetim: RandalSchwartz: Nice (download numbers). Everyone should learn to program in either racket (lisp in general) or smalltalk : )
17:17 RandalSchwartz: if you could tweet or blog about the show to your audience, that would help us both out.
17:17 RandalSchwartz: if you want to wait until the video tomorrow, that might have more impact
17:17 jonrafkind: ill tell all the people on my commute to work
17:18 RandalSchwartz: and hopefully matt will do the same
17:19 shofetim: The Montana LUGs know... & I'll see if I can send something out to MSU (Montana State University) CS students...
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17:56 (nick) elliottcable -> eliottcable
17:57 offby1: I floss weekly
17:57 offby1: or was that TMI
17:59 (nick) eliottcable -> Mikoangelo
18:01 samth: :)
18:01 (nick) Mikoangelo -> _sully
18:01 (nick) _sully -> elliottcable
18:03 offby1: RandalSchwartz: what prompted you to check out Racket recently?
18:04 RandalSchwartz: floss weekly!
18:04 offby1: heh
18:04 offby1: I guess I should be asking the editor over there, if that's what they call 'em.
18:05 jonrafkind: print out all the projects on freshmeat.net and throw a dart at it
18:05 RandalSchwartz: the editor over where?
18:05 offby1: floss weekly.
18:05 offby1: Of which, as you might guess, I'm quite ignorant.
18:05 RandalSchwartz: uh - I'm the producer and host of the show.
18:05 offby1: oh.
18:06 offby1: then lemme back up -- why racket as opposed to some other cool project?
18:06 RandalSchwartz: I crowdsource the upcoming projects list
18:06 shofetim: (Usually someone suggests an open source project, and gets one of its maintainers to contact Randall.... yes?)
18:06 RandalSchwartz: I have people interested in a project have the project leader contact me.
18:06 RandalSchwartz: that's how this got on
18:06 offby1: RandalSchwartz: sort of "by popular demand", then?  _that_ is encouraging.
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18:07 RandalSchwartz: well - there's a lot of suggestions for projects, and I got tired of that.
18:07 RandalSchwartz: so I insist that the projects themselves contact me now
18:07 RandalSchwartz: and that gates it a bit
18:07 RandalSchwartz: xrl.us/flossweeklyguests
18:07 jonrafkind: oh buildbot is on there, nice
18:07 RandalSchwartz: we did buildbot a few weeks ago
18:08 jonrafkind: the floss weekly website is sort of confusing..
18:08 jonrafkind: sensory overload
18:08 RandalSchwartz: I don't control that
18:08 RandalSchwartz: except that I select the guests and hosts. :)
18:09 RandalSchwartz: I also don't do the editing or distribution
18:09 RandalSchwartz: each show burns about 4 hours of my time though
18:10 RandalSchwartz: and we only occasionally have sponsors
18:10 offby1: ooh, buildot vs Jenkins!
18:10 offby1: bout of the century
18:10 offby1: ooh ooh!  Sitaram Chamarty!  I'll watch that.
18:11 jonrafkind: you guys should get carmack on ;)
18:12 offby1: I was gonna suggest Salvatore Sanfilippo, but there he is
18:12 RandalSchwartz: I forget... what open source has he done?
18:12 RandalSchwartz: Is Doom open source?
18:12 jonrafkind: i forget.. but quake3 is
18:12 offby1: yeah
18:13 jonrafkind: doom probably is
18:13 jonrafkind: and quake1 and quake2
18:13 offby1: y'know, I think this is the future of Journalism.  I'm serious.
18:14 RandalSchwartz: podcasting?  it's clearly one aspect of new media
18:14 RandalSchwartz: blogging is another important part though
18:17 offby1: I meant: individual experts (such as yourself) doin' it more or less by yourself, with the help of a relatively small number of people, and plenty of tech.  As opposed to big companies (like newspapers).
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19:06 RandalSchwartz: yeah - that makes sense
19:09 offby1: someone like you might decide to do it full time, and (somehow) charge for what they do.
19:09 offby1: Voilà: journalism
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19:14 samth: offby1: see lwn.net
19:14 offby1: I used to read them!  They had/have a great editor.
19:15 offby1: But I am also the problem: I think I stopped reading once they charged $ :)
19:16 RandalSchwartz: well - so far, twit network has been supported by sponsors
19:17 RandalSchwartz: that seems to be a useful model
19:17 offby1: I didn't even notice any ads
19:17 RandalSchwartz: netflix, near the beginning
19:17 RandalSchwartz: which was at the end of the taping
19:18 offby1: huh
19:18 offby1: I use adblock; maybe that swallowed it
19:18 RandalSchwartz: we tape middle, end, beginning
19:18 RandalSchwartz: your adblock blocked my voice? :)
19:18 RandalSchwartz: I *read* the ad
19:18 RandalSchwartz: it's 2 minutes of time near the beginning of the show
19:18 RandalSchwartz: and a banner just ahead of the show open
19:19 RandalSchwartz: "banner" in this sense is me reading 15 seconds of ad copy
19:19 offby1: musta missed it
19:19 offby1: or else adblock got a lot smarter
19:19 offby1: I was running around cooking etc while listening :)
19:20 RandalSchwartz: heh
19:20 RandalSchwartz: would have been right around 10:40am
19:20 offby1: I'm surprised they're willing to pay $ for 15 seconds of nerd TV -- any sense of how many people watched, and will watch?
19:20 RandalSchwartz: or if you're listening to the audio, about 5 minutes in
19:22 RandalSchwartz: tag - netflix banner - bandwidth banner - my intro - co-host intro - a bit of banter - guest description - then the netflix ad
19:23 offby1: doin' the "Google Listen" thing.
19:23 shofetim: Anyone know of a publicly accessible web server that has racket running in a sandbox and can execute arbitrary code? (or source to quickly setup the same?)
19:24 offby1: now what on Earth gave you that idea :)
19:24 offby1: shofetim: Maybe I should put rudybot's sandbox thingy on the web somehow
19:24 shofetim: FLOSS weekly : ) sounds great for demos....
19:24 shofetim: yeah! : )
19:25 offby1: rudybot: (string-join (map string->list '(yes I am the scheme-evaluating bot that Matthew mentioned)) " ")
19:25 rudybot: *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready
19:25 rudybot: *offby1: error: string->list: expects argument of type <string>; given yes
19:25 shofetim: I guess I should look at rudybot ....
19:25 offby1 rolls eyes
19:25 RandalSchwartz: given yes!
19:25 offby1: rudybot: (string-join (map symbol->string ' (yes I am the scheme-evaluating bot that Matthew mentioned)) " ")
19:25 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: "yes I am the scheme-evaluating bot that Matthew mentioned"
19:26 RandalSchwartz: rudybot: #f
19:26 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: your sandbox is ready
19:26 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: ; Value: #f
19:26 offby1: right now I'm trying to teach the bot to log to Amazon's simpledb instead of the disk.  Surprisingly hard, given that I have to roll my own simpledb client
19:26 RandalSchwartz: I have a sandbox!
19:26 offby1: RandalSchwartz: dude, don't be so negative
19:26 offby1 closes the cat door
19:27 RandalSchwartz: I didn't see a nil... just null
19:27 RandalSchwartz: did the lisp people finally get rid of nil?
19:27 offby1: RandalSchwartz: if you can crash the bot, eli and I will be impressed
19:27 offby1: I don't see nil _or_ null
19:27 RandalSchwartz: I was reading the docs today.  Saw null
19:27 RandalSchwartz: but not nil
19:27 offby1: rudybot: null
19:27 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: ()
19:27 offby1: rudybot: (eq? '() null)
19:27 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: #t
19:27 RandalSchwartz: yeah - like that
19:27 offby1: rudybot: (not '())
19:27 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: #f
19:28 offby1: null is the empty list, as you can see.  But #f is the _only_ false value; everything else is true
19:28 RandalSchwartz: that part I understand too
19:28 shofetim: offby1: I have been working on an S3 api... but have been to busy lately. I general racket AWS collection would be cool. You sharing code for simple DB anywhere?
19:28 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:(while #t)
19:28 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: while in module: 'program
19:29 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:(while (#t))
19:29 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: while in module: 'program
19:29 offby1: shofetim: kinda.  Gimme a second.
19:29 RandalSchwartz: that's weird
19:29 RandalSchwartz: what identifier is it talking about?
19:29 offby1: shofetim: https://github.com/offby1/doodles/tree/master/plt-scheme/web/amazon
19:30 offby1: RandalSchwartz: we just don't have "while".
19:30 shofetim: offby1: thanks!
19:30 offby1: rudybot: (let loop () (loop))
19:30 offby1: probably what you meant
19:30 (join) dyoo
19:30 offby1 drums fingers
19:30 rudybot: *offby1: error: with-limit: out of time
19:30 offby1: any seconds now ...
19:30 offby1: there we go
19:31 offby1: RandalSchwartz: it should have put quotes around the 'while', in the error message.
19:31 offby1: rudybot: (frotz (#t))
19:31 rudybot: *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: frotz in module: 'program
19:32 shofetim: rudybot: ((λ (x) (x x)) (λ (x) (x x)))
19:32 rudybot: shofetim: your sandbox is ready
19:32 rudybot: shofetim: error: with-limit: out of time
19:33 offby1: *yawn* seen it, seen it :)
19:33 shofetim: *shrug* thought there could be a possibility with unicode....
19:34 (quit) sstrickl: Quit: sstrickl
19:34 offby1: λ works fine.
19:39 RandalSchwartz: ahh - that was the confusing part
19:39 RandalSchwartz: I read that as "while in module..."
19:47 offby1: yep
19:47 offby1: I don't think I've ever come across an equivalent of "while" in racket-land.  Probably trivial to write as a macro, but ... I've never felt the need
19:48 (quit) RpR`: Remote host closed the connection
19:48 offby1: rudybot: (define-syntax-rule (while test body ...) (let loop () (when test (begin body ... (loop)))))
19:48 rudybot: *offby1: Done.
19:48 offby1: rudybot: (let ([a 4]) (while (positive? a) (displayln a) (set! a (sub1 a))))
19:48 rudybot: *offby1: ; stdout: "4\n3\n2\n1\n"
19:48 offby1: ta da
19:51 (join) jeapostrophe
19:52 (quit) jeapostrophe: Client Quit
19:52 (quit) gcd: Quit: Leaving
20:07 RandalSchwartz: rudydot:(current-seconds)
20:07 RandalSchwartz: rudydot: (current-seconds)
20:07 RandalSchwartz: it hates me now? :)
20:08 RandalSchwartz: rudydot: (require racket/date) (current-seconds)
20:10 samth: RandalSchwartz: it's rudy*b*ot
20:10 samth: rudybot: eval (current-seconds)
20:10 rudybot: samth: your sandbox is ready
20:10 rudybot: samth: ; Value: 1306368617
20:10 samth: RandalSchwartz: as above
20:11 RandalSchwartz: oh - left out the eval
20:11 RandalSchwartz: doh!
20:11 RandalSchwartz: no wait, why eval?
20:11 samth: RandalSchwartz: it's a disambiguiator
20:12 RandalSchwartz: why do some things need eval and not others?
20:12 (quit) dyoo: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
20:12 samth: you just misspelled the bots name
20:12 RandalSchwartz: oh heh!
20:12 samth: rudybot: (current-seconds)
20:12 rudybot: samth: ; Value: 1306368734
20:12 samth: rudybot: (hi
20:12 rudybot: samth: Hi kanru, in fact emacs-chess is the name of the debian package
20:12 RandalSchwartz: rudybot: (current-seconds)
20:12 samth: rudybot: eval (hi
20:12 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: your sandbox is ready
20:12 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: ; Value: 1306368752
20:12 rudybot: samth: error: eval:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `('
20:12 RandalSchwartz: rudybot: (seconds->date (current-seconds))
20:12 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: ; Value: #(struct:date 44 12 0 26 5 2011 4 145 #f 0)
20:12 samth: RandalSchwartz: that's what eval is for
20:12 RandalSchwartz: rudybot: (date->string (seconds->date (current-seconds)))
20:12 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: date->string in module: 'program
20:13 RandalSchwartz: rudybot: (require racket/date) (date->string (seconds->date (current-seconds)))
20:13 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: master John Clements * dcb5e89 (2 files in 2 dirs): added raise-type-error to date->string, also test case - http://bit.ly/lAQwKn
20:13 RandalSchwartz: rudybot: eval (require racket/date) (date->string (seconds->date (current-seconds)))
20:13 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: ; Value: "Thursday, May 26th, 2011"
20:13 RandalSchwartz: there we go
20:14 samth: rudybot: (require racket/date)
20:14 rudybot: samth: Done.
20:14 samth: rudybot: (date->string (seconds->date (current-seconds)))
20:14 rudybot: samth: ; Value: "Thursday, May 26th, 2011"
20:14 samth: RandalSchwartz: rudybot is smart like that
20:14 offby1: RandalSchwartz: whether or not you need "eval" is super-ambiguous and ... I'll just admit it ... buggy.
20:15 offby1: what's worse (as you may have inferred) if he doesn't realize you wanted to eval something, he'll just pull up a semi-random quote that contains one of your words.  I find this amusing; your mileage may vary.
20:15 RandalSchwartz: heh
20:16 samth: and that's why i always use eval
20:16 offby1: in theory you can use other languages too:
20:16 offby1: rudybot: init r5rs
20:16 rudybot: *offby1: your r5rs sandbox is ready
20:16 RandalSchwartz: offby1 - are you the same offby1 I know from some other irc channel? maybe postgresql?
20:16 offby1: RandalSchwartz: yep.
20:16 RandalSchwartz: ok
20:17 RandalSchwartz: was wondering if this was a nick collision. :)
20:17 offby1: there's an offbyone; naturally we have vowed to shoot each other on sight
20:17 offby1: #git more likely.
20:17 offby1: rudybot: (do something r5rs-like)
20:17 rudybot: *offby1: error: eval:1:0: do: bad syntax in: (do something r5rs-like)
20:18 offby1: I can't think of an example that will prove that my sandbox is now in a different language than yours.
20:18 offby1: but it is.
20:18 samth: use set-car
20:18 offby1: I think that fails even in R5RS, doesn't it?
20:18 offby1: let's see
20:18 offby1: rudybot: (let ([a (cons 1 2)]) (set-car! a 99) a)
20:18 rudybot: *offby1: error: eval:1:6: read: illegal use of open square bracket
20:18 offby1: huh
20:19 offby1: rudybot: (let ((a (cons 1 2)0) (set-car! a 99) a)
20:19 rudybot: *offby1: eval set-car!
20:19 samth: you have provide it
20:19 samth: *proved
20:19 offby1: rudybot: eval (let ((a (cons 1 2)0) (set-car! a 99) a))
20:19 rudybot: *offby1: error: eval:1:6: let: bad syntax (not an identifier and expression for a binding) at: (a (cons 1 2) 0) in: (let ((a (cons 1 2) 0) (set-car! a 99) a) (r5rs:body))
20:19 offby1: w0t have I done
20:19 offby1: rudybot: eval (let ((a (cons 1 2)) (set-car! a 99) a))
20:19 rudybot: *offby1: error: eval:1:21: let: bad syntax (not an identifier and expression for a binding) at: (set-car! a 99) in: (let ((a (cons 1 2)) (set-car! a 99) a) (r5rs:body))
20:19 offby1: *sigh*
20:19 offby1: samth: I'll take your word for it
20:19 offby1: rudybot: init racket
20:19 rudybot: *offby1: your sandbox is ready
20:19 offby1: whew
20:20 offby1: rudybot: init r5rs
20:20 rudybot: *offby1: your r5rs sandbox is ready
20:20 offby1: (let ((a (cons 1 2)) )(set-car! a 99) a)
20:20 offby1: rudybot: (let ((a (cons 1 2)) )(set-car! a 99) a)
20:20 rudybot: *offby1: ; Value: {99 . 2}
20:20 offby1: hard to get parens right when everything is all one one line.
20:21 samth: i need paren-matching in my irc client
20:21 offby1: try an Emacs IRC client.
20:21 offby1: I use erc
20:21 offby1: yes, there are more than one
20:22 RandalSchwartz: I use irc.el
20:22 RandalSchwartz: rocker's client
20:22 offby1: the { and } indicate that it's a "mutable cons", which just means "the same kind of cons every other lisp has" (except for clojure)
20:22 RandalSchwartz: because some of my code is in it
20:22 RandalSchwartz: "Mutable cons" is the name of my Blues Brothers cover band!
20:23 offby1: just outta Joliet.
20:23 RandalSchwartz: hmm.  how long should my "welcome to PLaneT" email take?
20:23 RandalSchwartz: I wonder if it got eaten as spam
20:23 offby1: no idear
20:24 offby1: did you upload something?
20:24 offby1: oh, you created an account, I guess
20:24 offby1: I never log in
20:24 RandalSchwartz: yes
20:24 RandalSchwartz: I created an account... waiting for the confirmation email
20:25 RandalSchwartz: ahh - there it is
20:26 RandalSchwartz: oooh - does the "add.ss" mean planet is running arc or something?
20:27 offby1: I doubt Planet is running arc
20:28 offby1: where do you see "add.ss" ?
20:28 offby1: ah, gotcha
20:28 RandalSchwartz: on the confirmation url
20:28 offby1: no, ".ss" is the older conventional extension for mzscheme
20:28 offby1: nowadays it's .rkt but they both mean the same thing
20:28 offby1: if arc also uses .ss, it's because they are running inside mzscheme
20:28 (quit) masm: Quit: Leaving.
20:28 offby1: I should really make arc a proper #!lang
20:29 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:eval (current-output-port)
20:29 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: ; Value: #<output-port:string>
20:29 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:eval (current-error-port)
20:29 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: ; Value: #<output-port:string>
20:30 offby1: correct but not very useful
20:32 RandalSchwartz: yeah
20:32 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:eval (current-error-port) eq? (current-output-port)
20:32 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: ; Value: #<output-port:string>
20:32 RandalSchwartz: oops
20:32 RandalSchwartz: bad lisp brain.  bad.
20:32 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:eval (eq? (current-error-port) (current-output-port))
20:32 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: ; Value: #f
20:32 RandalSchwartz: there we go
20:33 samth: offby1: you can't -- arc doesn't have the phase distinction
20:33 samth: or at least, it's really hard
20:33 samth: carl eastlund might have ideas, b/c he's worked w/ acl2 in racket
20:34 offby1: samth: bummer
20:34 offby1: at least that explains why it's not been done
20:34 samth: i tried to do it once
20:34 samth: otherwise it's trivial
20:35 offby1: samth: you should write a sentence or two describing why it's hard, and stick it in some README or FAQ in the arc source.
20:35 offby1: So that future generations will either avoid temptation, or will rise to the challenge.
20:35 samth: good idea
20:38 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:eval (regex-match-positions #rx"." "hello")
20:38 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: regex-match-positions in module: 'program
20:38 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:eval (regexp-match-positions #rx"." "hello")
20:38 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: ; Value: ((0 . 1))
20:39 RandalSchwartz: heh #px... perl regex. :)
20:40 RandalSchwartz: ... The location between the ? and the : of a non-capturing cluster is called a cloister.
20:41 RandalSchwartz: I like these invented terms.  we should reimport them back to perl docs. :)
20:41 offby1: you mean "cloister" is a _racket_ term?  It sure sounds Larry-icious
20:41 RandalSchwartz: it's not Larry, no
20:42 RandalSchwartz: first I've seen () called cluster and (?i:...) called cloister
20:42 samth: that sounds like a typo to me
20:43 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:eval (/ 1 0)
20:43 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: error: /: division by zero
20:44 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:eval (raise hell)
20:44 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: hell in module: 'program
20:44 offby1: close though
20:44 offby1: rudybot: eval (error 'hell)
20:44 rudybot: *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: error in module: 'program
20:44 offby1: er?
20:44 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:eval (raise 'hell)
20:44 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: error: hell
20:44 offby1: rudybot: eval (error 'hell)
20:44 rudybot: *offby1: error: hell
20:44 offby1: musta still been in R5Rs mode
20:45 offby1: rudybot: eval (raise 'hell)
20:45 rudybot: *offby1: error: hell
20:45 offby1: there's a subtle difference but I forget what it is.
20:45 offby1: rudybot: doc raise
20:45 rudybot: *offby1: error: help: no documentation found for: raise provided by: "/usr/local/racket-textual/collects/racket/main.rkt"
20:45 offby1: *sigh*
20:45 offby1: rudybot: doc error
20:45 rudybot: *offby1: error: help: no documentation found for: error provided by: "/usr/local/racket-textual/collects/racket/main.rkt"
20:45 offby1: *gasp*
20:45 offby1: oh yeah, I installed "minimal" racket.
20:45 offby1 fumes
20:45 offby1: well, that's _supposed_ to point to the online docs.
20:46 offby1: next person to try "doc holliday" gets my foot in their ***
20:47 (quit) samth: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
20:47 (quit) dnolen: Read error: Connection reset by peer
20:47 (join) dnolen_
20:52 (join) sstrickl
20:52 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:eval (in-range 1 4 1/5)
20:52 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: ; Value: #<stream>
20:53 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:eval (for/list ([i (in-range 1 4 1/5)]) i)
20:53 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: ; Value: (1 6/5 7/5 8/5 9/5 2 11/5 12/5 13/5 14/5 3 16/5 17/5 18/5 19/5)
20:53 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:eval (for/list ([i (in-range 1 4 1/5)]) (/ 5 i))
20:53 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: ; Value: (5 25/6 25/7 25/8 25/9 5/2 25/11 25/12 25/13 25/14 5/3 25/16 25/17 25/18 25/19)
20:53 RandalSchwartz: nice
20:54 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:eval (for*/list ([i (in-range 1 4 1/5)]) (/ 5 i))
20:54 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: ; Value: (5 25/6 25/7 25/8 25/9 5/2 25/11 25/12 25/13 25/14 5/3 25/16 25/17 25/18 25/19)
20:54 (quit) dnolen_: Quit: dnolen_
20:55 RandalSchwartz: rudybot:eval (for*/list ([num (in-range 1 10)][den (in-range 1 10)]) (/ num den))
20:55 rudybot: RandalSchwartz: ; Value: (1 1/2 1/3 1/4 1/5 1/6 1/7 1/8 1/9 2 1 2/3 1/2 2/5 1/3 2/7 1/4 2/9 3 3/2 1 3/4 3/5 1/2 3/7 3/8 1/3 4 2 4/3 1 4/5 2/3 4/7 1/2 4/9 5 5/2 5/3 5/4 1 5/6 5/7 5/8 5/9 6 3 2 3/2 6/5 1 6/7 3/4 2/3 7 7/2 7/3 7/4 7/5 7/6 1 7/8 7/9 8 4 8/3 2 8/5 4/3 8/7 1 8/9 9 9/2 3 9/4 9/5 3/2 9/7 9/8 1)
20:58 offby1: eek
20:58 offby1: bot abuse
20:59 offby1: gosh, you just jumped into list comprehensions
20:59 RandalSchwartz: I'm just reading through the manual quickly :)
21:07 (quit) ckrailo: Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.
21:20 (quit) leo2007: Ping timeout: 248 seconds
21:48 (join) dnolen
21:50 (quit) bugQ: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
21:57 (quit) dnolen: Quit: dnolen
22:09 eli: rudybot: (define a 123)
22:09 rudybot: eli: your sandbox is ready
22:09 rudybot: eli: Done.
22:09 (nick) elliottcable -> ec|irssi
22:09 eli: rudybot: (define a 987)
22:09 rudybot: eli: Done.
22:09 eli: rudybot: a
22:09 rudybot: eli: ; Value: 987
22:10 eli: offby1: Those error messages that talk about a module are probably because I convinced you to use 'racket as a language rather than '(begin racket) which would be a bit more like a repl thing.
22:10 eli: rudybot: (define (b) a)
22:10 rudybot: eli: Done.
22:10 eli: rudybot: (b)
22:10 rudybot: eli: ; Value: 987
22:10 eli: rudybot: (define a 888)
22:10 rudybot: eli: Done.
22:10 eli: rudybot: (b)
22:10 rudybot: eli: ; Value: 888
22:10 eli: At least that works fine...
22:11 eli: RandalSchwartz: Re the sandbox aspect there's a whole bunch of issues that are controlled
22:11 eli: rudybot: (file->string "/etc/passwd")
22:11 rudybot: eli: error: file-size: `read' access denied for /etc/passwd
22:12 eli: rudybot: (delete-file "/etc/passwd")
22:12 rudybot: eli: error: delete-file: `delete' access denied for /etc/passwd
22:12 eli: rudybot: (tcp-listen 8765)
22:12 rudybot: eli: error: tcp-listen: network access denied: (#f 8765 server)
22:12 eli: rudybot: (require 'net/url)
22:12 rudybot: eli: error: require: unknown module: 'net/url
22:12 eli: rudybot: (require net/url)
22:12 rudybot: eli: Done.
22:13 eli: rudybot: (get-pure-port (string->url "http://google.com/"))
22:13 rudybot: eli: error: tcp-connect: network access denied: ("google.com" 80 client)
22:13 eli: rudybot: (make-bytes 10000000)
22:13 rudybot: eli: error: with-limit: out of memory
22:13 eli: Stuff like that.
22:19 (join) realitygrill
22:23 (quit) tauntaun: Quit: Ex-Chat
22:31 (nick) ec|irssi -> ec|detached
22:31 shofetim: rudybot: (require ffi/unsafe)
22:31 rudybot: shofetim: your sandbox is ready
22:31 rudybot: shofetim: Done.
22:32 shofetim: rudybot: (define-runtime-path libcrypto-so
22:32 shofetim: (case (system-type)
22:32 shofetim: [(windows) '(so "libeay32")]
22:32 shofetim: [else '(so "libcrypto")]))
22:32 rudybot: shofetim: (define-runtime-path my-file "my-file.txt")
22:32 shofetim: 
22:33 shofetim: (define libcrypto
22:33 shofetim: (with-handlers
22:33 shofetim: ([exn:fail? (lambda (exn)
22:33 shofetim: (log-warning (format "warning: couldn't load Crypto library: ~a"
22:33 shofetim: (if (exn? exn)
22:33 shofetim: (exn-message exn)
22:33 shofetim: exn)))
22:33 shofetim: #f)])
22:34 shofetim: (ffi-lib libcrypto-so '("" "0.9.8b" "0.9.8" "0.9.7"))))
22:34 shofetim: 
22:34 shofetim: ack
22:34 shofetim: rubybot: (define libcrypto
22:34 shofetim: (with-handlers
22:34 shofetim: ([exn:fail? (lambda (exn)
22:34 shofetim: (log-warning (format "warning: couldn't load Crypto library: ~a"
22:34 shofetim: (if (exn? exn)
22:34 shofetim: (exn-message exn)
22:34 shofetim: exn)))
22:34 shofetim: #f)])
22:34 shofetim: (ffi-lib libcrypto-so '("" "0.9.8b" "0.9.8" "0.9.7"))))
22:34 shofetim: 
22:34 shofetim: rudybot: (define libcrypto
22:34 rudybot: shofetim: (define libcrypto
22:34 shofetim: (with-handlers
22:34 shofetim: ([exn:fail? (lambda (exn)
22:34 shofetim: (log-warning (format "warning: couldn't load Crypto library: ~a"
22:34 shofetim: (if (exn? exn)
22:34 shofetim: (exn-message exn)
22:34 shofetim: exn)))
22:34 shofetim: #f)])
22:35 shofetim: (ffi-lib libcrypto-so '("" "0.9.8b" "0.9.8" "0.9.7"))))
22:35 shofetim: 
22:35 shofetim: rudybot: (display "yes?")
22:35 rudybot: shofetim: ; stdout: "yes?"
22:36 shofetim: offby1: rudybot seems very slow this evening...
22:37 shofetim: offby1: not sure how... but could rudybot be made to do crashy things with ffi/unsafe?
22:40 (part) shofetim: "ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"
22:40 (join) shofetim
22:43 eli: shofetim: It must receive a full expression on the line, you can't split it.
22:43 eli: rudybot: (require ffi/unsafe)
22:43 rudybot: eli: Done.
22:44 eli: rudybot: (get-ffi-obj "read" #f (_fun _int -> _int))
22:44 rudybot: eli: error: eval:1:1: compile: access from an uncertified context to protected variable from module: "/usr/local/racket-textual/collects/ffi/unsafe.rkt" in: get-ffi-obj
22:44 eli: And that's the protection against it.
22:45 shofetim: eli: nice... thanks : )
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22:55 alcuadrado: how can I enable readline support in racket?
22:56 alcuadrado: (require readline) in .racketrc =)
22:59 eli: alcuadrado: http://docs.racket-lang.org/readline/index.html#(def._((lib._readline/main..rkt)._install-readline!))
23:00 alcuadrado: nice, thanks eli
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