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01:32 ttuttle: hey, how (in racket's class system) can I declare a method that is visible in subclasses, but not accessible outside the class and subclasses?
01:41 jonrafkind: protected methods?
01:41 jonrafkind: theres some slightly annoying way to do it
01:42 jonrafkind: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/createclass.html?q=class#(form._((lib._racket/private/class-internal..rkt)._define-local-member-name))
01:42 jonrafkind: which forces you to define all the classes in the same scope
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04:24 lajla: PascalHunger, of course you do, the JVM and Java after all is evil
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05:59 PascalHunger: lajla: hmmm?
06:00 PascalHunger: lajla: i take your a java fan
06:00 lajla: PascalHunger, because I call it evil?
06:01 lajla: You'd expect that I'm the inverse then
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08:43 bleakgadfly: Java is the only language I have tried where I Have been so annoyed with the debugging interpretation that I have actually stopped using it (or any JVM-based languages - Clojure)
08:54 lajla: bleakgadfly, well, to be honest, Hikey raised a valid point saying 'It's okay to hate Java but not the JVM.', they are two different things, I just happen to hate both.
08:54 lajla: But in the end, he is right that the JVM is to some extend a state of the art virtual machine that took a lot of work out of his hands.
08:54 lajla: The problem is that the JVM was never designed for what he wanted to do and he had to make huge concessions to run on it.
08:55 lajla: Most importantly the lack of TCO.
08:55 lajla: Which is why I would find a virtual machine geared towards running functional languages, specifically accomodating TCO an interesting idea.
09:02 lajla: Well, I don't hate the JVM.
09:02 lajla: It was just never designed towards functional languages, it does what it's supposed to do.
09:02 lajla: Run Java bytecode
09:02 lajla: and java bytecode was never designed for functional languages.
09:03 lajla: As was assembly of course.
09:06 bleakgadfly: My problem mainly is with debugging
09:06 bleakgadfly: Everytime something went wrong, no matter how small a thing, I got 30 lines of errors
09:07 bleakgadfly: I dislike Java the language because I feel like I am writing an essay even for the smallest application
09:07 lajla: bleakgadfly, but look how portable, robust and scalable it is!
09:08 lajla: I don't know, I dislike java and the C-like static type system so much that I never got to that point.
09:09 bleakgadfly: Clojure was the first Lisp-like languaged I became fond of, but I just couldn't deal with the JVM anymore. And that is how I found Racket :)
09:10 bleakgadfly: Clojure also have a external packaging system, which I wouldn't call stable - but Racket have it integrated which is *awesome* imho.
09:12 lajla: Hmm
09:13 lajla: I really like the fact that in clojure, you can also apply vectors and sets and all.
09:13 lajla: I for long wanted that in lisp you could just index by (random-vector k)
09:13 lajla: Instead of having to use vector-ref.
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09:13 lajla: And that this could be generalized to all sequences basically.
09:13 bleakgadfly: I have no problem with Clojure, the language itself.
09:13 lajla: bleakgadfly, well, I do, because it doesn't have TCO.
09:13 bleakgadfly: It's the way it is implemented which annoys me
09:13 bleakgadfly: TCO?
09:14 lajla: Tail call optimization
09:14 bleakgadfly: Have you ever tried languages like Erlang and Haskell?
09:15 lajla: bleakgadfly, sure.
09:15 lajla: I know my way around haskell and Ocaml
09:15 lajla: Who also have TCO and all.
09:16 bleakgadfly: I gave Erlang a try, but I couldn't really enjoy it as much as I did while in Lisp-like languages.
09:16 lajla: I agree.
09:16 lajla: I am not a fan of static typing.
09:17 lajla: But I have to say that parametric polymorphization combines almost the full power of dynamic typing with the static checks of static typing.
09:17 lajla: But I'm not sure if I'm okay with static checks to begin with.
09:17 lajla: It's a 'guilty until proven innocent' system more often than not.
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14:14 manitoba98: Hey: I want to be able to have check-expect statements whose values are evaluated at the point in the code where the check-expect appears, rather than when (test) is called. Is there a way that I can do this? (If there's some other macro I must use instead of check-expect, that's OK.)
14:14 manitoba98: Essentially, I want to be able to do this: http://pastebin.ca/1958768
14:16 manitoba98: Could I, for instance, write a macro that expands to a pair of defines and a check-expect of those identifiers (whose names would presumably be auto-generated)?
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