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06:37 clklein: mattmight: I think it's here: http://planet.racket-lang.org/display.ss?package=pfds.plt&owner=krhari
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10:20 mattmight: Oops.  Already re-implemented it.
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10:39 jeapostrophe_: mattmight: always check planet :)
10:39 jeapostrophe_: http://planet.plt-scheme.org/display.ss?package=pfds.plt&owner=krhari
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18:10 Lajla: Does Roacket support docstrings in any fashion?
18:10 Lajla: chandler, you the honour the answer this one.
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18:45 jonrafkind: theres define/doc or something
18:45 jonrafkind: well at least provide/doc
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18:45 jonrafkind: what would you do with the docstring if you could write one? do you want to write (get-doc-string some-function) ?
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20:06 Lajla: jonrafkind, I'm not sure, I just wanted to know I guess.
20:06 jonrafkind: you can always write a really simple macro to get it
20:06 Lajla: That is true
20:06 Lajla: But that will probably add a lot of complexity for each definition
20:07 Lajla: You know, I was thinking
20:07 Lajla: And when I'm thinking
20:07 Lajla: that means that stuff will, and shall, go wrong.
20:07 jonrafkind: (define-syntax-rule (define+doc-string (name args ...) doc body ...) (define (name args ...) body ...)
20:07 Lajla: But why do functions have docstrings in so many languages?
20:07 Lajla: Don't you want bindings to have them?
20:07 jonrafkind: well they are usually a poor man's documentation system
20:07 Lajla: Really?
20:07 Lajla: I thought they were state of the art.
20:07 Lajla: CLojure has them.
20:07 Lajla: And that is stateof the art.
20:07 Lajla: Without TCO.
20:07 Lajla: But still
20:07 Lajla: State of the art.
20:08 Lajla: But like, say bindings have docstrings, that makes a lot more sense nay?
20:08 jonrafkind: i dont think ive ever used a doc string in any language that supports them
20:08 Lajla: Then you can also give them to constants
20:08 jonrafkind: i usually goto the web to read about the functions
20:08 Lajla: And why would function literals need them?
20:08 Lajla: Yeah, but if you have a repl.
20:08 jonrafkind: function literals shouldn't have them
20:08 Lajla: It's pretty nice.
20:08 jonrafkind: yes
20:08 Lajla: Well, they can if docstrings are part of lambda
20:08 Lajla: rather than part of define.
20:09 jonrafkind: thats true, but it would be nice to have a use-case for such a feature
20:09 Lajla: Clojure has a pretty sophistuicated metadata system on functions
20:09 jonrafkind: does clojure allow doc strings for function literals?
20:09 Lajla: You can even put the email of the author in them. =P
20:09 Lajla: Clojure has them for everything it seems
20:09 Lajla: You can add metadata to about everything.
20:09 Lajla: Including numbers
20:10 jonrafkind: 5 ""brought to you by jon!!!!11111111111oneone!"
20:10 Lajla: (with-meta {:doc "this is the number three, an exact integer"} 3)
20:10 Lajla: That's now the number 3 with a docstring.
20:10 jonrafkind: so whats that number + 4
20:10 jonrafkind: how does meta information move around?
20:10 Lajla: well, 7 without doc I guess.
20:10 Lajla: Not really.
20:11 Lajla: But it's just a bizarre example I guess.
20:11 Lajla: But I like the fact that constants can also have docs here, not only functions, and that it's more extensible.
20:11 Lajla: But I think just making them part of define, rather than of lambda, solves a lot more.
20:11 Lajla: (doc ...) would have to be a special form then though, I guess.
20:11 jonrafkind: i suppose.. i rarely use the repl for anything
20:12 Lajla: But it makes hacking and slashing without knowing what you do so much easier. =(
20:13 jonrafkind: well now there are chaperones in racket, i wonder if you can attach arbitrary values to them
20:13 Lajla: I don't now what that is, because I am a noob who knows nothing of racket, if I did, I would surely conceide that racket is the most superior language for any task in the world.
20:13 jonrafkind: yea I guess you can
20:14 jonrafkind: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/chaperones.html?q=chaperone#(tech._chaperone)
20:14 jonrafkind: basically you can wrap a value in a "chaperone" and have it act like the original value except for some cases
20:14 jonrafkind: so probably you could wrap functions inside chaperones that contained a doc-string
20:15 Lajla: Hmm
20:15 Lajla: how hygienic are these things I wonder.
20:15 Lajla: Like, structs are made with macros mainly, right?
20:15 Lajla: In racket?
20:15 jonrafkind: yea
20:15 jonrafkind: i dont think theres any relation between chaperons and hygiene
20:15 Lajla: so like, if I were to have a random struct, and try (vector-ref random-struct 0)
20:15 Lajla: Does that give me something
20:15 Lajla: ?
20:15 Lajla: Well, no, I'm just insane and keep hopping from subject. =(
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20:24 Lajla: jonrafkind, you don't know? =(
20:24 jonrafkind: structs are vectors or something yea..
20:25 jonrafkind: well it didnt work
20:25 Lajla: So basically the hygiene can be broken if you know how it ś implemented?
20:25 Lajla: Well, if it can be broken there is no hygiene, but you get what I mean.
20:26 jonrafkind: no i dont get it
20:26 jonrafkind: what does this have to do with hygiene
20:27 Lajla: Well, I mean, like
20:27 Lajla: if you know how it's implemented
20:27 Lajla: Can you reference them in another way.
20:27 Lajla: Like, let's just asssume that structs really are vectors.
20:27 jonrafkind: thats not hygiene.. thats just lack of encapsulation
20:28 Lajla: And (program.how-many-clicks hello-world) really macros out to (vector-ref hello-world 9) or something.
20:28 Lajla: Ahh, well.
20:28 Lajla: Then you do get what I mean.
20:28 Lajla: But can you enter it?
20:28 Lajla: Is the encapsulatoin imperfect?
20:28 jonrafkind: it didnt work in the repl
20:28 Lajla: yeah, but maybe there's another way.
20:28 jonrafkind: maybe the implementation for structs changed
20:29 Lajla: We will break into this.
20:29 (join) cs-student
20:29 Lajla: And when we do.
20:29 Lajla: We will get nice and shiny white airbook macs.
20:29 cs-student: hey can i install drracket on ubuntu?
20:29 jonrafkind: ok but im busy reading pictures of lolcats
20:29 Lajla: We can put into envelopes.
20:29 jonrafkind: cs-student, yea theres an ubuntu installer
20:29 Lajla: cs-student, yes
20:29 cs-student: i got the *.sh file but i dont know how to run it
20:29 Lajla: You have my permission
20:29 cs-student: where is the installer?
20:29 jonrafkind: http://download.racket-lang.org/racket-5-0-2-bin-i386-linux-ubuntu-jaunty-sh.html
20:29 rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/29zba65
20:29 jonrafkind: are you in a terminal?
20:29 jonrafkind: run 'sh blahblah.sh'
20:29 jonrafkind: or chmod +x blah.sh; ./blah.sh
20:30 jonrafkind: files ending in .sh means they are shell scripts where 'sh' is the name of the shell
20:30 jonrafkind: you are probably not running the 'sh' shell, most likely you are running bash, but for historical purposes sh is linked to bash
20:30 cs-student: on terminal i typed in "sh " and then dragged in the file from my desktop to the terminal window
20:30 jonrafkind: i dont think you can do that
20:30 cs-student: and it just opened up another program that showed me the source
20:30 jonrafkind: you have to give the name of the file to sh
20:31 jonrafkind: go to where you downloaded the file and type 'sh blah.sh'
20:31 jonrafkind: using cd and whatnot
20:31 cs-student: ok
20:31 Lajla: You can just use the GUI, no?
20:31 jonrafkind: i dunno, does ubuntu run sh files?
20:31 Lajla: double click on the sh file works okay in most configurations I guess, but I think it's the chmod maybe.
20:32 jonrafkind: oh, so then its useless
20:32 Lajla: you imply that I use anything but gnunewsense?
20:32 Lajla: You dare to insinuate that I would give my FREEDOMS away?
20:32 jonrafkind: maybe you can right click on the file and chmod +x it
20:32 Lajla: cs-student,
20:32 Lajla: do you have a screenshot
20:34 Lajla: jonrafkind, anyway, back to the imporant matters.
20:35 Lajla: The incapsulation of structs.
20:35 Lajla: The very fait of the universe may depend on this research, we need this to break Dr. Evilus evil plans for universal domination via the quantum-singularity-prism.
20:35 Lajla: fate
20:37 jonrafkind: read the source :p
20:41 Lajla: Can't I just turn the wheel until I have the answer.
20:41 Lajla: cs-student,
20:41 Lajla: do you have scroansheets?
20:41 Lajla: Of your most perilous situation
20:54 cs-student: ok i think i got it
20:54 cs-student: thnx
20:55 Lajla: cs-student, we were happy to be off service.
20:55 Lajla: Now.
20:55 Lajla: will you help us defeat Dr. Evilus?
20:55 Lajla: You get a free pogostick and a cool helmet for it. =)
20:55 jonrafkind: dont scare the customers
20:55 Lajla: =(
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21:22 benk_: Can anyone point me at the best place to find slideshow examples?
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21:23 benk_: Also has anyone ever formatted code besides racket/scheme code in slideshow? For example haskell or ml?
21:23 benk_: or common languages like java c++ etc.
21:23 askhader: Have you heard of latex?
21:24 askhader: http://www.latex-project.org/
21:24 askhader: It's a very simple document preparation system.
21:24 benk_: sure. Is there a straightforward way to embed latex into slideshow?
21:25 askhader: Hm.
21:25 askhader: latex can write to a plethora of formats
21:25 askhader: I'm /certain/ it can work with slideshows, I know because I attend lectures (often related to scheme) where the instructor prepared the slides in tex
21:26 benk_: You're pretty sure he uses slideshow?
21:26 benk_: he/she
21:26 askhader: Uh, certain?
21:26 askhader: Also haskell, the very same prof
21:27 benk_: There are styles for laying out haskell code in latex. I guess he uses something like that and then embeds the tex output into slideshow
21:28 benk_: I'll check the slideshow docs.
21:28 askhader: What exactly do you want your tool to do?>
21:29 benk_: Well I want to be able to use the drawing / animation primitives in slideshow along with haskell code samples and latex type system rules
21:30 (quit) cs-student: Quit: Page closed
21:31 askhader: I'm sorry, maybe I'm being dull but I have no idea what you're looking for.
21:34 benk_: If I could embed typeset latex into slideshow directly that would suffice
21:36 benk_: I just looked in the repository. There's a file there by jay mccarthy called slideshow-latex.plt
21:37 askhader: http://www.latex-project.org/
21:37 askhader: er
21:37 askhader: http://amath.colorado.edu/documentation/LaTeX/prosper/
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22:51 eli: rudybot: init http://tmp.barzilay.org/x
22:51 rudybot: eli: your "http://tmp.barzilay.org/x" sandbox is ready
22:52 eli: rudybot: (define plus (with-meta 'doc "Curried addition" 'author "Eli Barzilay" 'license "LGPL" (lambda (x) (with-meta 'doc (format "A function that adds ~s" x) (lambda (y) (+ x y))))))
22:52 rudybot: eli: Done.
22:52 eli: rudybot: (get-prop plus 'author)
22:52 rudybot: eli: ; Value: "Eli Barzilay"
22:52 eli: rudybot: (get-prop plus 'license)
22:52 rudybot: eli: ; Value: "LGPL"
22:52 eli: rudybot: (get-prop plus 'doc)
22:52 rudybot: eli: ; Value: "Curried addition"
22:52 eli: rudybot: (get-prop (plus 8) 'doc)
22:52 rudybot: eli: ; Value: "A function that adds 8"
22:52 eli: Lajla: ^
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23:21 tewk: ffi question? how do I pass the address of cstruct to a function
23:22 tewk: Is there an exmaple somewhere?
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23:34 Kevin_: hi there everyone
23:35 Kevin_: I had a computer science question
23:35 Kevin_: it's not really related to Dr. Racket though
23:35 askhader: Ask.
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23:35 Kevin_: allright, well it's a bit complex, but basically:
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23:36 askhader: tewk: Address of cstruct?
23:36 Kevin_: say you wanted to write a program in which a server send out instant updates to mobile devices
23:36 Kevin_: so for example, like push email
23:36 Kevin_: specifically, it's a mobile banking application
23:37 Kevin_: so basically, a user would get an update or a message whenever the account balance is less that $100 or something
23:38 Kevin_: Is there some sort of architecture or something involved in this?
23:38 Kevin_: I was looking at CORBA
23:38 Kevin_: and it seemed like it was kind of relevant
23:38 Kevin_: http://www.omg.org/gettingstarted/corbafaq.htm#HowWork
23:40 askhader: Well I haven't heard of one but my experience is limited. Give the channel some time, it's not always instantly reactive to activity.
23:40 Kevin_: what do you guys think?
23:40 Kevin_: no problem
23:40 Kevin_: I don't actually plan on making this, you see
23:41 Kevin_: and I'm not very well versed in computer scienece
23:41 Kevin_: this is simply for an assignment I have haha
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23:41 askhader: Well another problem is that I'm not sure what kind of an answer you're looking for. Do you want an algorithm to solve this type of problem?
23:42 askhader: Or a specific implementation of this sort of thing?
23:43 Kevin_: well, I'm not too sure on the whole thing. Basically, I need to explain in more depth how it works. I can't just say "the server pushes messages to the phone"
23:44 askhader: So your server needs to be aware of which phone maps to which account.
23:44 askhader: or vice versa, actually.
23:44 Kevin_: yes
23:45 askhader: Also, your implementation would need a specific protocol for which the data can be transferred.
23:45 Kevin_: I'm sorry, what do you mean by "specific protocol"
23:45 askhader: The internet, for example.
23:46 askhader: Well the internet is a series of communication protocols.
23:46 Kevin_: ah, yes
23:46 Kevin_: I understand
23:46 Kevin_: I think I remember reading about that
23:46 Kevin_: would IIOP be one?
23:46 askhader: IMAP - Internet Message Access Protocol might be a place to start
23:46 askhader: Sure
23:47 Kevin_: but this protocol
23:47 Kevin_: it has to be able to send not just text
23:47 askhader: Is that so?
23:47 Kevin_: actually
23:48 Kevin_: I suppose it could just be text
23:48 askhader: Well there are solutions to all these problems.
23:48 askhader: After you've dealt with data transfer you might want to look at ways by which the server checks accounts efficiently.
23:49 Kevin_: so how it searches through accounts?
23:49 askhader: Although I've never worked on such a system (nor studied, I'm still in my early years of Computer Science), one naive solution would be to just check each account indefinitely. Although for large banks this can become problematic.
23:49 askhader: Sure, searching through accounts is a big part of the problem. If you want to get into it.
23:49 Kevin_: the way I see it in my head is:
23:49 Kevin_: all the accounts are constantly being monitored
23:49 Kevin_: suddenly
23:50 Kevin_: the bank sees "oh, this guy's balance is low. I need to send him a message"
23:50 askhader: Consider the following.
23:50 askhader: It may be near impossible for your server to be aware of all your accounts at the same time, but if you introduce a few 'rules` into your program then you can make assumptions that simplifies the problem.
23:50 askhader: For example.
23:52 askhader: If you create a new paramter associated with each bank account, let's call it 'notified' then you can just do the following. If a transaction takes place, check if the balance is less than 100. Yes? Check if 'notified' is TRUE - if not, notify the user and set NOTIFY to true.
23:52 askhader: Otherwise, do nothing.
23:52 Kevin_: ah, makes sense
23:53 askhader: And if the balance goes above 100, set notified to FALSE
23:53 Kevin_: and then basically do that to each account?
23:53 askhader: Nope, just when a transaction takes place.
23:53 Kevin_: ah, yes
23:54 askhader: of course you must set the `notified` variable accordingly when an account is created.
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23:54 Kevin_: but how would a bank know when a transaction has taken place?
23:55 Kevin_: so lets say somebody swipes their debit card somewhere
23:55 askhader: A bank knows when activity happens.
23:55 askhader: It's the primary function of a bank.
23:55 Kevin_: haha, yeah I suppose
23:55 askhader: But it all comes down to changes in the account.
23:56 askhader: So you want to define a data type
23:56 askhader: Call it an 'account'
23:56 askhader: An account has the following fields (maybe more)   client-name   balance   notified
23:56 askhader: Oh and  mobile-number
23:56 askhader: If balance changes, a transaction took place? =]
23:57 askhader: And a bank keeps a list of accounts, presumably sorted somehow.
23:57 Kevin_: ok, I see
23:58 Kevin_: what this was ultimately leading up to is that:
23:58 Kevin_: 1. you have an app on your phone
23:58 Kevin_: 2. you make a transaction
23:59 Kevin_: 3. a notification is automatically sent to that app detailing the transaction
23:59 askhader: The complexity of this problem depends on the tools at your disposal.