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08:47 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * ad922d5 (2 files in 2 dirs): document Unix lib dependencies for `racket/draw' and `racket/gui/base'
08:47 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 5844b56 (1 files in 1 dirs): doc typos
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10:42 samth: tewk, ping
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12:11 tewk: samth: pong
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12:47 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 9acab4a (1 files in 1 dirs): win32: 'swiss font family maps to "Arial" instead of "Helvetica"
12:47 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * b0a3025 (1 files in 1 dirs): disable hack that turns off kerning for bitmap DCs ...
12:47 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits 5844b56...b0a3025 - http://bit.ly/ien3Zx
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13:20 emilia: i have a question
13:21 emilia: does anyone know how to put if clauses into different lists?
13:21 emilia: :D
13:22 jonrafkind: what do you mean
13:22 jonrafkind: (list '(if 1 2 3) '(if 4 5 6)) ?
13:22 emilia: i have to do detect recursion type
13:22 emilia: and to detect tail-recursion
13:23 emilia: i have to see if the tail call is at the beginning of and if/cond
13:23 emilia: so i need a list with each condition of the if/cond
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13:25 jonrafkind: i dunno, it sounds like you should write an s-expression traversal function and accumulate results along the way
13:26 emilia: s-expression?
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13:28 jonrafkind: are you taking a compilers course?
13:28 emilia: no
13:29 emilia: i am taking a functional programming course
13:29 emilia: where i work in scheme
13:29 emilia: and now i have a little homework
13:29 emilia: :P
13:29 jonrafkind: is scheme new to you?
13:32 emilia: kind of
13:36 jonrafkind: you should do some basic exercises in scheme to get used to the language
13:36 jonrafkind: try sicp
13:40 emilia: i am used to it
13:40 emilia: i want a simple ideea for what i have to implement
13:41 emilia: that's what i am looking for
13:41 emilia: :P
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14:19 samth: tewk, ping again
14:22 tewk: here
14:22 tewk: samth: pong
14:22 samth: tewk, the latest release of gcc takes the number of parallel threads to run from the -j argument to make
14:23 samth: so you might be able to figure out how they do that to cause 'make install
14:23 samth: ' to do the same
14:23 tewk: Cool, where did you find that out?
14:23 samth: by reading their release notes :)
14:26 samth: also, tewk, woohoo for making places on by default
14:27 jonrafkind: #'(foo@bar ...) what do people think of using this as shorthand for (with-syntax ([(foo* ...) (map bar (syntax->list #'(foo ...)))])
14:27 jonrafkind: #'(foo* ...))
14:28 samth: (a) @ has scribble meaning
14:28 samth: (b) it's horrible
14:29 jonrafkind: ok well maybe not @, but i hate writing the `with-syntax' form every time
14:29 samth: i'd rather have syntax-lists as implictly sequences
14:29 samth: also:
14:29 samth: rudybot, doc syntax-map
14:29 rudybot: samth: your racket sandbox is ready
14:29 rudybot: samth: not found in any library's documentation: syntax-map
14:29 samth: rudybot, doc map-syntax
14:29 rudybot: samth: not found in any library's documentation: map-syntax
14:29 DT``: map-syntax?
14:30 samth: rudybot, (banner)
14:30 rudybot: samth: ; Value: "Welcome to Racket v5.1.\n"
14:30 jonrafkind: oh yea, i actually wrote my own syntax-map, but that doesnt really go far enough
14:30 carleastlund: It's in unstable/syntax, I dunno what rudybot's problem is.
14:30 tewk: samth: its not on by default yet, I want people to try using, --enable-places.  If no one screems, I'll make it the default
14:31 samth: well, i'm building with it now
14:31 tewk: thnx,
14:32 jonrafkind: maybe, foo->bar
14:32 samth: tewk, go here, and search for jobserver: http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.6/changes.html
14:33 samth: tewk, a couple more suggestions
14:33 samth: (1) you could probably build less of racket in the first phase
14:33 samth: ie, not racket/gui, racket/draw, etc
14:34 samth: (2) you could prioritize some parts of the collects (raco, compiler, etc)
14:34 stamourv: jonrafkind: that's even worse, since the arrow has a traditional meaning
14:34 jonrafkind: foo::bar
14:35 jonrafkind: at least that has a nice similarity to syntax classes
14:35 samth: i'm unconvinced that we need new syntax for this
14:35 jonrafkind: makes things more succinct
14:36 samth: lots of things would make some programs more succinct
14:36 jonrafkind: good!
14:36 samth: but we can't choose them all
14:36 samth: why not make syntax-map a macro?
14:36 jonrafkind: i did
14:36 jonrafkind: you still need the with-syntax form
14:37 DT``: make a with-syntax/map.
14:37 samth: ie: (syntax-map* f v) = (syntax-map f (syntax->list #'(v ...)))
14:37 samth: where do you need the with-syntax?
14:37 jonrafkind: what will you do the result of (syntax-map* f v)?
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14:38 samth: it's an expression
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14:38 stamourv: samth: doesn't syntax-map already do that?
14:38 jonrafkind: #'(... (foo* ...) ...) cmon, play along
14:38 samth: use it in a with-syntax, or #, or a function argument, or ...
14:38 jonrafkind: oh i consider #, horrible
14:38 samth: your expansion to with-syntax is also an expression, with identical semantics
14:39 tewk: with-syntax/map++
14:39 samth: the with-syntax you gave has no point
14:39 jonrafkind: yes, pretend its part of a larger template, that I just wrote
14:39 samth: i do not understand what you are talking about
14:40 jonrafkind: (with-syntax ([(foo* ...) (syntax-map ... #'(foo ...))]) #'(blah ... foo* ...)))
14:40 jonrafkind: now the entire expression is not equivalent to a single (syntax-map ...) call
14:41 samth: right
14:41 samth: so, #'(blah ... #,@(syntax-map f foo))
14:41 jonrafkind: right, <jonrafkind> oh i consider #, horrible
14:42 samth: so you want to add new syntax for a special case of #,
14:42 jonrafkind: yes
14:42 samth: and why is this special case so important?
14:42 jonrafkind: its common
14:42 jonrafkind: to me at least
14:42 samth: have you measured this?
14:43 jonrafkind: in my own code, but its partly why i asked here
14:43 samth: also, what's so bad about #,
14:43 samth: do you also dislike ,
14:43 samth: ?
14:43 jonrafkind: i dont like mixing code and data
14:43 jonrafkind: somehow my days of php programming turned me off from it
14:43 samth: but that's exactly what you are asking for
14:43 DT``: jonrafkind, but code IS data.
14:44 jonrafkind: its true I'm doing the same but in a sort of sneaky way, id rather the template be a DSL and interpret it in a specific manner
14:44 tonyg: DT``: not at all! data is code!!
14:44 jonrafkind: rather than inject racket code in there
14:44 samth: you are injecting racket code!!!
14:44 jonrafkind: similar to syntax-classes
14:44 DT``: tonyg, (letrec ((code data) (data code)) (eq? code data))
14:44 DT``: prove me wrong!
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14:44 samth: it's just you want to have only identifiers
14:45 tonyg: DT``: well played, sir
14:45 samth: so that you can have reader syntax for it
14:45 jonrafkind: i wasn't thinking of hacking the reader
14:45 jonrafkind: just make a new `syntax' form
14:45 samth: yes, you are
14:45 jonrafkind: no
14:46 samth: a@b and a::b are both identifiers
14:46 jonrafkind: yes
14:46 samth: so you are suggesting changing the meaning of a@b to refer to the identifiers a and b
14:46 (nick) em -> emma
14:46 jonrafkind: within the new syntax form, yes
14:46 samth: it's true that you can implement this without a reader macro
14:46 jonrafkind: much like ... only means something in the syntax form
14:47 samth: but why would this be a good idea
14:47 samth: what would this do:
14:47 samth: (with-syntax* ([(x ...) '(1)] [(x@values ...) '(2)]) #'(x@values ...))
14:48 samth: ?
14:48 jonrafkind: obviously you wouldnt do that
14:48 samth: what do you mean?
14:48 samth: what is the semantics of that program
14:48 jonrafkind: the second x would shadow the first one, so x would get bound to #'(2)
14:49 samth: no, that is not what would happen\
14:49 jonrafkind: oh right, it would be #'(1)
14:49 samth: there are no binding forms in the body of the with-syntax
14:50 samth: what syntax object would be the result: #'(1) or #'(2)
14:50 jonrafkind: the result would be #'(1)
14:50 samth: why?
14:50 samth: because it would destructure the identifier always?
14:50 jonrafkind: because #'(x ...) is bound to #'(1), and x@values would do (syntax-map x values)
14:50 samth: ok,  so imagine that (x ...) is bound much further out
14:50 samth: would this be confusing?
14:51 samth: note that this is a backwards-incompatible change to existing racket programs
14:51 jonrafkind: the point is to use an identifier that no one would normally use for bindings, so hopefully no one will use x@values
14:51 jonrafkind: or `syntax' could check to see if x@values is bound, isn't that what syntax-parse does?
14:52 samth: maybe, i hear it's author is nearby
14:52 DT``: jonrafkind, I'm actually using foo@bar.
14:53 jonrafkind: well my last suggestion was ::
14:54 DT``: it would break something else, who knows.
14:54 DT``: you can escape ...
14:55 jonrafkind: ok so (:: foo::bar) would escape it
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23:55 bogdanmarin: hello everyone
23:57 bogdanmarin: i have a question if any of you know
23:57 bogdanmarin: let's say i have an initial value (define initial 1)
23:58 offby1: M. Night Shyamalan has an initial value of "M"
23:59 bogdanmarin: and a gui with a text area for the value and a next button giving me some function (value)