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04:13 lewis1711: Right, i have an issue. I am loathe to program more functionally in racket, because of all the extra overhead that would go into allocating new structures while keeping the old one
04:14 lewis1711: but is that even happening? or does the compiler use trickery?
04:14 Lajla: lewis1711, well, the thing is that you end up copying it anyway if you still use the old one.
04:14 Lajla: And if you don't still use the old one after you've created a new one, it gets garbage-collected anyway.
04:14 Lajla: Not sure how efficient the racket implementation is in this tohugh
04:14 lewis1711: I am not talking about memory overhead
04:14 Lajla: About what then?
04:14 lewis1711: the overhead of (seemingly pointless) allocating and freeing memory that must go on
04:15 lewis1711: rather than just mutating in place:P
04:15 Lajla: Hmm
04:15 Lajla: I know for a fact that GHC in a lot of cases mutates in plae when it can prove it won't need the old structure any more.
04:15 Lajla: Not sure about racket though
04:15 Lajla: Racket is not really an implementation written with speed in mind as much as descriptive error messages.
04:16 Lajla: lewis1711, ever heard of the Stalin Scheme compiler?
04:16 Lajla: It is called Stalin because it "brutally" optimizes.
04:16 lewis1711: I have
04:16 Lajla: I love that name.
04:17 lewis1711: my hitler compiler never took off though
04:18 Lajla: You wrote a compiler and called it Hitler? =P
04:18 Lajla: I love it when people have the balls to do that.
04:18 lewis1711: no, just pointing out the double standards when it comes to mass murderers
04:18 Lajla: If I ever make one, I muight call it auvinen, after that Finnish school shooter.
04:18 Lajla: Ahh.
04:19 lewis1711: I guess Stalin never killed many Jews, which are worth more than regular people
04:19 Lajla: What double standard?
04:19 Lajla: Ahh
04:19 Lajla: Well, he also killed less,b ut yeah, I give you that.
04:19 Lajla: I'm with you there.
04:19 Lajla: It's also about who won and who lost
04:19 Lajla: History is written by the victors.
04:19 lewis1711: are you talking about in mass murders or war? depends if you count the Ukrain famines
04:19 Lajla: I mean, the US also had concentration camps.
04:20 lewis1711: anyway, I probably shouldn't piss people off who help me code
04:20 lewis1711: so I'll leave it:P
04:20 Lajla: You don't piss me of.
04:20 Lajla: I always enjoy a good old dose of hitler relativism.
04:20 lewis1711: yeah but others
04:21 Lajla: Well, yeah, I guess.
04:21 Lajla: Not everyone is as enlightened a superior and more highly evolved being such as we.
04:22 lewis1711: true dat
04:23 Lajla: Well, em probably too.
04:23 Lajla: Ain't that right em?
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04:51 Andy___: Hello
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04:52 Lajla: Good day to you, my good man.
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04:53 rapacity: he got scared and left
04:56 lewis1711: :/
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05:06 _danb_: I get scared sometimes... but I don't leave
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06:10 Lajla: I wish I could leave myself lke that.
06:16 lewis1711: I dunno if I am too happy with class OOP in racket. I feel like prototypes might be the way to go
06:16 lewis1711: classes just feel very... unschemey
06:18 Lajla: lewis1711, I would agree, let's roll our own object system. =)
06:19 lewis1711: heh it is tempting, though i might just use prometheus
06:20 Lajla: lewis1711, no I already have 8 lines of code.
06:20 Lajla: I have a  'top' object.
06:21 Lajla: Like (top 'hierarchy) already returns ()
06:21 lewis1711: haha
06:21 lewis1711: paste?
06:22 Lajla: lewis1711, hold on, making some changes now.
06:22 Lajla: lewis1711, what I want to do is like, if you have an object and you do (obj 'with 'some-symbol some-function)
06:22 Lajla: It returns itself, except with the 'some-symbol messaged changed to the some-function method.
06:23 lewis1711: prometheus seems to do exactly that
06:23 lewis1711: http://planet.racket-lang.org/package-source/daedalus/prometheus.plt/1/0/doc.txt
06:23 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/5tdd5z5
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06:35 Lajla: Why when I have good ideas, are people always before me with them.
06:35 Lajla: No credit, no fame, no women, no fast cars.
06:36 lewis1711: haha
06:36 lewis1711: :(
06:36 lewis1711: I sort of want to do typed racket though
06:36 lewis1711: and do "object orientation" that way. err, will encapsulation at least
06:36 lewis1711: does typed racket have anything like ML interfaces, or haskell typeclasses though
06:40 Lajla: Hey, dude, I'm getting there.
06:43 Lajla: Like, what I now have is like (random-stack from a-random-list (x) (push (call-method push-stack! this x)) (pop (call-method pop-stack! this))))
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08:37 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 2d7dfab (3 files in 1 dirs): fix docs for methods that accept a list of pairs as points
08:37 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 379feae (1 files in 1 dirs): fix typos ...
08:37 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 9070a4c (1 files in 1 dirs): fix doc typos
08:37 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 8c0d19f (2 files in 2 dirs): fix `configure' for 64-bit Mac OS X kernel
08:37 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits 4b1960e...8c0d19f - http://bit.ly/h3A0jA
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09:59 PLT_Notify: racket: release Eli Barzilay * 672ac19 (1 files in 1 dirs): Improve the apache rewrite instructions. ...
09:59 PLT_Notify: racket: release Eli Barzilay * e61034c (1 files in 1 dirs): Don't assume that the user sexpr is a list. ...
09:59 PLT_Notify: racket: release Matthew Flatt * c88cde6 (1 files in 1 dirs): fix typos ...
09:59 PLT_Notify: racket: release commits aeedcef...c88cde6 - http://bit.ly/eeYyo0
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10:08 em: Do you guys keep your .rkt files in one directory? Do you have a racket directory in your ~ ?  What is that racket directory doing there, it has directory in it called collects
10:09 bremner: bah, after I send the bug report, I figure out the "debugger stepper only once" problem is a regresion from 5.02
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10:09 PLT_Notify: racket: release Eli Barzilay * f3e51f3 (1 files in 1 dirs): Update version number for the v5.1 release - http://bit.ly/hdIq7R
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10:19 bremner: em: I tend to store racket files in the project they relate to.
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10:23 em: bremner: do you know what this #mredauto stuff is?
10:24 em: it's filling up my home directory
10:25 bremner: em: no, I don't see anything like that.
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10:26 em: im getting files put in my ~ that look like #mredauto#13#
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10:28 bremner: em: maybe it's autosave files from DrRacket or something. I mainly use emacs to edit racket files.
10:28 em: i see
10:28 em: yeah it's coming from drracket
10:28 em: bremner: is there a racket mode in emacs?
10:29 bremner: em: geiser works pretty well
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10:39 em: eli: do you know how to make it so that the #mredauto#13# files will go to a different place other than my ~
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11:24 samth: em, you can turn off autosave files in the preferences
11:26 eli: em: Please complain on the mailing list -- it's annoyed me in the past, but there was no good solution.
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12:29 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 0840430 (3 files in 3 dirs): clean up `define-syntax-rules' ...
12:29 PLT_Notify: racket: master Matthew Flatt * 9d2e025 (2 files in 1 dirs): Rackety Slideshow tutorial
12:29 PLT_Notify: racket: master commits 8c0d19f...9d2e025 - http://bit.ly/gtNhlO
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12:51 danking: em: Scheme-mode with Quack and Paredit is what I use for emacs and I find it a much more pleasurable experience than DrRacket.
12:51 danking: No offense to the DrRacket, he's great but not my style.
12:51 danking: I need a rough and tumble kind of guy who's seen a bunch of warfare and survived, not the clean cut man with an MD :P
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13:27 em: eli: okay cool. (also samth ) yeah because I *do* like the autosaving, and would rather not turn that off, if there were a way to just tell it to put them some place else.
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15:40 jonrafkind: if i match groups within regex's, how can I get the groups out?
15:40 jonrafkind: oh regexp-match gives them to me.. but i need all matches
15:41 eli: You can't get all matches for a group that appears inside a *.
15:41 eli: (That's true for all the regexp things that I've seen.)
15:43 jonrafkind: wait in ruby i can do "a5xb3xc4".scan(/(\d)x/)
15:43 jonrafkind: => [["5"], ["3"]]
15:43 jonrafkind: how can I do that in racket?
15:48 jonrafkind: ok i guess i can just keep calling regexp-match-positions
15:51 eli: jonrafkind: Ah, that `scan' thing looks like something that is similar to `regexp-match*' but gives you the list of results of the uses of `regexp-match' that it got.
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15:52 eli: As an example I tried "a5xb123xc4".scan(/((\d)*x)/)
15:52 jonrafkind: yea
15:52 eli: And what I was talking about is something that would return [["5x", "5"], ["123x", ["1", "2", "3"]]]
15:52 eli: Sorry, [["5x", ["5"]], ["123x", ["1", "2", "3"]]]
15:52 jonrafkind: oh ok
15:53 jonrafkind: well im just trying to emulate scan() from ruby
15:55 (nick) samth -> samth_away
15:57 eli: jonrafkind: That sounds like a weak reason...
15:57 jonrafkind: i have a ruby compiler :p
15:57 eli: BTW, I don't see any reason why you get back [["5"], ["3"]] and not [["5x", "5"], ["3x", "3"]] in your example.
15:58 jonrafkind: because the x isnt in the grouping
15:58 jonrafkind: hm
15:58 eli: But it's something that is returned from a simple match, no?
15:58 jonrafkind: yea
15:58 eli: Unless ruby is even more different than I thought.
15:58 jonrafkind: for some reason it gives preference to the groupings
15:58 jonrafkind: which I agree is sort of wierd
15:59 eli: "Preference"??  You mean that sometime it does keep that?
15:59 jonrafkind: i mean /(\d)x/ gives you back numbers but /\dx/ gives both
15:59 eli: Oh, I see -- "a5xb3xc4".scan(/\dx/) -> ["5x", "3x"]
16:00 jonrafkind: "a5xb3xc4".scan(/(\d)x/)
16:00 jonrafkind: => [["5"], ["3"]]
16:00 jonrafkind: irb(main):004:0> "a5xb3xc4".scan(/\dx/)
16:00 jonrafkind: => ["5x", "3x"]
16:00 jonrafkind: yea
16:00 eli wonders what they were smoking.
16:00 jonrafkind wonders where I can get it
16:00 eli: In other words, in a (lambda (x) (scan x "string")) I can't even tell if the result will be a list of strings, or a list of listsof strings.
16:01 jonrafkind: yea..
16:02 clklein: Anyone know how to put a footnote on the title of a Scribble document? (scribble/sigplan if it matters.)
16:02 eli: jonrafkind: Much fun.
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16:19 Chanil: hello
16:19 Chanil: anyone is here?
16:19 jonrafkind: yes
16:20 Chanil: oh thanks!
16:20 Chanil: I want to ask you something
16:20 Chanil: about terminal and racket-lang
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16:29 rapacity: :p
16:29 tony_: :-D
16:31 jonrafkind: world class
16:33 tony_: class act
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20:50 PLT_Notify: racket: master Robby Findler * 731a754 (2 files in 2 dirs): added tests that check on provide/contract when there are multiple files containing modules ...
20:50 PLT_Notify: racket: master Robby Findler * 4d9c150 (1 files in 1 dirs): 2htdp/image: adjust tests
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22:29 lewis1711: if a racket application seems to lag and stutter every 30 seconds or so, is that probably the garbage collector?
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22:32 rapacity: probably
22:34 lewis1711: I'm trying to figure out what it could possibly be garbage collecting tbh
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