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01:27 eli: jonrafkind: No guesses, are you standing behind the change(s) as bugfix-level changes?
01:27 jonrafkind: ok yes
01:28 eli: ok.
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07:40 bremner_: anyone know about src/racket/src/ports.c ?  I'm getting build failures on debian/kbsd because MZ_FLUSH_* are undefined. This in turn suggests MZ_FDS is undefined.
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12:03 shofetim: I am not seeing any libraries in PLaneT for encryption.... So I am guessing the normal practice is use the FFI to call a C lib to handle AES/Symmetric encryption?
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12:32 shofetim: Anyone have a guess what the performance difference would be between calling an external C library (OpenSSL probably) to perform AES encryption versus implementing the AES algorithm in racket?
12:33 jonrafkind: if you could implement it with all the fast fx routines (unchecked math) then maybe you could get less than a 2x factor in racket
12:33 shofetim: Would the community consider AES implemented in racket to be usefull, or something that should just be done via FFI?
12:34 jonrafkind: im sure someone would enjoy it
12:34 shofetim: jonrafkind: thanks. Not sure what I'll do yet....
12:35 shofetim: there is a CL (common lisp) implementation of AES that I could take some hints from
12:36 shofetim: doesn't look like it would take overly long to implement....
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13:51 mithos28: If I create a structure at phase 1 in a module (A), and I have two modules (B) and (C) which require module (A). Will they have different (generative) versions of the structure?
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13:54 bremner_: does the dev@racket-lang.org list send a confirmation?
13:57 bremner_: oops, sure it does.
14:01 jonrafkind: mithos28, if you require into the same phase I think you will have the same struct
14:10 mithos28: jonrafkind: ok, that was what I was seeing. I think what I was thinking of is that the values in phase 1 during expansion of B and C will be of different struct types, but if C requires B, B will have new values during the expansion of C.
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16:06 mithos28: Are there any restrictions on what can be wrapped in a syntax object?
16:09 carleastlund: mithos28, In theory no, but the syntax-wrapping only recurs through known datatypes (see documentation on datum->syntax and syntax->datum) so most non-standard wrappings are shallow, and if you try to compile a program with non-standard values in syntax to a .zo file it will not have a way of marshalling them.
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16:11 carleastlund: Oh, I do know that cyclic values are disallowed.  No cycles in syntax.
16:14 mithos28: carleastlund: I am trying to find someway of passing back information from the expander to my running program, but I cannot think of a better way than returning it as the expansion result. (I am calling expand with dynamically generated 'code').
16:17 carleastlund: Okay.  Are you implementing a language / interpreter?  Why are you manually expand-[and possibly eval-]ing this code?  The purpose may help me figure out the best channel of information from expander to elsewhere.  For instance, if this is a DrRacket tool, DrRacket may have helpful bindings; if not they are useless.
16:18 mithos28: I am trying to attach documentation to exported identifiers of a module, and then provide a tool that displays the documentation of the identifiers.
16:19 mithos28: The mechanism that I am using is making the identifiers syntax-transformers that are structs with a prop:procedure
16:20 carleastlund: Ah.  Yeah, that's quite a trick.  I have a similar problem with Dracula -- I have to associate proof obligations with compiled code, and extract them later.
16:20 mithos28: the procedure simply delegate to an identifier with the actual value binding, but the structure part holds the documentation
16:20 carleastlund: Are you going to always have access to the code of the documented module?  Or might you have to do this with pre-compiled modules?
16:21 mithos28: I hope that it will work with pre-compiled modules
16:22 carleastlund: That makes life tougher.  Um... I know I've had to do this, and soon I will have to do it again, but I'll have to take a moment to remind myself how.
16:22 mithos28: the problem is that I am having trouble getting access to the syntax-transformer structs at phase 0 of some module
16:23 mithos28: why, the precompiled modules should still have the transformers around for compiling another module
16:24 carleastlund: Phases are complicated.  They're all there, but they're not supposed to talk directly to each other.
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16:25 carleastlund: But really you don't want to necessarily communicate phase 1 values to phase 0.  What you want is for phase 1 to arrange for phase 0 values to exist, or to arrange for phaseless values to exist.
16:26 jonrafkind: phaseless values? whats that?
16:26 mithos28: strings, numbers
16:26 jonrafkind: er, how do you get them? values are bound to variables and variables exist in phases
16:27 carleastlund: You have that backwards.  Variables are bound to values, but not always the other way around.  But that's not what I meant, one sec and I'll explain.
16:27 mithos28: you could caculate a value in phase 1, and then put it in a syntax object and give that to expander, thus giving it to phase 0 (as I understand it)
16:28 jonrafkind: right, but thats not phaseless
16:28 carleastlund: Module names essentially belong to all phases.  If you call the module resolver with a given path, you'll get back the same name in all phases (assuming the resolver works the same in both phases).
16:28 carleastlund: There are a very few places like that where certain values are dynamically accessible, without compilation to quote, at multiple phases.
16:29 carleastlund: There is some metadata that can be associated with modules which can also be accessed by anyone with the module's path.  But I don't believe expansion can currently affect this.
16:30 mithos28: So in my problem I can make a module whose sole purpose at expansion time is to produce the result of the documentation.
16:30 jonrafkind: oh, sounds like storing files in a filesystem or something
16:30 mithos28: and does nothing after expansion
16:30 carleastlund: mithos28, I was not proposing a concrete implementation for your situation yet.  I don't know how to use this stuff to do what you need.
16:30 mithos28: ok
16:31 carleastlund: jonrafkind, Sort of.  The module name registry [for a given namespace] is shared across phases, so yes, it's like a filesystem in the DrRacket VM.
16:33 carleastlund: mithos28, now that I look back, I only ever solved this issue in the simpler cases, either cross-module phase 1 -> phase 1 communication, or communication with DrRacket when I could grab the expanded source code and read syntax properties from it.
16:35 mithos28: I think my solution will be to have a mechanism that can produce results in phase 1, and have phase 0 execute an (eval '(make-results)) or something similar.
16:36 carleastlund: Let me know how it turns out.
16:36 mithos28: ok, thanks for the help
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17:05 carleastlund: mithos28, I've posted to the dev list asking for a solution (new or existing).
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17:11 mithos28: carleastlund: so my technique seems to be working
17:12 mithos28: I am mostly communicating between phase 1 and doing most of the work in phase 1 by use of eval
17:13 carleastlund: True.  Does your method allow you to get the documentation for a module without running the phase 0 code of that module?
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17:17 mithos28: It should i just need the syntax transformers, so I think visiting is fine and there is no need for instatiation.
17:22 mithos28: Yep. I changed the few important bits, and it gets the documentation without running the module.
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19:41 rramsden: having issues using (start x y) DrRacket is complaining that the proc <start> is undefined. Do I need to require a library to use canvas?
19:52 carleastlund: rramsden, You need to add the draw teachpack.
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19:58 rramsden: carleastlund: thanks, now I can learn some scheme!
19:58 carleastlund: :)
19:58 carleastlund: Don't forget to learn some Racket while you're at it.
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22:16 mithos28: If I have a macro which acts like a variable (just replaces itself in the syntax object with a variable), will contracting it with provide/contract give me the standard behavior?
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