00:15 em: The pointa bout a patent is that you are granted a monopoly  in exchange for revealing your technique.
00:15 em: ^ I sometimes get the feeling that societies gatekeepers have forgotten original purposes like this.
00:16 em: It now seems like the point about patents, like almost everything else is to ensure that those who have everything always will.
00:18 Hydrant: yes, I agree
00:21 Lajla: Remember when intellectual property was still to protect artists instead of large corporations?
00:21 Lajla: Well, I don't, because I wasn't born back then.
00:25 (quit) dnolen: Quit: dnolen
00:33 (join) jonrafkind
01:00 (quit) evhan: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
01:41 (quit) eli: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
01:46 (quit) jonrafkind: Ping timeout: 246 seconds
03:35 (quit) drhodes: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
03:55 (join) drhodes
03:58 (join) lucian_
04:08 (nick) lucian_ -> lucian
04:16 (quit) misterm: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
04:28 (quit) lucian: Remote host closed the connection
04:32 (join) hoskeri
04:41 (quit) hoskeri: Quit: Page closed
04:47 (join) _danb_
05:26 (join) SinDoc
05:33 (join) tfb
06:12 (join) Agari
06:19 Senjai: Hey all
06:25 Senjai: Anyone here?
06:26 SinDoc: Senjai: Sure
06:27 Senjai: Hi :)
06:27 Senjai: Does anyone use Racket for any commercial uses?
06:27 Senjai: It's being used in my Comp Sci course
06:34 tfb: Senjai: I use it for things I get paid for, though no one other than me knows that I do
06:35 Senjai: lol
06:35 Senjai: We're using How to design programs.
06:35 Senjai: It seems highly inefficient
06:35 Senjai: tfb, I know very little C++, but racket seems, to be inflexible
06:36 SinDoc: Senjai: How do you measure efficiency and flexibility?
06:37 Senjai: SinDoc, as a primer, I am VERY ignorant as to racket's capabilities, please keep that noted. It just seems like it does a lot behind the curtains, no sound support, no memory management.
06:37 Senjai: The most basic program is distributed with a lot of overhead, with dll's and such
06:39 SinDoc: Racket does memory management --i.e. garbage collection-- and C++ doesn't
06:39 (join) jesusito
06:39 SinDoc: What do you mean by 'sound support'?
06:40 Agari: Senjai, racket and mostly all lisp dialects are usually high-level languages, things like automatic memory management are there as a convenience for you.
06:42 (join) MayDaniel
06:42 Senjai: Agari, racket is a lisp language? Sorry, but doesn't emacs come with a list interpreter?
06:43 Senjai: Agari, but C++ & C, C#, php, all allow you do dive into the memory bits and pieces, even add assembly into your programs in extreme cases. Does racket allow for that?
06:43 Senjai: about the emacs question, I ask because I just got emacs, and is wondering what lisp is
06:44 Agari: Senjai, emacs comes with elisp, another lisp dialect that is used to customize the editor behaviour.
06:44 Senjai: Is it similar to Racket's lisp?
06:45 Agari: It's very different.
06:46 Senjai: urgh, lol
06:46 Senjai: So what are some examples of commercial projects racket has tackled in the past?
06:46 Agari: On bits, pieces, memory... Racket does have facilities for systems programming (http://pre.plt-scheme.org/docs/html/more/) and more importantly you can use C from Racket and manual memory allocation (http://docs.racket-lang.org/foreign/index.html).
06:48 Senjai: interesting, I'll definitely check it out.
06:51 Agari: In my experience, unless you are creating bindings for a C library, that stuff isn't needed at all.
06:52 Senjai: I have to learn more about Racket, That's for sure
06:52 Senjai: Thanks for your help! :)
07:12 (quit) Agari: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
07:12 (quit) _danb_: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
07:16 (join) masm
07:25 (join) jesusito`
07:27 (quit) jesusito: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
07:32 cpach: Senjai: http://ll4.csail.mit.edu/slides/telescope.pdf was recently mentioned by someone as an example of using racket (formerly known as plt scheme) in a demanding environment
07:33 (join) mceier
07:37 (nick) jesusito` -> jesusito
07:38 (join) Agari
07:47 (join) mye
07:50 (quit) mceier: Quit: leaving
08:28 (join) dnolen
08:47 (join) tauntaun
09:07 (join) evhan
09:11 (quit) dnolen: Quit: dnolen
09:40 (join) PLT_Notify
09:40 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthias Felleisen * 43da90a (2 files in 2 dirs): changed write-file to return the name of the file, period - http://bit.ly/dIgpuv
09:40 (part) PLT_Notify
09:48 (quit) MayDaniel: Read error: Connection reset by peer
09:49 (quit) Senjai: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
10:12 (quit) tauntaun: Quit: Ex-Chat
10:18 (nick) samth_away -> samth
10:18 samth: tfb, where are you using racket commercially?
10:33 (join) carleastlund
10:49 (join) mithos28
10:54 tfb: samth: I'm not in the sense of "writing deployed applications", but I am in the sense of "writing tools I use to get my job done", and I can't say but financial organisation
11:16 (join) mceier
11:30 samth: tfb, i'm impressed that you can't even tell us where you work :)
11:31 (quit) mithos28: Quit: mithos28
11:32 (join) samth_
11:34 (join) eli
11:34 tfb: samth: just paranoia - I want to be able to be rude about them without worrying they might do some search, find it and sack me
11:35 (quit) askhader: Quit: leaving
11:36 (join) askhader
11:36 (topic) -: Racket -- http://racket-lang.org/ (logs at http://racket-lang.org/irc-logs/ )
11:36 (names) -: gabot askhader eli samth_ mceier carleastlund evhan mye Agari jesusito masm tfb SinDoc drhodes realitygrill Hydrant stamourv kisom_dev rapacity saint_cypher abbe cpach offby1 mario-goulart Demosthenes winxordie lnostdal noddy tewk @ChanServ shachaf jeapostrophe bremner cky Fill rudybot zakwilson em martinhex Lajla mattmight Tasser fmu Gwyth clklein _p4bl0 danking samth hyko
11:47 Lajla: I respect that
11:47 Lajla: you can never be too paranoid.
11:47 Lajla: Stay one step ahead of your enemies, and two steps ahead of your friends.
11:56 tfb: I prefer to stay one step behind my enemies: easier to stab them in the back then...
11:58 Lajla: I praefer to stab men in the front, so that I can see in the reflexion of their eyes if there isn't  a man behind me trying to stab me in the back.
12:00 tfb laughs
12:00 (quit) samth_: Quit: Ex-Chat
12:00 Lajla: What Would Elim Garak Do.
12:06 (quit) realitygrill: Quit: realitygrill
12:09 (join) tauntaun
12:10 (join) PLT_Notify
12:10 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 6041833 (9 files in 3 dirs): fsemaphore cleanup ... - http://bit.ly/dW7gxW
12:10 (part) PLT_Notify
12:11 (join) MayDaniel
12:20 (join) jonrafkind
12:20 (quit) mceier: Quit: leaving
12:24 (quit) SinDoc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
12:27 (quit) tfb: Quit: gone
12:35 (quit) MayDaniel: Read error: Connection reset by peer
12:38 (join) anRch
12:44 (join) mithos28
12:49 (join) realitygrill
12:51 (quit) realitygrill: Client Quit
12:55 (join) mwolfe
13:06 (quit) anRch: Read error: Connection reset by peer
13:07 (part) Hydrant: "Konversation terminated!"
13:12 (quit) Agari: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
13:32 (join) anRch
13:40 (part) jesusito: "ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"
13:45 (join) lucian
14:04 (join) Agari
14:05 (quit) mithos28: Quit: mithos28
14:06 (quit) mwolfe: Read error: Operation timed out
14:12 (join) mceier
14:19 (join) mithos28
14:21 (join) PLT_Notify
14:21 PLT_Notify: racket: master Robby Findler * 783945f (1 files in 1 dirs): adjust the test coverage test suite to the changes in test coverage - http://bit.ly/gJZSb6
14:21 (part) PLT_Notify
14:22 (join) misterm
14:34 (join) Hydrant_
14:41 Hydrant_: is there a very good reference for internal functions... kinda like a grammar?
14:42 Hydrant_: I'm looking at the examples, and want to look up what each function does to really understand what is happening
14:42 Hydrant_: the docs I've seen so far are kinda gappy
14:42 samth: what do you mean, internal functions?
14:42 jonrafkind: like what
14:43 Hydrant_: for instance... set/cc... I haven't found much documentation on it... define-syntax... and so on
14:43 samth: do you mean `let/cc'?
14:43 Hydrant_: define-syntax for example takes syntax-rules... but I don't see the precise definition of syntax-rules anywhere
14:43 Hydrant_: yes...
14:43 Hydrant_: I haven't gotten that far yet ;-)
14:44 samth: here's the let/cc docs: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/cont.html?q=let/cc#%28form._%28%28lib._racket/private/more-scheme..rkt%29._let/cc%29%29
14:44 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/63s7n3z
14:44 jonrafkind: define-syntax is really just define
14:44 jonrafkind: but it does some magic for you to put the value in the higher phase
14:44 samth: here's the define-syntax docs: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/define.html?q=define-syntax&q=let/cc#%28form._%28%28lib._racket/private/base..rkt%29._define-syntax%29%29
14:44 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/6cqau6u
14:44 Hydrant_: okay, but I'd like to look up exactly what each function does... what arguments it takes and what it returns in detail
14:44 jonrafkind: did you really not find these things in the docs?
14:44 samth: the reference provides exactly that information
14:44 Hydrant_: let me look
14:44 samth: let/cc reference call/cc, so you should look there
14:45 samth: the reference documentation doesn't necessarily explain every concept involved, so if you don't know about continuations, you'll need to learn about them first to understand `let/cc' and `call/cc'
14:46 Hydrant_: it could be that I'm not familiar with the racket grammar yet... but I find that the reference sometimes attempts to be a tutorial and a reference... what I want is the strict language reference that says "this is the input... this is the result..."
14:46 tauntaun: Hydrant_: you've piqued my curiosity, because you're asking about relatively advanced features of the language whereas yesterday night you weren't clear on the difference between let and let*.
14:47 Hydrant_: yes, I admit I'm kinda drowning in racket at the moment :-)
14:47 samth: Hydrant_, look here: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/cont.html#%28def._%28%28quote._~23~25kernel%29._call-with-current-continuation%29%29
14:47 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/4je3dnc
14:47 Hydrant_: I know exactly what I want to do, and how I would do it in several other languages, just trying to learn the idioms of racket
14:47 samth: i think that it is very clear on exactly what the function does, and how it works
14:50 Hydrant_: thx for the references... I guess I'm kinda looking for a "language spec" whereas the main documentation for racket seems to be in the guide
14:50 Hydrant_: oh wait, nm... this is a different document
14:50 jonrafkind: there isn't really a language specification
14:50 jonrafkind: probably won't ever be
14:50 samth: the reference is a spec -- it describes the behavior of everything precisely
14:50 jonrafkind: the underlying machine is pretty well specified I guess
14:50 tauntaun: Hydrant_: the documentation has two parts.  The Reference is a reference, while the Guide is closer to a tutorial.
14:50 Hydrant_: that could be my problem... I'm very much a "specification" kinda person ;-)
14:51 carleastlund: What languages have you found approachable by reading a spec?
14:51 samth: Hydrant_, you should think of the reference as a spec
14:51 tauntaun: The Reference is pretty much as thorough a spec as the R6RS language spec.
14:52 tauntaun: ...and I'd echo carleastlund's question.
14:52 Hydrant_: well, the spec fills in gaps... XSLT 2.0, XPATH 2.0 and XQuery... the specs of these are excellent references when you need to look up what a particular thing does... in particular, my learning style has evolved to be decomposing examples to really understand what each piece of code does
14:53 samth: if you want to know what things do, the reference will give you very detailed information
14:53 carleastlund: Okay.  Well, if you're trying to learn Racket, I don't think examples with define-syntax or let/cc are really the place to start.
14:53 Hydrant_: yes, I'm looking at it now
14:53 tauntaun: hear hear.
14:53 Hydrant_: how would you suggest it?
14:54 tauntaun: The same way you learn anything else: a Guide.
14:54 carleastlund: Start with the examples on the Racket home page.  Some of them, at least, should be much simpler than what you're working with so far.
14:54 tauntaun: I'd also recommend Dybvig's book.
14:55 carleastlund: Actually, all of them will be simpler.  None of them use macros (define-syntax) or continuations (let/cc).
14:55 Hydrant_: right, I think what is happening is that when I find a concept I try to descend to the bottom of that concept... so looking up one thing, I try to follow each concept that it depends until I reach the "most primitive"
14:55 carleastlund: Racket has lots of layers of abstraction.  If you try to peel them all away at once, it will take years.
14:55 tauntaun: That kind of reductionism will burden your mind with minutiae.
14:55 Hydrant_: yes, I think this is part of the problem
14:56 tauntaun: Racket's Guide is an enjoyable read.
14:56 tauntaun: Dybvig's book is superb.
14:56 tauntaun: You might even read the first chapter of SICP.
14:56 Hydrant_: I think I'm coming to racket from a very different background
14:56 tauntaun: Everyone does.
14:56 tauntaun: Your situation is not unique.
14:57 Hydrant_: I'm used to peeling away a language until I get to something like assembly, or a machine model
14:57 tauntaun: OMG>
14:57 tauntaun: :-)
14:57 Hydrant_: I prefer to be at a very low-level :-)
14:58 carleastlund: If you want the low-level notions behind Racket, machine code is not the right metaphor.  The lambda calculus would be much closer.  The Little Schemer might be a good introduction for you.
14:58 tauntaun: That's like saying you'll never be able to master English unless you first understand Latin, Greek, and its Scandinavian ancestors.
14:58 Hydrant_: anyways, based on the advice here I think I need to change my learning style
14:58 (quit) saint_cypher: Quit: Leaving.
14:58 Hydrant_: well, metaphors are generally false in CS
14:58 samth: never forget proto-indo-european!
14:59 Hydrant_: in reality, the machine is the machine... there is limited power, and lambda calculus and the machine are equivalent
14:59 carleastlund: Perhaps I meant idiom instead of metaphor.  I did not mean a line-by-line precise analogy.
14:59 Hydrant_: at least in computational power
14:59 tauntaun: Real computational power entails worrying about the important stuff and knowing what to ignore.
15:00 carleastlund: If that argument worked, Hydrant, you wouldn't be bothering to learn new languages, would you?
15:00 tauntaun: Ignore the machine language level, at least for now.
15:00 tauntaun must disappear for a bit but has enjoyed the opportunity to philosophize.
15:00 Hydrant_: well, I learn languages that have efficient transformations to machine so that I can work with the machine :-)  Language is about allowing me to express myself, but still know that there is a little box that has to do what I say
15:00 (quit) tauntaun: Quit: Ex-Chat
15:01 (quit) cky: Changing host
15:01 (join) cky
15:01 carleastlund: If all your languages get you right at the machine, you've just been learning assembly language over and over and over.  The idea of languages like Racket is that you can actually express things in more ways than just machine language.
15:01 Hydrant_: thx for the references, I'm looking them all up at my library
15:02 Hydrant_: I view the relationship of language and machine as symbiotic
15:02 Hydrant_: and indeed, there are some excellent examples of very high levels of abstraction that have amazing transformations to the machine
15:02 Hydrant_: that is where my interests really are... things that are at a high level conceptually, but run as fast as C or whatever
15:03 (join) PLT_Notify
15:03 PLT_Notify: racket: master Eli Barzilay * 0978b54 (1 files in 1 dirs): New version for srfi-17. - http://bit.ly/gdYJRF
15:03 (part) PLT_Notify
15:03 carleastlund: Why is speed particularly interesting?
15:03 carleastlund: And why is C the magic line in the sand?
15:03 Hydrant_: it isn't the magic line... but it is barely an abstraction above most hardware
15:04 Hydrant_: speed is interesting when you are working on HPC applications, which is what I do
15:04 samth: Hydrant_, i think you'd be surprised by modern hardware
15:04 Hydrant_: every day can be decades of wasted computation
15:04 Hydrant_: modern hardware has issues... cache locality can have a major effect on the efficiency of an algorithm
15:05 samth: yes, that's my point
15:05 carleastlund: Well, one point I could make in favor of high level languages is that they can speed development times way up.  Saving you many days, without even taking performance into account.
15:05 Hydrant_: it is, in a pure sense, a constant
15:05 Hydrant_: as in the complexity measure doesn't change, but it can be a very big change in real wall-clock time
15:06 Hydrant_: I'm not against high-level languages, I just like to understand how I can map things from high-level to low-level so that both are happy :-)
15:06 carleastlund: Actually, certain complexity measures can change between languages.  For instance, tail recursion has a huge impact on the space efficiency of certain ways of writing programs.
15:06 Hydrant_: right, complexity changes with machine model... and language is a type of machine
15:07 carleastlund: Anyway, there's no problem with learning how high level languages are implemented, but since they are written in terms of their own abstractions, I think you need to learn the language before you start mapping it to hardware.  The language and the hardware mapping are VERY different beasts.
15:09 Hydrant_: well, this conversation has helped me realize that I should probably take some things as axiomatic right now... and then go down later on
15:09 em: Lajla: what is the plural of Alma Mater ?
15:10 carleastlund: "schools"
15:11 Lajla: almae matres
15:12 Lajla: Like, it means 'kind mother'
15:12 Lajla: Like, a mother good for her children
15:12 Lajla: And the plural of that would be almae matres
15:12 Lajla: mothers who are good for their children.
15:16 eli: bremner: ping
15:17 Hydrant_: I'm going to head to the library to pick up "the little schemer"... thanks for the help :-)
15:18 (quit) Hydrant_: Remote host closed the connection
15:22 (quit) anRch: Quit: anRch
15:24 bremner: eli: I'm just about to reply to your message...
15:24 bremner: should I hit send?
15:25 samth: bremner, eli loves to recieve email :)
15:26 (join) tauntaun
15:26 bremner puts samth in copy and adds a great joke he heard about vegetarian zombies
15:27 bremner: and a chain letter about world peace.
15:27 bremner: eli: sent.
15:27 eli: bremner: I just wanted a quick clarification about the code from Jens and Dorai, since Dorai already replied.
15:27 eli: (With an unsurprising "do whatever's needed" reply.)
15:30 bremner: is my mail quick and or clear enough?
15:30 eli: Reading your reply, it's still not clear to me what I should do with Jens/Dorai's code...
15:30 bremner: just put in a note that they say LGPL2.1+ is ok
15:30 eli: Should I just leave their copyright line and add a line that it's distributed as part of racket?
15:31 eli: I don't like specifying the version number there -- what happens when racket's license updates?
15:31 (join) MayDaniel
15:31 eli: (I don't even know which LGPL version we're using ATM.)
15:31 bremner: OK, then "distributed under the same terms as the rest of racket, by their permission"; maybe point to a file?
15:32 eli: OK, I think that this will work.
15:32 eli: I'll do the same to Chonkai's file.
15:32 bremner: perfect.
15:32 eli: That leaves the deflate/inflate things, and the latex stuffs.
15:32 eli: I really don't know what to do with either of them...
15:32 bremner: is the latex stuff really needed?
15:33 eli: People use it...
15:33 bremner: ok
15:33 bremner: the inflate/deflate stuff is pretty core?
15:34 eli: Yes, and as you can guess, not something that can be rewritten from scratch because of license problems...
15:34 eli: BTW, re the tests -- yes, it will be fine to just dump the whole thing.  Our build script makes sure that there are no dependencies on stuff in there.
15:36 bremner: If, from your point of view, it is useful to distribute the tests in the source tarballs, then I can do the ripping out.
15:37 eli: We're only distributing the tests in the source distributions -- but not because of any licensing issues, just because they're unnecessary for teh average binary-distro user.
15:38 eli: But that implies that there cannot be dependencies on stuff that's in there.
15:38 bremner: well, the deflate thing is not really a barrier for Debian, so whatever you think is best there. I can just document the issue.
15:38 eli: You mean that my understanding was correct?
15:38 eli: (That debian has no problems, it's only us who are the offenders?)
15:39 samth: eli, did you try emailing sigplan-style@acm.org about the license?
15:40 bremner: well, my understanding is that file might make all of racket GPL, which seems to be something you want to avoid, but is OK for debian. So, your conclusions are correct, although I wouldn't say we "do everything as GPL"; unless you mean, we always distribute source?
15:40 eli: samth: No, I can only imagine the pain involved.  But don't let me stop you from doing so.  I'll give you a quarter.
15:40 samth: i don't think emailing them and asking what the license is would be painful
15:41 eli: bremner: OK, so I think that I'll pretend that it's fine for now...  (As others have done for a while...)
15:42 samth: eli, bremner, which are the relevant deflate/inflate files?
15:42 eli: samth: Well, I'll be happy if you do that...  (I just imagine the virtual runaround that will be needed and I twitch.)
15:42 bremner: the Cambridge U. Press people sound like they don't actually know what copyright is, so _that_ could be painful ;)
15:42 samth: i think it's clear we have to stop distributing the JFP style
15:43 eli: samth: collects/mzlib/deflate.rkt
15:43 eli: and inflate in the same place -- though that has a strange looking "not copyrighted" thing.
15:44 (join) realitygrill
15:45 bremner: I have to go for a bit, but ping me/send email if I can help more.
15:46 eli: bremner: I'll send you an update when I commit more stuff.
15:53 samth: eli, probably the right solution for inflate/deflate is to translate this code instead: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=105899089116252&w=2
15:57 samth: eli, http://zlib.net/zlib_license.html
15:58 eli: samth: Just a translatiuon is a huge job.
15:58 samth: i know
15:59 eli: But perhaps the current zlib license means that everything is ok now?
15:59 samth: no, it's different code
15:59 samth: but by the same people
15:59 samth: i think
16:00 (quit) mithos28: Quit: mithos28
16:00 eli: Can you see if it's the same or not?
16:00 samth: i'm looking
16:03 samth: it's not exactly the same
16:03 samth: but they're very similar
16:03 eli: So it would be the updated version of the same code then?
16:03 eli: I don't know if this can justify saying in our version that it's based on LGPLed code.
16:04 eli: Maybe just say that it's based on code that is now LGPL?
16:04 eli looks for a lawyer
16:05 (quit) MayDaniel: 
16:16 (join) saint_cypher
16:24 (join) mithos28
16:29 (quit) mithos28: Client Quit
16:30 (join) mithos28
16:38 samth: jeapostrophe, you should use --redirect-main http://docs.racket-lang.org/
16:41 jonrafkind: omg, if rkb comes into existence i will have a seizure
16:41 samth: jonrafkind, that would be unfortunate
16:41 jonrafkind: rkb or my seziure?
16:42 samth: the seizure
16:43 jonrafkind: i cant wait for the day when we have rk[a-z], hell maybe we can start using uppercase too. "did you get my rkQ file?" "no, i thought you were sending an rkv file..??"
16:46 carleastlund: jonrafkind, you're thinking small.  I expect us to blow past uppercase, digits, and greek letters, and start discussing the relative merits of Hebrew versus Chinese characters.
16:46 jonrafkind: now you're talkin!
16:47 jonrafkind: did you get my rk\u4325 file???
16:47 carleastlund: Typing in the #\r#\k#\backspace extension is going to be really hard...
16:59 (join) MayDaniel
17:09 (join) ghiu
17:09 ghiu: hi :)
17:09 (quit) masm: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
17:09 tauntaun: hi back.
17:09 tauntaun: :)
17:22 (quit) mithos28: Quit: mithos28
17:23 (quit) MayDaniel: 
17:39 (join) mithos28
17:46 (quit) tauntaun: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
17:51 (join) masm
18:11 (quit) Demosthenes: Quit: leaving
18:19 (join) Demosthenes
18:20 (nick) samth -> samth_away
18:22 (join) tauntaun
18:29 (join) jao
18:29 (quit) jao: Changing host
18:29 (join) jao
18:30 (quit) mithos28: Quit: mithos28
18:31 (nick) tauntaun -> tautaun_away
18:31 (quit) cpach: *.net *.split
18:32 (join) cpach
18:40 (join) jesusito
18:59 (quit) mceier: Quit: leaving
19:11 (quit) Agari: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
19:25 (quit) realitygrill: Read error: Connection reset by peer
19:33 (quit) saint_cypher: Quit: Leaving.
19:46 (quit) carleastlund: Quit: carleastlund
19:48 (quit) mye: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
20:11 (quit) jonrafkind: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
20:11 (join) saint_cypher
20:19 (quit) saint_cypher: Quit: Leaving.
20:19 em: jonwhat's rkb?
20:21 Demosthenes: wow, there's no push/pull primitive function?
20:21 Demosthenes: or did i miss something?
20:41 (quit) ghiu: Quit: ghiu
20:48 (join) PLT_Notify
20:48 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 7d94936 (4 files in 1 dirs): change representation of parameterizations ...
20:48 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 5249152 (1 files in 1 dirs): partially clean up hash-code implementation
20:48 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 4b13dc0 (12 files in 6 dirs): split jit.c into multiple files
20:48 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 0e590d3 (1 files in 1 dirs): VS10 project fixup
20:48 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * aacb98f (5 files in 2 dirs): PPC JIT fixup
20:48 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits 0978b54...aacb98f - http://bit.ly/eHkgfN
20:48 (part) PLT_Notify
20:50 (part) jesusito: "ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"
20:52 bremner: Demosthenes: push and pull? You push and pop?
21:01 (join) coyo
21:11 (quit) tautaun_away: Quit: Ex-Chat
21:12 Demosthenes: bremner: yeah :P
21:14 Demosthenes: i was working without them, and then realized what i was doing, and stopped to check ;]
21:41 bremner: hmm. well for immutable lists cons and rest. mutably I guess you need to use set-mcar! and set-mcdr!
21:52 Demosthenes: eh, (cons new oldlist) and (cdr list) ;]
21:52 bremner: right, or cdr is also known as "rest"
21:53 bremner: like car is also known as "first"
21:54 bremner: maybe cons is also pair
21:54 Demosthenes: fyi, mongodb support rocks
21:56 bremner: nope, it seems I imagined pair.
21:58 bremner: oic, first and rest are only for lists, not arbitrary pairs
22:57 (join) offby1`
23:00 (quit) rudybot: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
23:00 (join) rudybot
23:00 (quit) offby1: Ping timeout: 255 seconds
23:00 (quit) offby1`: Changing host
23:00 (join) offby1`
23:01 (join) jesusito
23:08 (part) jesusito: "ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"
23:23 (join) shofetim
23:43 (quit) shofetim: Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)
23:46 Demosthenes: so, i'm a bit confused... i broke a program into parts, and i require a database link in the top level one, then i require some of the sub-modules. while i haven't any global vars, the sub-modules don't have access to the required libs... so i'm repeating require in these.
23:46 Demosthenes: maybe i should be using a load command, instead of making a module...