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00:42 Nanakhiel: tauntaun, it's a form of reflexion I guess.
00:42 Nanakhiel: Or a capacity thereto
00:43 tauntaun: thanks
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01:12 (nick) Nanakhiel -> Xwife
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01:42 alcuadrado: is there a way to execute the current editting code from lisp?
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07:18 lithpr: For someone begining with racket, how important is it to be versed in the Contracts system?
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07:22 DT-sama: lithpr, not too much, learn to use just r5rs scheme first and then start exploring racket's libraries.
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07:49 Xwife: DT-sama,
07:49 Xwife: dark templar?
07:49 DT-sama: no.
07:49 Xwife: =(
07:49 Xwife: What does it stand for then?
07:50 DT-sama: I don't even remember anymore, really.
07:50 (nick) DT-sama -> DT``
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10:24 Senjai: DT'm you here?
10:25 DT``: Senjai, yes.
10:26 Senjai: How goes?? What time is it where you are? Youralways on at this time lol
10:27 DT``: Fine. here it's 16:27, so of course I'm on.
10:27 Senjai: I'm using my iPhone .. (I don't know if the emotewent through.. This client is kinda barebone
10:29 Senjai: Gonna be on for a while?? I'm just heading to Uni now.. Gonna go online there and do some coding..
10:29 DT``: sure.
10:29 Senjai: Cool I'll be back in a bit. :)
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11:05 Xwife: DT``, he only wants you for your vast knowledge.
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11:06 DT``: lol
11:06 DT``: me? vast knowledge? he's wasting his time.
11:08 Xwife: DT``, not?
11:08 Xwife: you don't have it?
11:08 Xwife: I want it
11:08 Xwife: where can I find it
11:08 Xwife: DT``, join me on a quaest.
11:08 DT``: which quæst?
11:08 Xwife: We will search the ends of the universe to the ancient Kal'darin library of knowledge.
11:09 Xwife: æsc
11:09 Xwife: œðel
11:09 DT``: isn't SICP enough?
11:09 Xwife: Warum writest þu þy?
11:09 DT``: with all those λαμβδασ and magic.
11:09 Xwife: You miss a final sigma.
11:10 DT``: σ?
11:10 Xwife: Also, isn't that λαμβδαι in Greek?
11:10 Xwife: DT``, no, that is the medial form
11:10 DT``: I don't study Greek, I don't know.
11:10 Xwife: You want ς at the end of a word.
11:10 Xwife: Ahh
11:10 Xwife: Well, the miniscule sigma at the end of a word was written ς, at other places it was σ.
11:11 DT``: oh.
11:11 Xwife: This is actually a thing that also happened in the hebrew script and in the mediæval English script.
11:11 DT``: something like ß, I guess.
11:12 Xwife: DT``, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Milton_paradise.jpg
11:12 Xwife: No
11:12 DT``: wasn't it two separate letters, before?
11:12 Xwife: the German letter ß arises from a ligature of ſs
11:12 Xwife: Where ſ is the medial form, and s the final form.
11:12 Xwife: inceſtuous love.
11:13 Xwife: Vpon a moſt beautiful inceſtuous loue.
11:13 Xwife: Vpon þe moſt beautiful inceſtuous loue.
11:13 Xwife: Looks so poetic.
11:13 Xwife: There is this dude on wiktionary
11:13 Xwife: who actually uses the ſ.
11:13 Xwife: Hardcore, ahahah
11:14 Xwife: That guy is so pædantic.
11:14 DT``: he's a wikipædantic.
11:14 Xwife: DT``, but þine is not vaſt knouuledge?
11:15 DT``: þ?
11:16 Xwife: DT``, yeah
11:17 Xwife: þe mediæval vvay to vvrite 'th'.
11:17 DT``: θat makes sense.
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11:19 Senjai: Hey DT``  :)
11:19 DT``: hi, Senjai.
11:20 Xwife: DT``, ð was actually never used in the later period.
11:20 Xwife: Earlier on, þ and ð were pretty much interchangeable.
11:20 Xwife: But later on, only þ was used.
11:20 Senjai: Xwife: charming nick
11:20 Senjai: lol
11:20 Xwife: Whch was finally replaced by 'th'
11:20 Xwife: Senjai, it's for the #xml channel.
11:20 (nick) Xwife -> aerschvergrijp
11:21 Senjai: lol inside joke I gather?
11:21 aerschvergrijp: Everythng there starts with an X eh.
11:21 aerschvergrijp: XQuery, XPath, XSLT, XX
11:22 DT``: XCoolFreeRingtones.
11:25 Senjai: lol Xwife sounds like what that dude calls his gun in... From paris with love.. I think thats it
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11:53 Senjai: DT``: Can you check out my sort-string function?
11:54 Senjai: it seems off to me
11:54 DT``: let me see.
11:54 Senjai: http://codepad.org/uaUIKvLA
11:54 Senjai: It works
11:54 Senjai: but i don't know, I think something is redundant
11:54 Senjai: > (sort-strings (list "c" "a" "a" "a" "a" "d" "b" "c")) `("a" "a" "a" "a" "b" "c" "c" "d")
11:56 DT``: if you wanted to do it mutually recursive, it's ok.
11:57 Senjai: How can you do it without mutual recursion/.
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12:04 DT``: Senjai, I don't know, sorting algorithms are not my forte.
12:06 Senjai: DT``: I hate them :/ lol
12:06 Senjai: DT``: Im working through this: https://sites.google.com/site/ubccpsc1102010w2/syllabus/psets/problem-set-5
12:06 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/5wxapqz
12:06 Senjai: It's past due, so your not helping me cheat or anything
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12:23 Senjai: DT``: can you help with this? http://codepad.org/89FYwpk7 Im getting an error: cdr: expects argument of type <pair>; given 'pol
12:23 DT``: wait a sec.
12:25 Senjai: I think i see it with (num-poly) it's supposed to operate on a list, I dont think im coding it for it
12:26 Senjai: Because poly is a list of posn
12:26 Senjai: No.. that can't be right
12:34 Senjai: DT``: Ok i got past that error, somehow.. but now running (sort-lop LOP2) gives me: `(() ())
12:39 DT``: Senjai, it should be the same as strings.
12:39 Senjai: DT``: I know, I don't know what's wrong
12:41 DT``: btw LOP2 is a (list (list (cons Int Int) ...) (list (cons Int Int) ...))
12:41 DT``: sort-poly wants a (list (cons Int Int) ...)
12:41 Senjai: Fixed it
12:41 Senjai: the problem was (define (insert-poly pol lop)   (cond [(empty? lop) (list pol)]
12:42 Senjai: on the empty? condition, I had it return (list lop) (which is empty)
12:42 Senjai: instead of just the value
12:44 DT``: Senjai, change line 16 to (define LOP2 (append P2 P1))
12:44 Senjai: Is that better?
12:45 DT``: compare:
12:45 Senjai: Wouldn't that be worse? because that is going to combine two poly's. Then the ListOfPoly won't be ble to distinguish between the individual elements no?
12:45 DT``: > LOP2
12:45 DT``: '(#<posn> #<posn> #<posn> #<posn> #<posn> #<posn> #<posn>)
12:45 DT``: (with append)
12:45 DT``: > LOP2
12:45 DT``: '((#<posn> #<posn> #<posn> #<posn>) (#<posn> #<posn> #<posn>))
12:45 Senjai: noo :) LOP2 '(Poly Poly Poly Poly)
12:45 DT``: (with list)
12:45 Senjai: where Poly is (posn posn posn posn)
12:46 DT``: oh.
12:46 Senjai: I need it to be a list of polygons :P
12:46 DT``: but P1 is (posn posn posn)
12:46 Senjai: Thats one polygon
12:46 Senjai: LOP is a list of individual polygons
12:46 Senjai: LOP2 is (list Poly ListOfPoly) Poly is (list (make-posn Number Number) Poly)
12:47 Senjai: e.g. I should be able to design a function to render each polygon in a list if I wanted to, with (append) I think it would just form one big huge polygon no?
12:50 DT``: yeah.
12:50 DT``: mh.
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12:54 PLT_Notify: racket: master Jay McCarthy * 6b907d6 (2 files in 2 dirs): Fixing problem from Alok Thapa - http://bit.ly/goe9BK
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12:54 aerschvergrijp: Senjai, how's your recursion going?
12:54 Senjai: We were just dealing with it lol
12:55 Senjai: painfully
12:55 aerschvergrijp: Senjai, define the factorial function recursively.
12:55 aerschvergrijp: you can do it.
12:55 Senjai: Trying to design a function that consumes a word, and displays all possible permutations of it
12:57 aerschvergrijp: Senjai, you mean every order the letters can occur in?
12:57 aerschvergrijp: Like, every anagram?
12:58 Senjai: yea
12:59 Senjai: 4.5.1 Rearranging Words, at http://bit.ly/hpDX9h
12:59 Senjai: Use find to get it aerschvergrijp
12:59 Senjai: get to it*
13:00 Senjai: Im haveing issues :/
13:03 aerschvergrijp: Senjai, want me to template the layout for you?
13:03 aerschvergrijp: Give you a pointer?
13:03 Senjai: For the insert function?
13:04 Senjai: That would be amazing.
13:04 aerschvergrijp: for the word permutations
13:04 aerschvergrijp: Okay
13:04 aerschvergrijp: There are three facts you can use:
13:04 aerschvergrijp: 1: the empty word ""  has no permutations whatsoever
13:04 aerschvergrijp: 2: a word of one character has one permutation, itself.
13:05 (nick) DT`` -> DT
13:05 (nick) DT -> DT``
13:05 Senjai: Okay: both of those can be covered with an additional cond right? (define (insert-everywhere/in-all-words s w)   (cond [(empty? w) (list s)]
13:06 aerschvergrijp: 3: the list of permutations of for instance a word "abc" is identical to all permutations of "bc" with a in front of it, all permutations of "ac" with b in front of it and all permutations of "ab" with c in front of it.
13:06 Senjai: that first clause solves both of those cases right? the insert function isn't even called if the very first element is empty (from the arrangements function) and this condition takes care if the second element of the word is empty
13:07 Senjai: I understand that, but I have no idea how to put that into racket
13:07 Senjai: (I could do this problem instantly (using loops) in C++, recursion is just so difficult)
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13:13 aerschvergrijp: Senjai, well, you have to mathematically ask you what a permutation is.
13:13 aerschvergrijp: define a permutation mathematically
13:13 Senjai: aerschvergrijp: Am I getting close? http://codepad.org/mwbcmgty
13:14 Senjai: A unique arrangements of letters
13:14 Senjai: Differing from a combitnation
13:14 aerschvergrijp: and you will see that the racket code is actually structurally the same.
13:14 aerschvergrijp: That's not really mathematical.
13:14 Senjai: I think its x!/(number of common letters!)/(number of common letters!)
13:14 Senjai: I forgot the exact formula
13:15 Senjai: or is it just n!?
13:15 Senjai: but that would produce duplicates..
13:16 Senjai: I know that if a word has 4 letters it has 4 * 3 * 2 * 1 permulations
13:16 bremner: you're counting things, but not saying what they are.
13:16 Senjai is completely lost
13:17 Senjai: I don't think I need to know the number of permutations an object has to have
13:18 Senjai: In the original exercise, I assume the recursion returns a list of "permuted" words, and all I have to do with the insert function is place the letter at the beginning of ALL words, at the end of ALL words, and inbetween every letter in ALL words.
13:18 Senjai: right
13:19 aerschvergrijp: Senjai: http://codepad.org/6L2U3Mt1
13:21 Senjai: aerschvergrijp: Is this a proper prototype? http://codepad.org/P7MMK9po
13:21 aerschvergrijp: Senjai, no.
13:21 aerschvergrijp: (list empty) makes a list containing the empty list.
13:22 aerschvergrijp: And this is not what you want.
13:22 aerschvergrijp: You basically have two cases
13:22 Senjai: wow I feel like an idiot
13:22 aerschvergrijp: The list of permutations of the empty word is the empty list.
13:22 aerschvergrijp: It has no permutations
13:23 Senjai: yea
13:23 Senjai: your right
13:25 Senjai: aerschvergrijp: This is the answer key: http://codepad.org/RrBiqk6g But i dont want to use it
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13:28 shofetim: Hey all. I am working on writting a scheme package / library and want to document it well.
13:28 shofetim: I see scribble
13:29 shofetim: but I like to maintain documentation as close as posible to the code it refers to...
13:29 jonrafkind: you can write docs inline with the code if you want
13:29 shofetim: like doc strings in (PHP/Python/elisp/common lisp
13:29 shofetim: etc
13:29 shofetim: thats about what I would like to do
13:29 shofetim: is that an extension to scribble?
13:29 shofetim: (never used scribble)
13:30 shofetim: but scribble didn't look like what I had in mind. Looks like a PDF/HTML document generator thing. more like an easy form of latex
13:30 jonrafkind: what output would you like?
13:31 Senjai: shofetim: Go for chm :) my personal favorite.
13:31 Senjai: Favorite to read that is
13:31 shofetim: chm ?
13:31 shofetim: would like documentation appropriate for Planet
13:31 Senjai: like, Compiled Help Something
13:31 shofetim: and clean code
13:32 Senjai: There are generators out there, that work with any language.
13:32 Senjai: Ones that produce .chm files are neat, it's compiled html. But doesn't run in a browser
13:33 shofetim: ("doesn't run in a browser" != good) yes?
13:33 shofetim: If I understand correctly most people that contribute planet packages write the library/package
13:33 shofetim: and then write a seperate scribble documentation?
13:35 Senjai: chm files are opened by whatever opens chm files on your system
13:35 Senjai: what os you running?
13:35 shofetim: debian
13:36 Senjai: I don't have my debian box running, so I don't know the name of the package
13:36 shofetim: (linux, haven't endured windowsin ages. ) I think there is a GTK reader
13:36 Senjai: On windows, its Microsoft Compiled Help Viewer
13:36 shofetim: but doesn't run in a browser (when it could) sounds bad to me.
13:36 Senjai: CHM is nice because it doesnt have all the html files cluttered about and images, and the user doesnt need to worry about links etc
13:36 Senjai: its a single file
13:37 Senjai: that browses using html links, etc./
13:37 (quit) mheld: Quit: mheld
13:37 Senjai: All the advantages of html, without the shitload of files yknow?
13:37 Senjai: and chm viewers are usually faster than browsers. As they dont access the internet
13:38 Senjai: I mean in loading and overhead, no http headers needed to worry about etc.
13:39 Senjai: I have to head to ENGL 112, ttyl guys later
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13:44 shofetim: think I'll have a look at scribble, or use emacs org-mode
13:44 shofetim: org-mode is good at createing HTML/PDF/LaTex and other formats, and supports having blocks of code and exporting them from the doc.
13:44 shofetim: or maybe write own documentation function to extract and prettify comments in the code...
13:44 shofetim: shalom
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15:51 lithpr: hi.  I was wondering how important it to be well versed one has to be in the Contracts system to use Racket?
15:52 DT``: mh... deja vu.
15:52 DT``: <DT-sama> lithpr, not too much, learn to use just r5rs scheme first and then start exploring racket's libraries.
15:53 lithpr: thank you.
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16:20 lithpr: i didn't know anyone answered me before, sorry.  Somehow i missed it.
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16:54 jeapostrophe: blake_johnson: practice what you preach :)
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18:20 Senjai: Hey all
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19:56 traisen: Is text racket .... racket.exe or raco.exe?
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19:57 blake_johnson: racket.exe
20:00 jonrafkind: notepad.exe
20:01 aerschvergrijp: best text editor ever.
20:02 traisen: racket.exe -f eight.rkt   does give any output nor errors ... just welcome message
20:02 traisen: doesnt
20:02 aerschvergrijp: Isn't that combining two different operating systems.
20:04 jonrafkind: i dont think you want to use -f anymore
20:04 jonrafkind: try just 'racket.exe eight.rkt' or possibly 'racket.exe -t eight.rkt'
20:05 aerschvergrijp: You can use -xyz on windows?
20:05 aerschvergrijp: Or give stuff arguments at all?
20:05 jonrafkind: I think so, / is just a convention isnt it
20:05 jonrafkind: im quite sure you can pass arguments to programs on the command line in windows
20:06 aerschvergrijp: I had no idea.
20:06 aerschvergrijp: So like
20:06 aerschvergrijp: in the good old days
20:06 aerschvergrijp: when you did dir /p
20:06 aerschvergrijp: Then dir was actually a program?
20:06 traisen: -t works.... in windows... what your program wants for input
20:07 traisen: you can do ls and pwd in a cmd window too, for those of us who forget... but my aim will be something under linux
20:08 jonrafkind: are you asking if dir was a prorgam or a shell builtin? i dont know but that is orthogonal to whether you can pass arguments on the command line
20:08 traisen: Thanks, but how do I know what options to use now?
20:08 jonrafkind: ls definately doesnt work in windows (unless you install unix-utils)
20:08 jonrafkind: traisen, what do you want to do exactly?
20:10 traisen: Just reread help... sorry should have tried -t....
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20:10 jonrafkind: you don't need -t usually
20:11 jonrafkind: you only really need it if you are passing a bunch of other flags to racket
20:11 traisen: "exactly what"  how detailed do you want to know? (low level answer) I want use racket to call some c functions,...
20:12 traisen: but on a device which doesn't have enough space for the normal full racket.
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20:12 traisen: Although racket.exe doesn't look that much smaller.
20:14 traisen: (It was recommended I use the text interface since it is smaller)
20:16 traisen: when is raco used?
20:16 blake_johnson: raco is just a collection of utilities for doing different things
20:16 jonrafkind: you can build an executable with it, as well as some other stuff
20:16 traisen: other stuff?
20:17 jonrafkind: run it and it will tell you
20:17 traisen: ok thanks
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20:27 common_tragedian: hello
20:28 common_tragedian: does anybody have any suggestions for searching nested lists?
20:33 aerschvergrijp: common_tragedian, what if the thing you want to search for is a list?
20:33 common_tragedian: what do you mean?
20:34 aerschvergrijp: common_tragedian, well, I let's say you want to search for q in ((a b c d) (e f g h) (x q y z))
20:34 aerschvergrijp: And it then gives back '(3 1)
20:34 aerschvergrijp: ' or something.
20:34 aerschvergrijp: But what if you want to search for (x q y z) ?
20:35 aerschvergrijp: As in, is the level of nesting fixed or not
20:35 common_tragedian: (car (cdr (cdr listname)))
20:35 common_tragedian: oh, no, it's not.
20:35 common_tragedian: actually, the problem I'm having isn't pulling the desired item out
20:36 common_tragedian: I'm using nested lists to represent trees
20:36 common_tragedian: so each sublist represents a fork in the tree
20:36 common_tragedian: and at the end there are values
20:36 common_tragedian: and I'm trying to perform a minimax search on those values
20:36 aerschvergrijp: ahh
20:37 common_tragedian: what I have so far is a function with three arguments
20:37 common_tragedian: the first is the list, the second is the current record holder, and the third is whether you're minimizing or maximizing at a given step
20:38 common_tragedian: so it goes through, and if an item is a number, it checks it against the current record, and if it's a list, it enters it and switches from min to max or vice versa
20:42 (quit) tauntaun: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
20:42 aerschvergrijp: wait wait
20:42 aerschvergrijp: from the start again
20:43 aerschvergrijp: How are you pulling it out?
20:43 aerschvergrijp: Do you want an index where it is located
20:43 aerschvergrijp: Or just the thing for which you search?
20:44 traisen: Is there anyway to see if raco is installed/ setup correctly?
20:44 common_tragedian: the value
20:44 traisen: raco make eight.rkt doesn't seem to create anything (like a bytecode file)
20:44 aerschvergrijp: common_tragedian, and you search with a predicate?
20:45 common_tragedian: what do you mean? I use some predicates in my code...
20:46 blake_johnson: traisen: it will put the bytecode file in a compiled/ subdirectory
20:46 blake_johnson: with a .zo extension
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20:48 aerschvergrijp: common_tragedian, well, just template your search function for me
20:48 aerschvergrijp: as in (search tree ...)
20:48 aerschvergrijp: What comes after it.
20:50 common_tragedian: I have a cond statement
20:50 common_tragedian: hang on
20:51 aerschvergrijp: Nonono
20:51 common_tragedian: hm?
20:51 aerschvergrijp: I mean, just template how you call the function
20:51 aerschvergrijp: With what arguments
20:51 aerschvergrijp: like, do you want to call it (search tree x) if you search for x?
20:51 common_tragedian: oh!
20:51 common_tragedian: okay
20:52 common_tragedian: it doesn't search for a specific value
20:52 common_tragedian: it goes through the list and checks whether each value is higher or lower than the current stored value
20:55 common_tragedian: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5227473/minimax-operations-on-nested-lists-in-scheme-racket-lisp
20:55 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/6jsm7ld
20:56 common_tragedian: the asterisk at the end of the function name is to separate it from the function minimax, which will automatically call minimax* with just the list as an argument
20:57 traisen: @blake_johnson: Thanks for the hint .. understand output and doc better
20:58 blake_johnson: np
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21:21 joe_shmo: hey everyone
21:21 joe_shmo: is there some sort of function
21:21 joe_shmo: that works like member
21:21 joe_shmo: but just returns true of false?
21:22 joe_shmo: and not the tail end of a list or anything like that?
21:24 common_tragedian: (define member? (lambda (m list) (if (false? (member m list)) #f #t)))
21:25 joe_shmo: yeah was just wondering
21:25 joe_shmo: I can do that too
21:25 joe_shmo: ok, and also this might be hopeful thinking
21:26 joe_shmo: but what about a function that compares two lists
21:26 joe_shmo: and returns all elements contained in both lists?
21:29 blake_johnson: check out set-union, might be close to what you want
21:31 common_tragedian: wait, union or intersection?
21:32 (quit) common_tragedian: Remote host closed the connection
21:33 blake_johnson: oh yeah, I read that wrong, probably intersection
21:33 joe_shmo: yeah
21:33 joe_shmo: intersection
21:33 joe_shmo: so (set-intersection)?
21:34 blake_johnson: yeah
21:34 joe_shmo: k, lets try this
21:35 joe_shmo: oh but this is for lists
21:36 blake_johnson: you can turn lists into sets
21:36 joe_shmo: hmm do I want to fool around with at...?
21:36 joe_shmo: how do you turn a list into a set?
21:36 blake_johnson: (apply set a-list)
21:37 joe_shmo: hmm ok thank you
21:37 joe_shmo: I will try that
21:39 joe_shmo: and then can I turn a set into a list?
21:39 blake_johnson: yeah
21:39 joe_shmo: (apply list a-set)?
21:40 blake_johnson: no, apply only works on lists
21:40 joe_shmo: so to go from a set to a list...
21:40 joe_shmo: ?
21:40 blake_johnson: probably the easiest would be (set-map a-set (lambda (x) x))
21:40 joe_shmo: lol I think I will just create an intersect function for lists
21:41 joe_shmo: this apply and changing to and from business
21:41 joe_shmo: seems inefficient
21:41 joe_shmo: what the running time like on apply?
21:48 blake_johnson: sorry, it should be O(n)
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23:23 ckrailo: anybody want to help me figure out where i'm stuck on an assignment? we have to use scheme and i'm having a hell of a time wrapping my head around it. (i'm a ruby/perl guy usually.)
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23:26 ckrailo: i'm writing a transpose method/function/whatever and it cant use the map stuff i've seen on the internets... it has to be a recursive lambda function. *sighs*
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23:28 ckrailo: so far i have this: http://pastebin.com/Sww2356c
23:29 ckrailo: which is a start... but i dont know what to do to finish the transpose [which should look like this:  ((1 4 7) (2 5 8) (3 6 9) (4 7 0)) ]
23:35 blake_johnson: are you using the design recipe?
23:38 ckrailo: no, trying to do it all manually since it's for class. getting some help on #scheme atm.
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