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00:13 Lajla: ((address emma) (sentence (not (is (extra-clause (unless (want people (read (like this)))))))))
00:21 jonrafkind: thats highly readable
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02:07 Lajla: jonrafkind, I
02:08 Lajla: 'd say, most would say not.
02:08 Lajla: But that's because they are weaklins
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04:28 naryl: Hello. I have a question about racket. Is there a way to update a module in a running system?
04:29 naryl: For example, I have a running program. I found a bug, fixed it in the source and need to reload the fixed module. Is there a way to do it without restarting the interpreter and the whole system?
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09:31 samth: tewk, ping
09:48 naryl: samth:
09:50 samth: naryl, ?
10:08 naryl: Sorry if you seen my question but i'll repeat.
10:08 naryl: Is there a way to load an updated module at runtime?
10:09 samth: take a look at `enter!' in the documentation
10:10 samth: jay-mccarthy, ping
10:10 chandler: rudybot: doc enter!
10:10 rudybot: chandler: your racket sandbox is ready
10:11 rudybot: chandler: no docs for a current binding, but provided by: racket/enter, racket/init
10:11 naryl: ok, did you know google still gives better results if you ask for plt-scheme instead of racket? :)
10:11 chandler: rudybot: eval (require racket/enter)
10:11 chandler: rudybot: doc enter!
10:11 rudybot: chandler: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/enter.html#(form._((lib._racket%2Fenter..rkt)._enter!))
10:13 naryl: Just what I need. Thank you.
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10:48 walter: gello
10:48 walter: i ve got a question
10:48 walter: hello*
10:49 walter: somebody here?
10:49 (nick) walter -> Guest15785
10:49 Guest15785: huhu?
10:49 Guest15785: xD
10:49 Guest15785: (let count((counter 1))(if (> counter 10)(display "fertig!")(begin(display counter)(display "...")(count(+ counter 1)))))
10:50 Guest15785: is count a method?
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11:14 offby1: racket doesn't (typically) have "methods"
11:15 offby1: just functions, numbers, strings, etc
11:16 offby1: in this case, count is a function -- you're looking at what's called a "named let"
11:16 offby1: oh, he left :-|
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16:03 clklein: What's the name of the parameter controlled by the "Output Style" option in DrRacket's language selection dialog?
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16:34 samth: clklein, there isn't really one, i think
16:35 samth: but print-as-expression is part of it
16:36 clklein: You mean it sets print-as-expression and also sets stuff you can't otherwise set?
16:39 samth: no, i mean print-as-expression controls the 'construct-style printing' setting
16:40 samth: and the display vs write setting is basically chosen by calling one of them
16:40 samth: although you can change 'current-print'
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17:26 tewk: samth: pong
17:29 samth: tewk, i was going to ask you the question i asked on the list
17:29 samth: but also, is what i said about remembered sets right?
17:31 tewk: Yes
17:31 tewk: more precise remembered sets require more frequent and precise write barriers
17:36 samth: ah, ok
17:36 samth: so that seems like it will add a lot of additonal overhead to minor collections
17:38 samth: does the write barrier record if the write pointed to the nursery?
17:48 tewk: We would also have to instrument all the c code with write barriers.
17:50 samth: right, i understand why you don't do that
17:50 tewk: whether it pointed to the nursery isn't helpful to our current write barrier, since only the first write to a page causes a page protect trap,  we don't get trapped for subsequent writes to a unprotected page.
17:51 samth: ah, that makes sense
17:51 samth: so every pointer in every mutated page has to be traced on every minor collection?
17:51 tewk: yes
17:52 tewk: Matthew made a very good point to me yesterday.
17:53 tewk: He said functional code may have few mutations, but the manner in which that functional code is compiled may produce lots of mutations.
17:54 samth: that's certainly true for haskell-style code
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17:54 tewk: mutation at the lowest levels is often needed for performance.
17:56 tewk: fine grain write barrier and remembered sets, might be a win for us.
17:56 tewk: Unfortunately the cost of performing that experiment is really big.
18:09 samth: yes,
18:09 samth: first we'd want to rewrite a *lot* of the existing runtime out of C
18:09 chandler: I wonder if anyone's done work on not tenuring frequently-modified objects.
18:11 tewk: chandler: do you mean popular objects. Suns Garbage First paper talks about that optimzation
18:13 chandler: I'm not sure that's the same thing as popular objects, at least not in a mostly-functional environment.
18:15 jonrafkind: felix talked about some popular objects in larceny at one point
18:15 samth: tewk, chandler, Felix Klock has done work with popular objects in his collector
18:15 jonrafkind: heh
18:16 chandler: Perhaps I'm not understanding what you mean by "popular objects".
18:17 chandler: As I understand it, a popular object may be infrequently or never modified.
18:17 chandler: On the other hand, an object that doesn't qualify as popular may be very frequently modified.
18:18 jonrafkind: i thought popular just meant it had a lot of links to it from other objects
18:19 chandler: That's what I thought too, so I'm not sure why it's (directly) relevant to what I asked.
18:21 tewk: I was confused, don't listen to me.
18:22 chandler: Oh. I know only a little about modern garbage collectors, so I figured that I was missing something.
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