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00:08 offby1: Lajla: not sure what you mean -- "unbound symbol" sounds like it'd be an error in any scheme
00:08 offby1: rudybot: eval frotz
00:08 rudybot: offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready
00:08 rudybot: offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: frotz in module: 'program
00:25 Lajla: offby1, I mean at compile time already.
00:25 Lajla: Not at runtime
00:26 Lajla: I mean, it complanes if you run a program that has free variables.
00:26 Lajla: Wbich is annoying because you might want to run a partially completed program.
00:27 offby1: Lajla: can you give an example?
00:29 Lajla: offby1: http://codepad.org/0pyO0leL
00:31 offby1 looks
00:31 offby1: Lajla: I think mzscheme has acted that way forever.
00:32 offby1: But DrScheme has a bunch of languages built in; it's possible that some of them don't complain about that unbound identifier.
00:32 offby1: you can just say (define (function-call! . args) #t) or something.
00:32 Lajla: offby1, well, I guess there's a switch at some point
00:32 offby1: not that I can remember
00:32 Lajla: offby1, sure, that's what I do now.
00:33 Lajla: But on PLT, or at least my old version which I hadn't updated in ages, I guess I found a way to turn this off but forgot
00:34 Lajla: I also kind of wonder what happens if you update the environment in some shrewd trick with eval.
00:35 Lajla: offby1, but you seem like a girl to me that thinks PHP is the msot elegant language in existence, amirite?
00:35 offby1: wow, 0 for 2
00:40 Lajla: offby1, which is the second?
00:40 Lajla: But you do like COBOL, don't you?
00:41 Lajla: Or ADD 1 TO COBOL GIVING COBOL?
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06:45 bremner: Lajla: I'm not really familiar with pre-racket plt. There is certainly a large number of commits in version control, so _something_ must be new :).
06:46 Lajla: bremner, hmm, you're that new?
06:46 Lajla: I always thught you did this longer than I.
06:46 Lajla: rudybot: eval (+ 1 2 3)
06:46 rudybot: Lajla: your sandbox is ready
06:46 rudybot: Lajla: ; Value: 6
06:47 Lajla: Ohh, all people have their own sandbox and can edit its environment?
06:47 bremner: Lajla: I'm very new. I have some narrow expertise in building racket, but that is pretty much it.
06:47 Lajla: rudybot: (define (factorial n) (apply * (range 1 n)))
06:47 rudybot: Lajla: that will open a file for you to program a factorial in python
06:48 Lajla: In python?
06:50 Lajla: bremner, ahhh
06:51 Lajla: and a schemer before racket?
06:51 bremner: Haskeller
06:51 bremner: Oz'er, if  that is even a category
06:51 Lajla: bremner, ahh, the enemy.
06:51 bremner: I have met the enemy, and he is me.
06:51 Lajla blows himself up cloe to bremner to gain 70 virgins in the paradise.
06:52 Lajla: bremner, he is I*
06:52 Lajla: Let us maintain the grace of Queen's English
06:52 bremner: recent translations suggest it might be raisins and not virgins
06:54 Lajla: bremner, actually, there is ltitle about it in the Quraan aparently.
06:54 Lajla: It's mostly a myth originated in the west.
06:55 Lajla: THat is why the number always changes, 70, 40, 700, 42
06:55 Lajla: Also, the Hebrews and Arabians of those days did not have a decimal number system, so..
06:55 (nick) Gwyth` -> Gwyth
06:56 bremner: "We have met the enemy and he is us."  Walt Kelly
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08:24 Spewns: in building a racket gui, if i have two panes side by side, how can i allow them to be resized relative to each other with the mouse? like you can in drracket with the definitions, interactions, log, etc.
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10:17 Lajla: bremner, do you like Raquet more than Haskell?
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10:42 offby1: .oO("Raquet"?)
10:43 offby1: Lajla: remember to say "eval", otherwise rudybot thinks you're just chatting, and responds accordingly (which is to say: randomly)
10:44 bremner: Lajla: I haven't really formed an opinion yet.
10:45 Lajla: offby1, ahhh
10:45 Lajla: offby1, it sounds more classy
10:45 offby1: It sure does!  I'd pay $75 more for Raquet
10:46 Lajla: offby1, dollars, pff.
10:46 Lajla: Real men pay with French euros
10:47 mgummelt: Hi, I'm trying to compile racket without graphical support.  I don't want drracket or gracket.  configuring with --disable-gracket  results in an error when I make install.  It seems like it's still trying to reference drracket
10:49 mgummelt: Does anyone know how to compile without graphical support?
10:50 stamourv: mgummelt: what error did make install give you?
10:50 mgummelt: match: no matching clause for (list (list (cc '(#<path:drracket>) #<path:/usr/local/lib/racket/collects/drracket> "drracket" #<procedure:info?> #<path:/usr/local/lib/racket/collects> #<path:/usr/local/lib/racket/collects/info-domain/compiled/cache.rktd> '((lib "drracket") 1 0)) #<pa...
10:51 stamourv: what version are you compiling? 5.0, git?
10:52 mgummelt: git
10:52 stamourv: ok, let me give it a try
10:54 stamourv: while I'm trying that, when did it give that error, what output do you see before
11:01 mgummelt: ah, sorry, one sec
11:05 offby1: might be useful to know the SHA1 ID of the commit that mgummelt is working on
11:06 mgummelt: 14de7399bd592b76899acc00611b47952c9ce90d
11:06 mgummelt: most recent commit
11:07 offby1: I hate that "git show" doesn't include the time zone when displaying the commit's time.
11:11 mgummelt: also note, I'm configuring with --enable-shared
11:12 stamourv: I don't think enable shared would change anything
11:12 stamourv: I'm compiling with --disable-gracket, but not --enable-shared, we'll see what happens
11:12 mgummelt: alright, thanks
11:12 mgummelt: I'm trying 5.0 in parallel right now to see if that works
11:12 stamourv: ok
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11:45 stamourv: mgummelt: my no-gracket build is building documentation, and I didn't see the error you mentioned
11:47 mgummelt: I guess it's platform-specific
11:48 mgummelt: 5.0 just built for me
11:48 mgummelt: and installed
11:48 stamourv: what platform did you see the error on?
11:48 stamourv: I'm on linux x86 32
11:51 mgummelt: linux x86 64
11:52 mgummelt: but it could be requiring some dependency that I don't have that the configure script didn't catch
11:53 stamourv: could be, but the error message indicates otherwise
12:04 mgummelt: stamourv: here is the full error
12:04 mgummelt: raco setup: made: compiler/commands raco setup: made: dynext raco setup: made: dynext/private match: no matching clause for (list (list (cc '(#<path:browser>) #<path:/usr/local/lib/racket/collects/browser> "browser" #<procedure:info?> #<path:/usr/local/lib/racket/collects> #<path:/usr/local/lib/racket/collects/info-domain/compiled/cache.rktd> '((lib "browser") 1 0)) #<path:b...   === context === /usr/local/lib/racket/collects/racket
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12:05 mgummelt: stamourv: more readable here http://codepaste.net/91zwqj
12:07 stamourv: and you got that on git, but not on 5.0?
12:09 mgummelt: yes
12:09 stamourv: actually, it kind of looks like an error with the parrallel build
12:09 stamourv: how many cores on that machine?
12:09 stamourv: mine has just one, so that may be why I didn't see it
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12:16 clklein: Lajla: Late reply to your question from 12 hours ago... I think you want #lang racket/load
12:16 clklein: That won't let complain about free variables, and you're free to "update the environment in some shrewd trick with eval"
12:17 Lajla: clklein, je t'aime.
12:17 Lajla: THis also works with #lang r5rs/load right?
12:18 clklein: I don't know that language but that sounds right, based on the name.
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12:19 Lajla: clklein, doesn't recognise it. =(
12:31 Gwyth: I am just starting on Racket.  There is difference between how DrRacket echoes things and how same version linked to emacs (which I use) echoes them.  E.g., guide.pdf pg. 51 says (list 'here (srcloc "file.rkt" 1 0 1 8) 'there) will be printed just as I typed it, and DrRacket does.  But same Racket v5.0 linked to emacs prints it as (here #(struct:srcloc "file.rkt" 1 0 1 8) there).  Does anyone know why the difference?
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12:41 offby1: Gwyth: I think the second form is more traditional, but the first form is easier for newbies.
12:41 offby1: And I guess they made DrRacket newbie-friendly.
12:42 offby1: I'm 98% sure there's a setting in DrRacket to control how it displays stuff; there is probably a corresponding way of tweaking the command-line version too.  (I'd guess it's a parameter.)
12:43 Gwyth: offby1: Thank you! I wasn't planning on using DrR much anyway, so it's okay how emacs shows it in light of your explanation.  I suspected there might be some parameter, but I wanted someone to confirm it.
12:44 offby1: I suspect it's "print-as-expression".
12:44 offby1: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/Writing.html?q=print-as-expression#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._print-as-expression))
12:44 offby1: rudybot: doc print-as-expression
12:44 rudybot: offby1: not found in any library's documentation: print-as-expression
12:44 offby1 drums fingers
12:44 offby1: well, rudybot is a little outdated.
12:44 offby1: I really should get him on the latest racket release
12:45 Gwyth: Thanks! will look at the link.  Rudy needs to go to a re-education, though... ;-)
12:50 offby1: all it takes is some incentive on my part.
12:52 Gwyth is looking around for an incentive... ah...
12:54 offby1: nooo
12:54 offby1: not the club with nails
12:54 offby1: that'll mess up my 'do
12:55 Gwyth: :-)
12:55 offby1: if it makes you feel better, I'm building racket 5.0.1 as we speak; I'll give the "port" a whirl
12:55 clklein: Lajla: I think it wouldn't be too much work to write something like what you want yourself. You'd want something like collects/racket/load.rkt (the implementation of racket/load) but that uses the 'r5rs namespace instead of the 'scheme namespace. That file wraps every expression in the file with a call to eval.
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12:56 Gwyth is already feeling better, offby1...
12:58 clklein: Lajla: I might try to whip something together later. I'll let you know if I do.
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13:38 paul_stansifer_: Who administers the website?
13:38 paul_stansifer_: Whom should I warn if all the download links don't seem to work?
13:45 offby1: dunno, maybe the mailing list
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13:54 offby1: rudybot_: you're an impostor!
13:54 rudybot_: offby1: Perhaps whenever I botch it (which is often, since my browser mysteriously doesn't pre-fill the password field for me), they figure I'm an impostor, so they keep asking until I get it right a number of times in a row ...
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13:55 offby1: uh oh, I hurt his feelings
13:55 stamourv: paul_stansifer: eli's in charge, I believe
13:55 clklein: I think he just knew that there was no point staying with his cover blown.
13:56 clklein: Who would trust impostor rudybot to evaluate their expressions?
13:56 stamourv: paul_stansifer: but what do you mean the download links don't work
13:56 stamourv: I just tried, and it worked fine
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14:11 Gwyth: offby1: Apparently, print-as-expression that you pointed to was key to why print printed differently. My setup by default launched mzscheme, which has print-by-expression set to #f (and #t does not even seem to be available). I changed now from mzscheme to racket, and it has its default as #t (and both #t and #f available), and with #t the print looks as in guide.pdf.
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14:16 paul_stansifer_: stamourv: False alarm!  I think the problem was that I didn't restart Firefox after apt-get upgraded it.
14:17 stamourv: good
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19:38 eli: chandler: If you know of a good way, hopefully something tested, to get google to change its blurb then please mail me.
19:38 eli: (irc isn't too great since I'm wondering between places so I don't have my usual environment.)
19:39 chandler: eli: I have a link right here; I'll send it to you in an email.
19:39 eli: thanks!
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19:45 offby1: "I have the link right here; his name is Paul Revere ..."
19:46 chandler: See, if rudybot's random witticism function was even half that witty on occasion I wouldn't mind it.
19:47 chandler: eli: Sent.
19:52 eli: chandler: Ah -- I thought that they were completely ignoring the tags and use either dmoz entries or blurbs from the content.
19:53 chandler: I think they ignore the keywords tag but use the description tag if it meets some quality threshold.
19:54 eli: Re the two sentence thing -- did you see it fail with three?
19:54 chandler: I saw it fail with too long of a description. I didn't exhaustively experiment.
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19:55 chandler: I got the results I wanted when I kept the description to about the same length as the blurbs that Google automatically generates, and I replicated it in the body of the page.
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19:56 chandler: Even two sentences might be too long - look at the amount of text that Google puts in most page blurbs.
19:57 eli: Ah, good idea.
19:57 chandler: Something like "Racket is a programming language descended from Scheme that includes batteries and a programming environment." might work, if I had to make a suggestion.
19:57 eli: Do you know what's the turnaround time for changing it?
19:58 chandler: I don't know, sorry.
19:58 eli: (BTW, the "Racket is a programming language" thing did comeup on the list, and lead to much noise.)
19:58 eli: In any case, I betteer start some builds before I crash and burn.
19:59 eli: (It is *hot* and sticky.)
20:00 offby1 eagerly awaits the 5.0.1 binary, since his Xen slice is too memory-puny to build from source
20:01 chandler: Just how little memory does it have, offby1?
20:01 offby1: 500 Mb.  The problem is building the scribble docs.
20:01 offby1: I am pretty sure there's a way to skip those, since I don't need 'em; but I am too lazy to figure out what it is :)
20:02 chandler is a bit surprised that 512MB is too little.
20:02 chandler: I suppose it depends on what else you're running.
20:03 offby1: well, the build is _building_; it's just insanely slow, since it's paging like a (*&(*&$#
20:03 eli: offby1: try something like env: PLT_SETUP_OPTIONS="-D" make install
20:03 eli: It's a recent addition.
20:04 chandler: Whassat do?
20:04 eli: s/like env:/like: env/
20:04 eli: It should make the setup part get a -D which is the flag to avoid building the docs.
20:04 offby1: eli: aha!  I'll put that in my .bash_profile.
20:05 eli: Well, I'm not sure about making it  the default
20:05 eli: but it's certainly fine if you're waiting for an official build...
20:05 chandler: If you're going to run rudybot with that, won't that kill the doc thing?
20:06 offby1: eli: for the Xen box, it makes sense as a default, since the only thing I ever do with that box is run rudybot.
20:06 eli: It will probably do that.
20:06 offby1: oh.
20:06 offby1: well, let's see, anyway.
20:06 eli: You can try starting racket, and then type (help cons) or something.
20:06 eli: It's searching using the same index that rudybot is using, IIRC.
20:07 offby1: ok
20:07 eli mumbles something incomprehensible about in-laws and ACs.
20:08 offby1: seems to work
20:09 offby1: thanks!
20:09 (quit) rudybot: Remote host closed the connection
20:15 offby1: Now if only there were a corresponding way to tell racket not to build scribble docs when installing stuff from PLaneT
20:37 clklein: Lajla: Here's an implementation of r5rs/load: http://pastebin.com/DrVdLcYw
20:38 Lajla: clklein, \o/
20:39 Lajla: I had no idea one could do that with racket.
20:39 clklein: Shouldn't Dutch Racketeers be asleep?
20:39 Lajla: To be honest, I only use #lang r5rs / #lang r6rs, it's just a nother scheme compiler to me.
20:39 Lajla: clklein, they just woke up in this case
20:39 Lajla: from  3 hour sleep
20:40 Lajla: clklein, I had no idea that Calvin Klein had any programming skills
20:40 Lajla: I once had one of your boxors, but I lost it
20:42 clklein: Losing my boxers is a sign of great disrespect.
20:42 clklein: But I will forgive you this once.
20:43 clklein: Anyway, maybe this r5rs/load example will start to convince you to use #lang racket instead of one of those puny standards :)
20:44 Lajla: clklein, ah, but I am a calvinist, I work.
20:44 Lajla: Also, I dress black with black
20:44 Lajla: And I complain a lot.
20:44 Lajla: Evidently I am a Calvinist who does not believe in God.
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21:06 offby1: rudybot: eval (banner)
21:06 rudybot: offby1: ; Value: "Welcome to Racket v5.0.1.\n"
21:08 Lajla: rudybot, eval +
21:08 rudybot: Lajla: your sandbox is ready
21:08 rudybot: Lajla: ; Value: #<procedure:+>
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21:08 Lajla: rudybot, eval (define (factorial n) (apply * (range (+ n 1))))
21:09 offby1: ok, now eval (factorial 69)
21:09 Lajla: rudybot eal (factorial 3)
21:09 offby1: .oO("range"?)
21:09 offby1: rudybot: eval range
21:09 rudybot: offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: range in module: 'program
21:09 Lajla: rudybot, eval (factorial 3)
21:09 rudybot: Lajla: error: reference to undefined identifier: range
21:09 Lajla: Ahhh
21:09 Lajla: Well then
21:09 offby1: rudybot: eval (build-list 10 add1)
21:09 rudybot: offby1: ; Value: (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10)
21:09 offby1: rudybot: eval (apply * (build-list 10 add1))
21:09 rudybot: offby1: ; Value: 3628800
21:09 offby1: rudybot: eval (define factorial (lambda (n) (apply * (build-list n add1))))
21:10 offby1: rudybot: eval (factorial 69)
21:10 rudybot: offby1: ; Value: 171122452428141311372468338881272839092270544893520369393648040923257279754140647424000000000000000
21:10 offby1: not the cleanest way to do it, but it works
21:10 Lajla: offby1, you are my hero
21:10 offby1 blushes
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