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16:02 clklein: samth: This is a `match' bug, right?
16:04 clklein: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117739
16:07 clklein: OK, Linux DrRacket at long last. What was the redex problem?
16:08 clklein: oops, wrong channel for that last one :)
16:09 samth: clklein, it's an undocumented "feature"
16:09 clklein: what does it "do?"
16:09 samth: (var _) binds the name `_'
16:10 clklein: ah
16:10 clklein: is there a free-identifier=? missing somewhere?
16:11 samth: all of the match keywords are matched symbolically
16:11 clklein: Didn't we recently have a discussion about that being bad?
16:11 samth: yes
16:12 clklein: OK, I'm extra convinced now :)
16:12 samth: there are some peculiar reasons why the alternative is bad for match too
16:12 samth: but mostly it's that it would break existing code
16:12 samth: changing it would, that is
16:12 clklein: Hrm
16:13 samth: for example, eli's course teachpack does this
16:13 clklein: The current behavior is pretty painful, though. It took me quite a while to narrow my problem down to the spelling of a struct name.
16:13 clklein: No one ever suspects the pattern matcher.
16:13 samth: (define (cons a b) (unless (list? b) (error 'bad)) (real-cons a b))
16:14 clklein: ahhh
16:14 samth: if i changed it to match by binding, then `cons' is no longer a pattern constructor
16:14 samth: which means eli has to write a match expander
16:14 clklein: right
16:14 samth: which is doable, but breaks his current code
16:14 samth: annoyingly, I had this discussion w/ matthew before the 5.0 release, and then failed to change it then
16:16 clklein: hrm, but at least current code breaks at expansion-time
16:16 clklein: that's worth something
16:16 samth: yes
16:16 clklein: I vote for changing it, if you're accepting votes.
16:17 samth: maybe i'll change it for 5.1
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18:57 askhader: Does net/imap have some way of handling imap connections that require SSL?
18:58 askhader: Or do you just need to specify the correct port?
18:58 askhader: Furthermore, is every email in the slected mailbox downloaded?
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20:10 clklein: Anyone know how to use the macro stepper? I can't figure out how to convince it to expand one of my macros.
20:11 jonrafkind: right click on it, show macor
20:11 jonrafkind: or press 's' to show it
20:11 Lajla: Macor
20:12 Lajla: I am macor, the destroyed of worlds.
20:12 Lajla: It kind of sounds like that.
20:12 Lajla: Henceforth, your technological and biological resources shall be adapted to serve Macor.
20:12 jonrafkind: lothor of the macro people
20:12 clklein: jonrafkind: I got it to say "show 'my-macro' imported from 'my-module.rkt' but it still isn't expanding it
20:13 jonrafkind: it just skips over it if you click the forward/back buttons?
20:13 clklein: I'm at the end of the reduction sequence, and it's not expanded.
20:13 jonrafkind: i think ryan said if the macro duplicates any expressions then it can't be shown or something
20:14 jonrafkind: but i dunno, is it something i can test easily?
20:15 clklein: It's two files. I can email them if you don't mind taking a look.
20:16 Demosthenes: eli: rock on. now i've got great logging!
20:16 jonrafkind: ok
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20:20 jonrafkind: clklein, you have 5 minutes :p
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20:20 clklein: jonrafkind: sent
20:20 jonrafkind: how is macro stepper formed
20:21 clklein: hrm?
20:21 jonrafkind: you havent heard of the 'how is babby formed' meme?
20:21 clklein: hah, no, but it sounds excellent
20:21 jonrafkind: http://www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/babby.swf
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20:23 carleastlund: this mroing in PLT...
20:27 jonrafkind: ha the macro stepper broke when i tried to expand 'and'
20:28 clklein: macro stepper does not know how `and' is formed
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20:29 Lajla: clklein, it implements and as primitive?
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20:31 jonrafkind: i have no idea why this isnt expanding
20:31 clklein: OK, I'm satisfied to know that it's not just me being dense.
20:31 jonrafkind: omg, another drracket error
20:32 clklein: ugh
20:33 clklein: How long until the next release?
20:33 jonrafkind: februrary or so?
20:34 (quit) jao: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
20:34 clklein: that's good
20:34 jonrafkind: quick note, in `make-rule' you reference conc.body, but you have conc-body
20:34 jonrafkind: as a pattern variable
20:35 clklein: ahh, thanks!
20:35 jonrafkind: yay not entirely worthless!
20:35 clklein: And it only took 2 drracket errors to find it!
20:36 jonrafkind: time to go, cya
20:37 clklein: jonrafkind: Wow, that typo was actually what was making my test fail. Good jorb!
20:39 clklein: Who needs a macro stepper when you have a jonrafkind?
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20:54 clklein: carleastlund: What do you think about an unstable/hash function that's like hash-ref/default but hash-set!s the keys value if it does not already exist
20:54 carleastlund: In other words, hash-ref!/default ?
20:55 clklein: yea
20:55 carleastlund: I think all the hash-ref/FOO functions could easily have hash-ref!/FOO analogs.
20:55 carleastlund: Well, except for /check, because hash-ref! doesn't have that option, I believe.
20:56 clklein: What would hash-ref/identity! do?
20:57 clklein: oh, duh, nevermind
20:57 carleastlund: Put the ! at the ref, please.
20:58 clklein: oh yea, right
20:58 clklein: so I take it you're OK with me adding these?
21:00 carleastlund: Go for it.  The "unstable" collection is not a very possessive place.
21:00 carleastlund: (In addition to which, I think they're a good idea.  :)
21:00 clklein: k
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