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00:21 Lajla: jonrafkind, come on, take me on
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01:40 jonrafkind: ill have to find some
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02:41 Lajla: jonrafkind, just roll the click wheel till you have one.
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07:25 bremner wonders if Lajla was attacked by an iPod as a child
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11:12 rpr`: Mixing racket and r6rs languages has been a rough go.  I'm not sure it's worth trying to get my r6rs libraries to work or just go ahead and do a wholesale conversion to racket lang.  Anyone know the "plan" in the sense is racket moving more towards r6rs as the core convention or, as I suspect is the case, they "support" r6rs but racket the language/libraries/modules will evolve down another path?
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11:32 samth_away: rpr`, the latter
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11:49 rpr`: bodes for continuing with a wholesale conversion then. Thx
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14:14 Lajla: bremner, if you mean that my mother bought me one and I realized just how overrated and evil they were, sure.
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16:34 mudge: hello
16:34 mudge: i'm a new racket person
16:35 mudge: anybody here?
16:36 jonrafkind: yes
16:37 chandler: mudge: FYI, IRC is fundamentally asynchronous. Don't expect someone to respond right away or at all. Don't expect a response to "hello", either.
16:38 jonrafkind: but do expect hugs
16:39 mudge: thanks jonrafkind
16:39 mudge: jonrafking:  have you read the book The Scheme Programming language?
16:40 mudge: i'm wondering how applicable it is to Racket
16:40 jonrafkind: i dont recall reading it, but its probably applicable
16:40 jonrafkind: in that the book probably uses r5rs or something, and racket supports r5rs
16:40 mudge: right,  but i just want to use just plain Racket,  i wonder how applicable it is
16:41 mudge: but if*
16:41 mudge: how different is plain racket from r5rs
16:41 jonrafkind: im sure the basic concepts are still ok, some of the actual syntax may differ
16:41 mudge: okay
16:41 jonrafkind: if you are just learning then the differences will be subtle
16:41 chandler: THe latest version of TSPL describes R6RS.
16:41 chandler: It's an excellent text.
16:41 mudge: tspl?
16:42 jonrafkind: rofl
16:42 chandler: The Scheme Programming Language - the book you mentioned.
16:42 mudge: haha, oh yea
16:42 mudge: i thought you were talking about table spoons
16:42 jonrafkind: :)
16:42 chandler: jonrafkind: Don't assume that. TSPL covers advanced topics; you *will* run into differences between the Racket language and R6RS with it.
16:43 chandler: mudge: That said, if you want to read TSPL, you can easily follow along with Racket's R6RS mode.
16:43 jonrafkind: ok, but the semantics between r6rs and racket are the same, except for mutable pairs, I think
16:44 mudge: the racket website recommends reading the How to Design Programs book,  but that book was published in 2001,   has racket changed much?   i'm wondering what the best resources to use to learn racket
16:44 mudge: the website,  or any books
16:44 chandler: Modules? Exceptions? Bytevectors? And there are more subtle differences: what R6RS calls `letrec*', Racket calls `letrec', and what the R6RS calls `letrec' doesn't exist in Racket.
16:44 jonrafkind: htdp is pretty good
16:44 jonrafkind: yes, chandler, subtle differences
16:44 chandler: HtDP is a good text, but it's at a very different level than TSPL. The latter is better if you're already an experienced programmer and want a "straight into the deep end" introduction to Scheme.
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16:46 chandler: jonrafkind: Those aren't exactly subtle differences - especially since TSPL4 covers those topics in substantial detail!
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17:02 Lajla: chandler, what is the difference between letrec* and letrec in R5?
17:02 Lajla: R6*
17:03 chandler: (letrec ((x 1) (y x)) y) -> error. (letrec* ((x 1) (y x)) y) -> 1
17:03 Lajla: Ahhh
17:03 Lajla: Makes sense
17:04 Lajla: I take it the other way around goes wrong?
17:04 chandler: (letrec* ((x y) (y 1)) x) -> error, if that's what you're asking
17:04 chandler: Though one could certainly implement a reverse `letrec*'.
17:04 Lajla: chandler, and what if y is bound to some value in the outer environment?
17:05 chandler: Immaterial.
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21:22 Lajla: jonrafkind, do you have some already?
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21:24 jonrafkind: unreadable code?
21:24 jonrafkind: how about collects/setup/parallel-build.rkt
21:24 Lajla: jonrafkind, let me see.
21:24 jonrafkind: its not too bad, could be a little better
21:27 Lajla: jonrafkind, so what you say is that I am better han this?
21:27 jonrafkind: I said that?
21:28 Lajla: jonrafkind, well, you did say that if all people coded as I did then code would be more readable.
21:28 Lajla: And you implied that this code was unreadable, and that my code wasn't.
21:30 jonrafkind: i found your destructuring code fairly unreadable
21:31 jonrafkind: parallel-build.rkt isn't so bad because the author used library functions, which are always spelled out
21:31 Lajla: jonrafkind, what was my destructuring code?
21:31 Lajla: The pattern language?
21:31 jonrafkind: yea
21:31 Lajla: We live in two different worlds.
21:31 Lajla: We are but united by our hatred for coding by giving click wheels a spin.
21:32 jonrafkind: it seemed a bit esoteric to me
21:32 Lajla: Which most coders who don't dress in all white all the time would agree with.
22:05 Lajla: chandler, what do you think about the conspiracy theory that PLT SCheme changed its name to racket because the RNRS commite ordered a ceased and desist as it wasn't a strict superset of Scheme?
22:06 jonrafkind: its because obama named his latest dog 'scheme' and didn't want the most high profile scheme implementation interferring with google searches as that would deter young children from learning about the government (through a dog)
22:07 jonrafkind: obviously!
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22:08 Lajla: shkk, hailz
22:08 Lajla: jonrafkind, Racket is the most high profile?
22:08 jonrafkind: i guess
22:08 Lajla: I thought all real men used Guile or Icarus
22:09 shkk: Lajla, Hi Captain
22:09 jonrafkind: naw
22:09 Lajla: I should make a Scheme in C-- so that I can have TCO without the trampoline and have more performance.
22:09 Lajla: jonrafkind, you with me?
22:09 Lajla: shkk, you too.
22:10 jonrafkind: so c-- just gives you power over stack frames?
22:10 Lajla: jonrafkind, well, more than that.
22:10 Lajla: It supports TCO.
22:10 Lajla: Like, you can do jmp factorial(acc*n,n-1);
22:10 Lajla: Instead of return
22:10 chandler: You should do that. More code; less talk.
22:11 Lajla: If you use jmp instead of return you have TCO
22:12 Lajla: Well, why not.
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22:13 Lajla: chandler, I will name it in your honour, I will call it 'Yet Another Scheme Compiler that Chandler Told Someone to Make'
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23:07 Lajla: eli, did you just comment on my post on SO?
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