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07:29 rmitt: a couple of questions: 1) Can Racket read/write to disk one bit at a time (like a read-bit or write-bit)?
07:29 rmitt: 2) Is define-syntax in some way to be preferred over defmacro?
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08:17 vu3rdd: I am trying out DrRacket. I generally use emacs. Is there a way in drracket to make the repl window follow emacs key bindings?
08:17 vu3rdd: C-a default seem to be select all
08:17 vu3rdd: and C-e removed repl window
08:17 vu3rdd: any help will be appreciated
08:20 samth: rmitt, `define-syntax' is strongly preferred over `define-macro'
08:21 samth: vu3rdd, you can use emacs keybindings in drracket
08:21 samth: let me see if i can remember the setting
08:22 samth: vu3rdd, go to edit/preferences
08:22 vu3rdd: ok
08:22 samth: then to the editing tab
08:22 samth: then to the general tab in that
08:23 samth: and uncheck "enable keybindings in menus"
08:23 vu3rdd: samth: great! thanks
08:24 vu3rdd: another doubt
08:24 samth: vu3rdd, there's some docs about the keybindings here: http://docs.racket-lang.org/drracket/Keyboard_Shortcuts.html?q=keybindings#%28idx._%28gentag._150._%28lib._scribblings/drracket/drracket..scrbl%29%29%29
08:24 (notice) rudybot: http://tinyurl.com/38nc29d
08:25 vu3rdd: let us say, I have an expression in the repl, which is complete. Now if I move the cursor to edit something and press return, the repl doesnot eval the expression, instead the rest of the charactors of the expr goes to the next line.
08:26 samth: yes
08:26 vu3rdd: if I press enter at the end of the line, it evals fine. is there a way to change this behavior
08:26 samth: it only submits if you are at the end of the text
08:26 samth: no, there's no way to change this
08:27 vu3rdd: samth: Oh.. ok.
08:27 vu3rdd: thanks for the link. Will look at it
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08:48 vu3rdd: if I don't use drracket and instead the commandline mzscheme program, how do I set #lang options? Is it by (require lang/base) or (require r5rs) ?
08:49 vu3rdd: Looks like that works..
08:53 samth: i'm not sure what you mean by '#lang options'
09:13 vu3rdd: samth: I meant the #lang setting one use in the top window to get different language levels
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09:39 samth: vu3rdd, the repl doesn't have language levels in quite the same way, since the #lang is creating a module
09:39 samth: if you want to do that w/o using drracket, you probably want to create a file that starts with #lang racket (or #lang something else)
09:40 samth: and then `require' that from the repl
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09:55 vu3rdd: samth: Ok. thanks
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10:19 Somelauw: I installed plt-scheme by the software centre, but it seems like it's outdated. Should I download a newer release from the website?
10:26 samth: Somelauw, yes, I recommend installing the current release
10:30 Somelauw: It has a release for ubuntu-jaunty. Will that still work on lucid lynx?
10:31 Somelauw: Also do I need to uninstall the previous version?
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10:56 samth: Somelauw, it will work on lucid
10:56 samth: it's probably easier to uninstall
10:57 Somelauw: Also, is there any way I can install it from the software center? (I'm using ubuntu)
10:57 Somelauw: Otherwise, how would you install it by aptitude/apt-get etcetera?
11:00 samth: no, there's no current ubuntu package
11:00 samth: you should follow the instructions on the download page
11:02 Somelauw: It asks me where to install it? Should I install it in /usr or /usr/local?
11:06 samth: that's up to you
11:07 Somelauw: I don't understand the difference.
11:07 Somelauw: Some website says /usr/local is for local files.
11:07 Somelauw: But I don't know what they mean by that.
11:08 Somelauw: I wonder what is the most clean way to install it.
11:08 samth: the most clean is to install it in place
11:08 samth: when it asks if you want a 'unix-style' install, say no
11:08 samth: and it will install everything in one directory
11:08 Somelauw: in place? (In my downloads folder?)
11:08 samth: you can pick the directory
11:12 Somelauw: But I do want to target the bin folder somehow such that I can rub it by typing drscheme, without having to navigate to some folder.
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11:21 tewk: We should really build a deb, get it in debian, and provide a ubuntu ppa archive.
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13:46 jonrafkind: clklein, can you send me an example redex system implementing a type system?
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14:00 Somelauw: I downloaded it and I wonder whether something happened to fold and reduce.
14:03 jonrafkind: what are you referring to
14:03 Somelauw: reduce and fold don't seem to work
14:04 jonrafkind: can you show some code?
14:05 Somelauw: (reduce compose2 values funcs)
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14:08 Somelauw: I figured out I had to import srfi/1.
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14:18 clklein: jonrafkind: Sure.
14:18 jonrafkind: ok
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14:34 clklein: jonrafkind: sent
14:35 jonrafkind: werd
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14:38 eli: tewk: BTW, "~n" is old-ism, "\n" is better.
14:40 jonrafkind: eli, did you look at my recent generator changes?
14:41 eli: jonrafkind: Not yet.  I know I should, and maybe it's time to add the arguments now -- do you have an opinion?
14:42 eli: (The danger being some old (generator (+ 1 2)) code which gets horribly confused with `+' becoming an argument.)
14:42 jonrafkind: how would that break since you need to do (generator () (+ 1 2)) anyway?
14:43 jonrafkind: if you leave out the () it will issue an error
14:43 eli: Suppose I have (define x (generator (+ 1 2))) -- it runs fine in 4.2.5.
14:43 eli: I'm lazy so I don't upgrade frequently.
14:43 eli: Then I upgrade to 5.0.3, and get a baffling error.
14:43 jonrafkind: yea, so thats the status as of right now
14:43 jonrafkind: i thought you were happy with that?
14:44 jonrafkind: oh you mean that now it issues a warning on ()
14:44 eli: I added the () in to make it less problematic.
14:44 jonrafkind: but if you just have (generator (+ 1 2) more stuff) then (+ 1 2) will be arguments
14:44 jonrafkind: ok
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14:44 eli: The question is whether you think enough time has passed.
14:44 jonrafkind: well, honestly i have no idea. my feeling is just to go ahead and make the change
14:44 eli: ok
14:47 jonrafkind: also can you clean up the ugly hack to get the generator state
14:47 jonrafkind: i forgot exactly in what way to clean it up, but maybe you can see it quickly
15:00 jonrafkind: clklein, that type system is really simple :)
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16:09 clklein: jonrafkind: Yes, but it shows how to translate syntax-directed inference rules into a meta-function.
16:09 jonrafkind: ya
16:09 clklein: I'll send a more complicated one.
16:11 clklein: But the key part is that you turn each premise into a `where' clause.
16:11 jonrafkind: right
16:12 jonrafkind: most type systems are just a page of these sorts of rules
16:12 jonrafkind: shouldnt a dependant type system be just as simple?
16:13 clklein: The additional twist is that you need to decide term equality, e.g., that Vec(7) is the same type as Vec(3 + 4)
16:13 jonrafkind: so i need an evaluator for the type checker??
16:14 clklein: Yea, the term checker needs to be able to tell when two expressions are equivalent (because it needs to know when two types are the same, but types depend on expressions)
16:14 jonrafkind: so maybe types can only depend on some sort of primitive expression form?
16:14 jonrafkind: something without function calls maybe?
16:15 mario-goulart: #c
16:16 mario-goulart: oops
16:16 clklein: Yes, you need to rule out non-terminating expressions somehow.
16:16 jonrafkind: yes, agda somehow ensures termination
16:17 clklein: right
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16:17 clklein: If you're curious, you should check out Ch. 2 of ATTAPL.
16:18 jonrafkind: is that pierces book?
16:19 clklein: He's the editor, but the chapters are contributed by various people.
16:20 clklein: It assumes you've read roughly the first half of TAPL
16:20 jonrafkind: im sure these books exist somewhere
16:20 clklein: Matthew might have them
16:21 clklein: your library definitely will
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16:23 clklein: jonrafkind: Sent a more complicated model.
16:23 jonrafkind: ok
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17:24 noelw: Hi
17:30 jonrafkind: hi
17:34 noelw: To what music should I code? This is a pressing question?
17:34 noelw: (Answer to q2: yes, it is.)
17:36 jonrafkind: di.fm
17:37 jonrafkind: mplayer http://88.191.69.43:6104
17:40 tewk: unused looks to be related to safe-for-space
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20:13 faure: anyone know of a good blog engine written in racket?
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21:20 em: If someone asked, "What is it about Racket that makes it a uniquely good language for creating other languages?" what would you say to them?
21:50 offby1: I'd say "mu"
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22:04 clklein: em: That's an interesting question. I suggest asking on the mailing list.
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